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11/28/2021 04:58:40 AM · #1 |
Originally posted by MeMex2:
Since we were promised transparency when this thread began two years ago, isn't it time to open up? |
I apologies for my long silence regarding the topic. I have been side tracked by my day job, and couldn't spend the time in this project as I thought I would. I too share the sentiment about DPC and its community being a gem worth keeping.
I have recently hired a developer to work on the project, but it is taking time. At the moment I can't make any promises regarding when it will be ready for prime time.
Regarding your questions:
Originally posted by MeMex2:
-Has Mita given up ownership along with plans to transform the site? |
Not yet
Originally posted by MeMex2:
-Has ownership gone back to Langdon? |
No, but Langdon is still helping out at times of crisis
Originally posted by MeMex2:
-Is the site for sale? |
No, but anyone willing to invest in the redesign is welcome
Originally posted by MeMex2:
-Is this it? Will DPL ever be played again? Will changes ever be made? |
The plan is to first stand up the new design, with DPL being the first major upgrade.
Originally posted by MeMex2:
-Are we going to limp along until the (our) lights go out? |
we are limping, but I have hope the end result will be a better site
Originally posted by MeMex2:
Read the opening statement of this thread. Don't we deserve the truth? |
Yes
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I'm gonna lock this thread down now until we actually HAVE some big changes to report, |
re-locking this thread until we have real news to share. You are welcome to PM me regarding the topic. |
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10/30/2021 03:49:19 PM · #2 |
| Thanks, Jane et al. And that was a good suggestion; I'm gonna lock this thread down now until we actually HAVE some big changes to report, when I'll gleefully reopen it... |
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10/30/2021 02:28:56 PM · #3 |
Before this gets closed down, I would just like it known that I am not complaining nor ungrateful for all the work that
Robert and the SC do to keep this place running without pay and against very difficult odds. I can imagine how much time is spent
and am very grateful that DPC still exists.
My frustration was the anticipation that the site was sold, was in new hands and was undergoing a major transformation. When it
became clear that that was not going to happen, I felt that what is left of the community should at least be told why it was not
going to happen and what had transpired. Maybe I did not read through the threads carefully but I was clueless.
I guess it is up to those of of who love this site and are grateful for what we have learned here and for the friendships we have made
to work hard at voting and commenting and supporting Robert and the SC who are doing the work. I thought we were going to be new and shinny
and buzzing again, but the truth is "love the one you're with". Amen |
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10/30/2021 01:33:18 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Maybe, after all, we could help? |
Possibly you COULD, but there's no mechanism in place for that right now nor will there be unless something changes with Mita. Meanwhile, we Admins and SC soldier on and appreciate positive vibes and support from the members. |
I understand from your reply that additional functionality (DPL) running on a separate Website has been explicitly forbidden? |
You're stretching, Margaret. Don't read things into what I say. I was understanding your query to be on the lines of "How can we, the members, help with coding and redevelopment?" and we have no mechanism for that. I wish we did. If some folks want to revive DPL as a stand-alone supplement to the current site (which it once was before) then, personally, I'd be all for it, although I can't speak for the admins and SC having not discussed it with them. |
That's good, given someone available and talented additions could be done, maybe start a new thread for this purpose? Members could contribute any way they can and choose.
There is no point continuing with this thread. It could be best to lock it, what do you think? Keeping it flaring up at times does not seem to serve any constructive purpose. |
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10/30/2021 01:10:52 PM · #5 |
This doesn't have to be a contentious topic. ALL of the responses here are because people care deeply about DPC.
Yes -- the site functions and it functions as well as it did ages ago. But since we keep losing people, there's less and less reason to access the site, and that's the problem. When we were getting 100 votes in a challenge, people would update throughot the day. They'd check their scores, and go down the rabbit hole into multiple threads. Then they'd look at the upcoming challenges, discuss those, go shoot, update current, get sucked into thread discussions again, rinse and repeat.
But now, even if I log in multiple times throughout the day, there's not much to see. I don't know that I've had any votes today. If I have, I think it's just 1 or 2. The same threads end up having little or nothing going on. There's not much to see or do. So it's easy for people to slip away.
The SC has been truly incredible at keeping the site going. And all of us that love the site are trying, too. The people who are "whining or complaining" are just worried. We don't want to see it come to an end.
You may think that the site is fine as it is, but there are a lot of little things that really get in the way. The other day I simply wanted to post a photo in a thread to use as an example. In other websites, you can just drag and drop the photo in. Here I need to:
1. go to my workshop.
2. Oh crap, I've used all my space.
3. For some reason, if I want to get rid of the most recent entries in my workshop, I need to scroll down to the bottom of a very long list.
4. I can't seem to figure out a way of just doing a click, shift-click to select a large amount of photos to delete, so I have to do them one at a time
5. After I delete a number of items, if there's still not enough space, I have to scroll all the way down again, (the delete button is at the bottom, so even if I want to delete the first couple of images, I need to go down to the bottom)
6. Then I import the photo into my workshop
7. I have to get the number of the photo
8. Go to the thread, select the photo button,
9. Paste in the number and post
There's been a number of threads where I wanted to just post a photo for an example of something -- It's not a photo I want in the workshop. But for a quick discussion, it's not worth the bother, so I don't do it.
Everyone keeps talking about 3" screens. I am completely in agreement that voting shouldn't be allowed on a phone. There are times when I hate shrinking to 1200px, because I have such incredible details on my large monitor, and it's disappointing to see it small. But going more mobile friendly could be extremely useful on my new 12.9" Ipad pro that I bought to replace my computer when traveling. It would be so nice to be able to swipe to the next photo. Same on my son's surface laptop.
I keep doing things that are inconvenient, because I know the site's worth it. But why would someone new to the site? They don't know. They don't have the experience here. And other places are much more friendly to new systems and setups. It's hard to hand wash dishes every night when you know you could just stick them in the dishwasher.
Again -- the SC has been on beyond incredible for keeping us going. And the people who love the place, and won't give up are trying their best.
But how many new people have we retained in the last two & 1/2 years? Can you think of any?
If we keep losing people, we need to gain new ones. Or it will just fade away.
I think we were all hoping that the SC knew what was happening and whether production really was happening. And that they would have some control over it.
What about a speed challenge for halloween? |
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10/30/2021 12:47:55 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by SandyP:
To all the people who no doubt work constantly on the behind-the-scenes part of DPchallenge, I am so sorry that you have to put up with people who are so good at finding fault and complaining! My guess is, no matter what was done to please “everyone”, there would always be something else to complain about. Just know there are so many people that appreciate what you do and are extremely grateful for what the site offers to our lives! |
I think this attitude is more prevalent from those of us who had the good fortune to be around during the magical years.
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10/30/2021 12:12:24 PM · #7 |
| To all the people who no doubt work constantly on the behind-the-scenes part of DPchallenge, I am so sorry that you have to put up with people who are so good at finding fault and complaining! My guess is, no matter what was done to please “everyone”, there would always be something else to complain about. Just know there are so many people that appreciate what you do and are extremely grateful for what the site offers to our lives! |
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10/30/2021 09:23:20 AM · #8 |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Maybe, after all, we could help? |
Possibly you COULD, but there's no mechanism in place for that right now nor will there be unless something changes with Mita. Meanwhile, we Admins and SC soldier on and appreciate positive vibes and support from the members. |
I understand from your reply that additional functionality (DPL) running on a separate Website has been explicitly forbidden? |
You're stretching, Margaret. Don't read things into what I say. I was understanding your query to be on the lines of "How can we, the members, help with coding and redevelopment?" and we have no mechanism for that. I wish we did. If some folks want to revive DPL as a stand-alone supplement to the current site (which it once was before) then, personally, I'd be all for it, although I can't speak for the admins and SC having not discussed it with them. |
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10/30/2021 08:21:28 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Originally posted by ThingFish:
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Originally posted by MeMex2:
Does anyone have an estimate on what it would cost to have the site professionally coded and designed? |
Personally I don't think that our subscriptions and even reasonable donations would be enough for a professional redevelopment of this site from scratch (i.e. total replacement). I believe that Mita found that the hard way and this is why it petered out. I think that the only chance for any changes is to add functionality like Henk-Jan has done (for free I have to add). |
I don't feel we need a major redevelopment at all...the format of DPC is fantastic as it is...I would not want that to change too much...why what do you feel is wrong with it and what should be changed that you don't like? |
DPL was mentioned many, many times. Parts of DPL could run on another Website (I assume that the basic DPL functionality still exists on the current site).
Others on this thread wanted some different additions like tagging but that would be more difficult to achieve on the existing site without changes to the code. |
Sorry, Fred, I assumed all members know about Digital Photography League, see the menu on top, it is between Community and Photos. See this:
About_the_DPL |
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10/30/2021 08:20:48 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Meanwhile, we Admins and SC soldier on and appreciate positive vibes and support from the members. |
Yah....
What a concept.
There are many of us that owe everything we are as photographers to the experience(s) here at DPC.
And that this community didn't stop at just the site.
Friends were made, travel and meetings happened, people's lives have been forever changed, and memories unparallelled created.
Kinda why I get irritated when I hear whining.
I met DPCers from all over the world, took trips I might not have to participate in meetups, and not only learned how to be a pretty damn decent photographer, but more importantly, to *like* the photographer that I am and be comfortable with that.
That last part is huge. How many of you can say that about *any* pursuit in life?
So yeah, Bear, and all of the SC members, all the memnbers of this community that have enriched my life, all of the members of this fabulous community that took their time and effort to help me, teach me, support me, and encourage me so that I arrived at where I am....
Thank you!
I owe a debt to this experience in my life I can never repay.
I'll be here with my paltry $25 a year 'til the doors are closed for good.
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10/30/2021 08:09:43 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by MeMex2:
I pay for a membership to 1x but membership is not the issue.
Since we were promised transparency when this thread began two years ago, isn't it time to open up?
-Has Mita given up ownership along with plans to transform the site?
-Has ownership gone back to Langdon?
-Is the site for sale?
-Is this it? Will DPL ever be played again? Will changes ever be made?
-Are we going to limp along until the (our) lights go out?
Read the opening statement of this thread. Don't we deserve the truth? |
Just curious.....
What makes you think you can demand answers and have the remotest expectations of any reasonable discourse, especially with that approach?
Why is it that you think anyone owes you any answer for any reason at all?
The membership is $25.00 a year.
You can also get it for $5.00 a month.
Or just be a registered user.
The list of what you get for your money is spelled out on the membership page.
So you belong for a couple of years and you think the site owner(s) need to change things around to suit your particular demands and expectations?
And then get pissy if you don't get your way???
Interesting concept.
I know we're flagging here but the level of demanding change and all 'round indignation that arises when someone doesn't snap to it is really sad.
I certainly wish that the membership hasn't declined, but I figure that's more because of inherent laziness and the ease of other social media sites than any lacking on the part of DPC.
Maybe it's run its course, had its day in the sun.....
I hope not, but it'll sure be sad to see it slip under the waters with the last sounds heard bitching and whining.
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10/30/2021 07:55:49 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Other than being able to vote on a 3" screen |
Voting on a 3" screen is completely out of the question.
It's criminally unfair to the photographers.
I get so tired of hearing about how this or that phone has incredible resolution.
It's a 3" screen and that is *NOT* an acceptable size to properly appreciate an image.
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10/30/2021 07:52:50 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Originally posted by ThingFish:
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Originally posted by MeMex2:
Does anyone have an estimate on what it would cost to have the site professionally coded and designed? |
Personally I don't think that our subscriptions and even reasonable donations would be enough for a professional redevelopment of this site from scratch (i.e. total replacement). I believe that Mita found that the hard way and this is why it petered out. I think that the only chance for any changes is to add functionality like Henk-Jan has done (for free I have to add). |
I don't feel we need a major redevelopment at all...the format of DPC is fantastic as it is...I would not want that to change too much...why what do you feel is wrong with it and what should be changed that you don't like? |
DPL was mentioned many, many times. Parts of DPL could run on another Website (I assume that the basic DPL functionality still exists on the current site).
Others on this thread wanted some different additions like tagging but that would be more difficult to achieve on the existing site without changes to the code. |
What is DPL? excuse my ignorance but I only know what DPC is |
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10/30/2021 05:32:06 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by ThingFish:
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Originally posted by MeMex2:
Does anyone have an estimate on what it would cost to have the site professionally coded and designed? |
Personally I don't think that our subscriptions and even reasonable donations would be enough for a professional redevelopment of this site from scratch (i.e. total replacement). I believe that Mita found that the hard way and this is why it petered out. I think that the only chance for any changes is to add functionality like Henk-Jan has done (for free I have to add). |
I don't feel we need a major redevelopment at all...the format of DPC is fantastic as it is...I would not want that to change too much...why what do you feel is wrong with it and what should be changed that you don't like? |
DPL was mentioned many, many times. Parts of DPL could run on another Website (I assume that the basic DPL functionality still exists on the current site).
Others on this thread wanted some different additions like tagging but that would be more difficult to achieve on the existing site without changes to the code. |
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10/30/2021 04:24:40 AM · #15 |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Originally posted by MeMex2:
Does anyone have an estimate on what it would cost to have the site professionally coded and designed? |
Personally I don't think that our subscriptions and even reasonable donations would be enough for a professional redevelopment of this site from scratch (i.e. total replacement). I believe that Mita found that the hard way and this is why it petered out. I think that the only chance for any changes is to add functionality like Henk-Jan has done (for free I have to add). |
I don't feel we need a major redevelopment at all...the format of DPC is fantastic as it is...I would not want that to change too much...why what do you feel is wrong with it and what should be changed that you don't like?
Message edited by author 2021-10-30 04:27:50. |
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10/30/2021 04:20:21 AM · #16 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
From this silence I am concluding that DPC has been abandoned and therefore nothing will be done, sad. |
Clearly the hosting fees are being paid and the site works as it ever did, and people are posting in the forums and submitting pictures -- I don't think that really fits the definition of "abandoned" ...
Other than being able to vote on a 3" screen and maybe a couple of other minor improvements is there really any functionality the site lacks? I'm actually opposed to many of the proposed cosmetic "improvements" -- the current pages (especially voting pages) were deliberately designed to conform to industry standards* for the evaluation of color photographs.
The people who "keep the site running" (schedule challenges, validate submissions, moderate forums) are all unpaid except for a free membership and (I think) unlimited Portfolio space.
*Photo-editing spaces are traditionally painted 18% neutral gray and preferably have daylight-balanced lighting. |
I also agree with the general on this...I would not want the set up of this site to change too much...it's great as it is and everything works perfectly the way it is...we just need more new members...perhaps we need big photographic sponsors like Canon, Nikon and big photographic stores and the like. Ok there will be ads then but that's better then DPC slowly wasting away and the big sponsors will create more awareness for DPC and cause membership to increase imo...look how popular DPReview is...that site has only become more popular in the time that we have been loosing members. And I don't find the ads on DPREVIEW bothersome at all really
Message edited by author 2021-10-30 04:30:59. |
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10/30/2021 02:02:21 AM · #17 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Maybe, after all, we could help? |
Possibly you COULD, but there's no mechanism in place for that right now nor will there be unless something changes with Mita. Meanwhile, we Admins and SC soldier on and appreciate positive vibes and support from the members. |
I understand from your reply that additional functionality (DPL) running on a separate Website has been explicitly forbidden? |
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10/30/2021 12:05:29 AM · #18 |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
Maybe, after all, we could help? |
Possibly you COULD, but there's no mechanism in place for that right now nor will there be unless something changes with Mita. Meanwhile, we Admins and SC soldier on and appreciate positive vibes and support from the members. |
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10/29/2021 10:49:55 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
to me DPC feels abandoned. |
That's an awfully negative view. We who are running it haven't abandoned it, and the absentee ownership isn't any different than what we had at the tail few years of Langdon's tenure. We're doing the best we can with what we've got. We still have hopes for the future but we have plenty on our plates in the here-and-now... |
It is not a negative view, it is a statement of reality - this site has been abandoned by the owner making it very difficult to make any changes. And you confirmed this.
This thread revival started by Roz offering a financial donation and myself suggesting additions to the site rather than major redevelopment which seems to have completely stalled. What is wrong with rank-and-file members offering to help?? Why are we dismissed and ignored?
And we don't know what is on your "plates" other than the usual - challenge topics, validations, thread moderation, much reduced now with much lower participation - as you won't tell us, and we continue to be left in the dark uncertain about the future :(
Maybe, after all, we could help?
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10/29/2021 09:08:12 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
to me DPC feels abandoned. |
That's an awfully negative view. We who are running it haven't abandoned it, and the absentee ownership isn't any different than what we had at the tail few years of Langdon's tenure. We're doing the best we can with what we've got. We still have hopes for the future but we have plenty on our plates in the here-and-now... |
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10/29/2021 06:39:59 AM · #21 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
From this silence I am concluding that DPC has been abandoned and therefore nothing will be done, sad. |
Clearly the hosting fees are being paid and the site works as it ever did, and people are posting in the forums and submitting pictures -- I don't think that really fits the definition of "abandoned" ... |
No promised additions, no DPL etc. As I suggested before some functionality like DPL could be added instead of very costly and time consuming major site redevelopment.
Hosting fees can be done with an automatic payment (I do that for my personal Website), I assume that day to day maintenance is minimal as there are no changes to worry about. I ran a business site for 20 years, the biggest job was the initial development, after that there was not much work except when there was something new like compulsory Web site security (https vs http) or the expiry of Adobe Flash which we used in our course-ware.
As you pointed out, all day-to-day admin running of this site is done by volunteers, no work at all for the owner.
I cannot understand at all lack of response from the owner, to me DPC feels abandoned.
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10/29/2021 06:28:21 AM · #22 |
This thread has turned into an interesting aspect of community expectations.
I just reread the OP of this thread, and yes, it mentioned a refresh of DPChallenge, but I didn't read any eye-opening updates.
The questions about where our money goes is an interesting twist as well. I asked the question about who pays for memberships on other sites partly because I was curious if the same expectations and questions are raised in those communities (or if the answers are readily available upfront). I think demanding to know where the money goes is somewhat out of line. You sign up here, either for free with limited access, or you pay $25 a year to enter more challenges and get some portfolio space. When / where did it become "ok" to have any expectations, or expect answers to some of the questions being raised here recently? If your portfolio wasn't available, sure, that would be a valid expectation to ask about since that was part of the deal, etc.
The other side of the coin is I find it satisfying that DPChallenge has enough of a community feel that, in general, we're mostly a happy, satisfied group that all enjoy photography to varying degrees.
DPChallenge is coming up on its 20 year anniversary! How cool is that?! :-D
Originally posted by MeMex2:
I pay for a membership to 1x but membership is not the issue.
Since we were promised transparency when this thread began two years ago, isn't it time to open up?
-Has Mita given up ownership along with plans to transform the site?
-Has ownership gone back to Langdon?
-Is the site for sale?
-Is this it? Will DPL ever be played again? Will changes ever be made?
-Are we going to limp along until the (our) lights go out?
Read the opening statement of this thread. Don't we deserve the truth? |
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10/28/2021 11:34:05 PM · #23 |
I pay for a membership to 1x but membership is not the issue.
Since we were promised transparency when this thread began two years ago, isn't it time to open up?
-Has Mita given up ownership along with plans to transform the site?
-Has ownership gone back to Langdon?
-Is the site for sale?
-Is this it? Will DPL ever be played again? Will changes ever be made?
-Are we going to limp along until the (our) lights go out?
Read the opening statement of this thread. Don't we deserve the truth?
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10/28/2021 10:55:26 PM · #24 |
Originally posted by MargaretNet:
From this silence I am concluding that DPC has been abandoned and therefore nothing will be done, sad. |
Clearly the hosting fees are being paid and the site works as it ever did, and people are posting in the forums and submitting pictures -- I don't think that really fits the definition of "abandoned" ...
Other than being able to vote on a 3" screen and maybe a couple of other minor improvements is there really any functionality the site lacks? I'm actually opposed to many of the proposed cosmetic "improvements" -- the current pages (especially voting pages) were deliberately designed to conform to industry standards* for the evaluation of color photographs.
The people who "keep the site running" (schedule challenges, validate submissions, moderate forums) are all unpaid except for a free membership and (I think) unlimited Portfolio space.
*Photo-editing spaces are traditionally painted 18% neutral gray and preferably have daylight-balanced lighting. |
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10/28/2021 09:35:08 PM · #25 |
Originally posted by Elaine:
.... Does that cover those expenses? If not, who pays the difference? If it does, where does the extra go? |
Ummmm.... I would hope it goes in the pockets of the poor guy who spends hours and hours on the technical side of keeping all this up and running. One of our best friends used to run a popular Forums site. You wouldn't BELIEVE what a headache it was and how MUCH of his time it took. I'm surprised we are still paying the same $25 as when we started years and years ago. Whoever is the hands, feet and brains behind DPchallenge... my hat is off to you and I feel pretty sure we don't pay you enough! |
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