Critique? - DPChallenge Forums

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

08/09/2002 11:41:09 AM · #26

Hokie, your comment about a 'high school kid with a kodak' has given me an idea...

I wonder if those point-and-shoot disposable cameras are available with black and white or the C41 black and white film in them? Does anyone know?

My girlfriend teaches the 5th grade. I would be willing to buy a couple of these cameras for her to give to her kids to see what kind of photos come back...

Give the kid a camera... tell him/her to take it home and take a picture of anything they wanted to... I would love to see what comes back on that... I just hope the camera comes back... :)

Patella

Canon EOS-500D Rebel T1i

08/09/2002 11:44:30 AM · #27

First site on the search I did -- probably others that may be cheaper...

B&W disposable camera

hokie

Nikon D2X

08/09/2002 11:51:09 AM · #28

I have often said that folks here go into the voting process EXPECTING to find fault.

Guess what. You will succeed.

I have yet to see a perfect picture. Why? Because perfection to me may look like a cock-eyed yak to someone else.

What I wish more folks did was take a glass half full approach. Look for the effort in the photo.

If the person bothered to get on a knee that tells me they were looking for an advantageous angle.

If a blown out highlight is there is it being used to support an idea? Or maybe to allow for shadows to reveal details.

What about partial subjects? If I see a person tried to edit their subject and compose a section I assume they are trying to emphasize something.

What about depth of field. Look for foreground, subject ground, mid ground and background cues. There are infinite planes to depth of field. How does the person use this to express themselves.

Lens flares might be intentionally left in to add some drama or perspective. Photoshop actually has entire sections of filters built in to do this..I don't understand why folk look at these as faults if they add perspective.

Photos are often like little movies. Not all are jsut monologues.

That means that there may be supporting cast members that work with the star to make the photo complete. It may take some time invested to examine all the elements or supporting cast and their relstionship to each other.

I don't know...it's hard work finding beauty outside your normal preferences. Not every photo is as obvious as Pamela Anderson :-)

sjgleah

Olympus C-2100UZ

08/09/2002 11:52:58 AM · #29

The local "Borders" bookstore had an exhibit of pictures taken digitally and then Photoshop'd by a group of middle school students on campus. Pretty interesting stuff. I'll find out if there is a website that goes along with this.

sjgleah

lisae

Olympus C-720UZ

08/09/2002 11:58:26 AM · #30

I've often wondered what DPC voters would think of Tracey Moffat's work, eg. this photo or this one. She's currently my favourite photographer. Most of her work is very narrative and filmic (she's also a filmmaker).

hokie

Nikon D2X

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

08/09/2002 12:07:49 PM · #31

Well, I will say this. If I saw either one of those entered here I would probably rate the baby a 5 and the Beach scene a 6.

I don't want anyone to think that what I am saying is never be critical. I would rather people say "That just doesn't turn me on" versus a bunch of technical reasons why a photo isn't any good.

Rules are meatn to be broken and photos are meant to say what YOU are saying.

Sometimes I don't type so well. I can't type as fsast as I can think and I get behind. But my idea is the same even with the typos and such. But many people may dismiss what I say if they see a typo.

I sometimes think people judge photos the same way.

Nikon AF-S DX Zoom-Nikkor 17-55mm f/2.8G IF-ED

08/09/2002 12:09:56 PM · #32

Originally posted by lisae:
I've often wondered what DPC voters would think of Tracey Moffat's work, eg. this photo or this one. She's currently my favourite photographer. Most of her work is very narrative and filmic (she's also a filmmaker).

I don't particularly care for the first one, but the second one impresses me... :)

sohr

Nikon Coolpix 990

08/09/2002 12:10:57 PM · #33

I think those photos would get ripped to shreds here.

They are very artistic, but in such a way that would escape notice of 95% of the general population (myself included).

focus

Canon EOS-20D

08/09/2002 12:14:18 PM · #34

What the heck. I've lived a full life of sticking my foot in my mouth, why stop now? If that baby picture isn't blurred, then my first submit to this site is one of the clearest, nearest perfect pictures I've ever taken :-)

lisae

Olympus C-720UZ

08/09/2002 12:25:31 PM · #35

Well, one important point to note is that you won't find the work of many contemporary artists on the web without some degradation in the image quality. It seems to have become the default way to protect them from having their images stolen. Most images I've found in searches for Tracey Moffat's work, on different sites (especially her main one) are like this. HOWEVER, the version of the baby photo that is in a book I own still probably has a softer focus than most DPC voters would like :)

hokie

Nikon D2X

08/09/2002 12:25:49 PM · #36

I am gonna say wht is probably a known truth to most of you.

You must be willing to walk a lot of miles and bust your ass before you get respect enough to do what you want in art.

Just like in business. As a starting professional 18 years ago I would sit at meetings and have all these great ideas but have to keep quite while the senior level guys took the floor. I did what they said.

Now I am nearly 40, I have proven myself and I am held accountable for other people. I can take chances now that I would not have dared 18 years ago.

Photography is the same way sometimes.

That is why I think gallery exhibits allow artists to flourish far better than in classroom environments.

The aura of a gallery says..this artist is respected. Even if you don't like the stuff (which is very fair) at least you have to respect the fact these people paid some dues and earned some community respect.

But in an educational environment (sorta like here even). People assume you are novice (rightfully so in many ways) and look for the flaws..even to a point of distraction to the overall effort of the photo.

In the end, it's all about the artist feeling if they acheived their goals..and most good photographers will only begrudgingly say they are satisfied on rare occasions. You know you are getting very good when your expectations are beng reached...

shortredneck

Olympus C-3000Z

08/09/2002 12:25:55 PM · #37

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Hokie, your comment about a 'high school kid with a kodak' has given me an idea...

I wonder if those point-and-shoot disposable cameras are available with black and white or the C41 black and white film in them? Does anyone know?

My girlfriend teaches the 5th grade. I would be willing to buy a couple of these cameras for her to give to her kids to see what kind of photos come back...

Give the kid a camera... tell him/her to take it home and take a picture of anything they wanted to... I would love to see what comes back on that... I just hope the camera comes back... :)

John, this is a great idea. My son's school did this for a national Kodak contest involving 2nd graders. Out of a couple hundred kids, he won the school contest. He never took to the hobby but as you can see, he has an eye for it.
Mat's photo
I think anything that can get a child interested in a creative hobby will help the child grow in his appreciation of art throughout life.

stephan

Casio QV-4000

08/09/2002 12:51:29 PM · #38

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
I don't particularly care for the first one, but the second one impresses me... :)

*grin* To me it's exactly the other way around :-)

I like the photo with the baby for it's smoothness and the calm mood.
The second one is a bit busy for my taste and it's not an interesting composition to me. But I feel blinded by the sun and a photo which creates a feeling is always a good one in my opinion.

Canon EF 70-200mm f/2.8L IS USM

08/09/2002 12:58:23 PM · #39

I agree that both of the photos Lisae posted, as well as the one I posted would score sub 5 in a challenge on dpc most likely. Since this is a contest site and not a photo critique site, I do believe that the viewer examines a photo for flaws first. Everything else comes secondary to what may be considered a flaw by the viewer.

I do frequently go back and read through the comments that people leave on certain photos after a challenge... It appears to me that focus is the primary critique area. It's impossible to get focus just right because some people critique background blur as being a problem, while others believe that it enhances the subject...

I also frequently see "this is distracting" comments referring to some extremely insignificant piece of a photo... In this case, I believe that the viewer is looking for flaws when such an insignificant piece of a photo becomes a distraction.

To me, a distraction in a photo is some element that really pulls my eye away from the subject. If I had to look for a distraction, then it never existed to begin with.

sohr

Nikon Coolpix 990

08/09/2002 01:06:17 PM · #40

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
If I had to look for a distraction, then it never existed to begin with.

Bingo! Sometimes I have to remind myself not to "go hunting" too deep for flaws in a photo-- because then you can find a flaw in just about every aspect of a photo depending upon your point of view (background was too blurry/background was too crisp, etc).

LindaLee

Canon EOS-40D

08/09/2002 01:14:01 PM · #41

Originally posted by jmsetzler:
Hokie, your comment about a 'high school kid with a kodak' has given me an idea...

I wonder if those point-and-shoot disposable cameras are available with black and white or the C41 black and white film in them? Does anyone know?

My girlfriend teaches the 5th grade. I would be willing to buy a couple of these cameras for her to give to her kids to see what kind of photos come back...

Give the kid a camera... tell him/her to take it home and take a picture of anything they wanted to... I would love to see what comes back on that... I just hope the camera comes back... :)

This is a terrific idea; we did this at my best friend's wedding. All of the kids were given several cameras, and some incredible shots resulted. One note of warning though:Because of the way a lot of these cameras are made, it is easy to get your finger in front of the lense! About 2/3 of the kids photos had tips of fingers in the photo !

08/09/2002 01:17:11 PM · #42

I may test this... I have a 4 year old nephew... he's gonna be my first lab rat :)

shortredneck

Olympus C-3000Z

08/09/2002 01:33:41 PM · #43

Cool! Let us see the results.

08/09/2002 01:37:06 PM · #44

If I give him the camera, I'm not sure i will get it back... lol

crisa58

Olympus D-510 Zoom

08/09/2002 01:48:30 PM · #45

Re. children and cameras aspect of the "sub-thread"

Do IT!

And please be certain to offer some parameters: focus, item of interest, even rule of thirds.

My college roomie's nephew picked up her 35mm at age 3 and was astonishingly talented (unti he discovered girls some 12 years later). My son's 2nd grade class received disposable cameras and a few "classes" on what makes a good photograph. Then they were turned loose. The photos ranged from what you'd expect a 7-year-old to do to very good art shots. Each child chose one photo to enlarge to 5x7, mat and frame. Hung along the main hallway, the Exhibition Opening :) coincided with the PTA meeting - complete with punch and cookies. Every child was busting with pride. And yes, we got good newspaper coverage for it, too! In 4th grade, one of the clases for the 8 weeks was photography, unfortunately not much education on what costitutes a good photo was covered. His skills advanced little.

He sporadically participates now on DPC, having had the introduction WITH education, and the helpful feedback from the friendly folks here.

Each and every one of you contribute to the shaping of his interests in the comments you leave and the options you offer.

As a parent, I appreciate what that former 2nd g teacher did (and she got a grant for it) and what you, my fellow challengers, do each week. He has an interest which can grow with him through the years and knowledge that will help him throughout his life.