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01/15/2021 07:06:15 AM · #1
dunno if it's just me, but i don't like overly "created" / overly manipulated pictures - pictures where reality is removed...
for example a dog jumping over a moon, or a "salvador dali" type of picture, etc...

my personal position on this - i don't vote those images. i would like to give them 1, but that wouldn't be right..
01/15/2021 07:50:24 AM · #2
Originally posted by take-two:

my personal position on this - i don't vote those images. i would like to give them 1, but that wouldn't be right..

Why not?
Your opinion and vote are just as valid as anyone else's.

Message edited by author 2021-01-15 09:13:55.
01/15/2021 08:52:00 AM · #3
why do you dislike creation? why do you dislike manipulation? what is the role of reality in art? or do you think photography is not art?
01/15/2021 08:58:14 AM · #4
Originally posted by take-two:

dunno if it's just me, but i don't like overly "created" / overly manipulated pictures - pictures where reality is removed...
for example a dog jumping over a moon, or a "salvador dali" type of picture, etc...

my personal position on this - i don't vote those images. i would like to give them 1, but that wouldn't be right..

I respect every opinion but if something is permitted why don't give fantasy and creativity a chance?
01/15/2021 09:42:18 AM · #5
Of course photography is art and of course creativity is wonderful and of course some manipulation is acceptable/desirable...

But I prefer pictures that are mostly photography on this photography site, not wild software creations
01/15/2021 09:51:59 AM · #6
Originally posted by take-two:

Of course photography is art and of course creativity is wonderful and of course some manipulation is acceptable/desirable...

But I prefer pictures that are mostly photography on this photography site, not wild software creations


I can totally see your point. But another way to look at it, is , that even in Advanced the photo has to be made of photos that you have taken. [user]bearmusic[/user] will have to give you the stats, but I do remember several years ago him mentioning, that the SC had to go through 50+ odd RAW photos for 1 blue ribbon.

So they may seem like wild manipulations, and they are, but they are made up of photos that have been photographed , that in itself is outstanding work and ability.
SO maybe look at it that way?
01/15/2021 09:57:43 AM · #7
Originally posted by JulietNN:

So they may seem like wild manipulations, and they are, but they are made up of photos that have been photographed , that in itself is outstanding work and ability.

But it doesn't mean one has to appreciate the final product.

Message edited by author 2021-01-15 10:00:13.
01/15/2021 10:10:44 AM · #8
Originally posted by take-two:

Of course photography is art and of course creativity is wonderful and of course some manipulation is acceptable/desirable...

But I prefer pictures that are mostly photography on this photography site, not wild software creations


Curious if it is a case of you actually do not enjoy looking at these creations or if it is more a case that you do feel these creations are pushing the boundaries of the definition of a digital photograph?

I really love seeing extended editing creations by talented people on DPC such as ' . substr('https://www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('https://www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' gyaban and note not all his entries are extended editing.

Message edited by author 2021-01-15 10:11:07.
01/15/2021 10:21:59 AM · #9
Originally posted by take-two:

dunno if it's just me, but i don't like overly "created" / overly manipulated pictures - pictures where reality is removed...
for example a dog jumping over a moon, or a "salvador dali" type of picture, etc...

my personal position on this - i don't vote those images. i would like to give them 1, but that wouldn't be right..

This, IMO, is always a good page to read for a refresher some times. DPChallenge Voting Rules
01/15/2021 10:22:42 AM · #10
Originally posted by P-A-U-L:

[quote=take-two] Curious if it is a case of you actually do not enjoy looking at these creations or if it is more a case that you do feel these creations are pushing the boundaries of the definition of a digital photograph?

I really love seeing extended editing creations by talented people on DPC such as ' . substr('https://www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('https://www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' gyaban and note not all his entries are extended editing.


It's more about whether it's still actually photography...
Extended editing should be just that, not a licence to combine mediocre photos into a fantastical image.

Message edited by author 2021-01-15 10:23:29.
01/15/2021 10:31:33 AM · #11
Originally posted by take-two:

Originally posted by P-A-U-L:

[quote=take-two] Curious if it is a case of you actually do not enjoy looking at these creations or if it is more a case that you do feel these creations are pushing the boundaries of the definition of a digital photograph?

I really love seeing extended editing creations by talented people on DPC such as ' . substr('https://www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('https://www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' gyaban and note not all his entries are extended editing.


It's more about whether it's still actually photography...
Extended editing should be just that, not a licence to combine mediocre photos into a fantastical image.


btw I'm a big proponent of people voting however they want. I just like to explore people's assumptions, like when they think they know what photography is and isn't. I like the history and philosophy behind words and concepts.
01/15/2021 10:34:44 AM · #12
Originally posted by take-two:

Originally posted by P-A-U-L:

[quote=take-two] Curious if it is a case of you actually do not enjoy looking at these creations or if it is more a case that you do feel these creations are pushing the boundaries of the definition of a digital photograph?

I really love seeing extended editing creations by talented people on DPC such as ' . substr('https://www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('https://www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' gyaban and note not all his entries are extended editing.


It's more about whether it's still actually photography...
Extended editing should be just that, not a licence to combine mediocre photos into a fantastical image.


Thank you I was just curious and value your opinion. I guess the reason DPC has the different editing rule sets is to try and please everyone. Though having said that there are quite a number of entries to the extended editing challenges that are single images with virtually no editing. I also find that when it is a combination of multiple photos, the winning entries are usually comprised of excellent photographs. It is hard to rub a turd and turn it into a diamond. There are of course exceptions to this.
01/15/2021 10:42:30 AM · #13
Originally posted by posthumous:

I just like to explore people's assumptions, like when they think they know what photography is and isn't.

Potter Stewart - "I know it when I see it"
01/15/2021 10:55:26 AM · #14
Originally posted by take-two:

. . .
It's more about whether it's still actually photography...
Extended editing should be just that, not a licence to combine mediocre photos into a fantastical image.


This question is always interesting to me. I participate in a local camera club which, in turn, is part of a group of regional clubs. They have monthly digital competitions Sept-May. They used to have a category called "Creative" and another called "Pictorial". Rules were such that anything could be used in Creative - from in-camera work to composites - similar to Extended. Pictorial had generous editing rules but composites were not allowed (much as is the case here at DPC in Standard).

One of the "problems" from my perspective was that if a composite didn't "look fantastical", as you might call it, it had no place at all - it was not allowed in Pictorial and was virtually dismissed by the judges in Creative.

So [not in response to me - I never voiced my frustration] they renamed the Creative category and rewrote the guidelines and rules for both. They no longer disallow composites in Pictorial, and Creative became "Altered Reality". Here are brief quotations from the two category descriptions: "The primary distinction for the Altered Reality category is that the maker intends(and the viewer easily recognizes)that the image is not a representation of reality" and ". . . a clear effort to represent reality; this distinguishes the Pictorial category from Altered Reality."

If fantastical creations are not to your taste because, well, because you don't like fantasy (I'm not crazy about it myself but my granddaughter LOVES it!), I think it's fine to give a lower score to that type of creation. But it does kind of bother me to think that before you even view the entries you have made up your mind to dismiss any in which "reality has been removed" not because you don't like fantasy (or the macabre or bright and cheery Pollyanna or too slick or whatever) but because, effectively, you don't like the rule set under which the piece has been created.

Message edited by author 2021-01-15 10:57:17.
01/15/2021 11:56:53 AM · #15
Originally posted by Venser:

Originally posted by JulietNN:

So they may seem like wild manipulations, and they are, but they are made up of photos that have been photographed , that in itself is outstanding work and ability.

But it doesn't mean one has to appreciate the final product.


I agree, and I do not particularly like some things I see and then again, I love seeing some things I see, but I just gave a different point of view.

It is like brussel sprouts, you love them, you hate them and then there is middle of road.

Same with everything in life.
01/15/2021 12:07:35 PM · #16
I love seeing what people come up with in their brains!

Whether that is photographing a piece of paper in different ways (under Standard) or creating a new place or being or... whatever they can show me that I wouldn't have seen myself if I hadn't looked at their image.

I'm not fond of nudity just for the sake of nudity or any photo of snakes, but when they pop up, I vote them on their own merit according to the ruleset, not my disdain for them.

Everybody has their own stuff... :D

01/15/2021 01:38:31 PM · #17
we need a brussel sprouts challenge.
01/15/2021 01:49:57 PM · #18
I am totally with take-two on this point, but I do vote on those composite images. They don’t get extra points for the work involved, for how clever the editing was, or anything like that. It’s the end result that counts and I generally prefer more natural looking images. I am not against editing, but over-edited pictures in my voting often loose some points nevertheless. For me this site is still about digital PHOTOGRAPHY challenges and I also try to achieve the best result in camera directly, although I also do some editing afterwards.

Even if it is allowed in extended editing, it does not mean you have to go all they way (but please do if you want) and also does not mean I have to appreciate it. Luckily we have an open voting system.
01/15/2021 02:19:37 PM · #19
Originally posted by tnun:

we need a brussel sprouts challenge.

Yes please. Queue that one to run right after "Water Spots".
01/15/2021 03:54:14 PM · #20
Manipulating photography has been around since the beginning. Whether it is in the darkroom or digitally processed from raw on a computer, to me it is the same. I love photography and I love art and a combination of the two is wonderful. Photography, painting, sketching, drawing, writing, poetry etc., are all art forms. I have tried painting and drawing and I am not very good at either (I am envious of Lydia’s skill, lol). Sometimes I use photography to do the drawing for me so that I can make an art piece that in the end develops the image I have in my mind. Now, I know this is not everyone’s cup of tea, but so what, does it really matter. DPC allows digital art that uses “manipulated photographs” in a few challenges. Look at them or ignore them, vote on them if you want to, but don’t use voting to punish an image just because you don’t like manipulating photographs. There are some very talented photographers and artists on this site, and I applaud all of them.
01/15/2021 03:58:00 PM · #21
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by tnun:

we need a brussel sprouts challenge.

Yes please. Queue that one to run right after "Water Spots".

Extended editing ? ;-)
01/15/2021 04:08:52 PM · #22
Bring on the Brussels sprouts and water spots, I am sure they an be made into art :)
01/15/2021 04:49:07 PM · #23
Originally posted by tnun:

we need a brussel sprouts challenge.


LOL, believe it or not it had been suggested and added to the list of challenge suggestions in 2014! Be careful what you ask for ;-)
01/15/2021 04:51:20 PM · #24
Originally posted by grahamgator:

Look at them or ignore them, vote on them if you want to, but don’t use voting to punish an image just because you don’t like manipulating photographs.

Why not?
We are asked to vote on the image before us, an entirely subjective endeavour. If one doesn't like manipulating photographs, is it not their prerogative to vote accordingly?

Message edited by author 2021-01-15 16:51:53.
01/15/2021 05:19:17 PM · #25
Originally posted by tnun:

we need a brussel sprouts challenge.

There is actually one in the queue: it's been there for several years. I have, thus far, restrained myself from loading it into the breech. Is now the time? Hrmmmmmm :-)

ETA: I see Kirbic beat me to it :-)

Message edited by author 2021-01-15 17:19:54.
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