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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Mirrorless decisions
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Showing posts 1 - 19 of 19, (reverse)
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04/25/2019 08:29:11 AM · #1
I'm getting tired of carrying my Canon 80D everywhere, so I've been using my Olympus OMD EM5 a lot lately. However it's getting old and outdated, so it's time for an update. I'm not convinced that another Olympus is the way to go though because of the small sensor and very obvious noise.

I'd really like to stick to Canon (M series, not full frame) if I can as it would prevent me having to learn a whole new menu system; also adapters from Canon EF to Canon M seem to be easier to come by than adapters to use my lenses on another brand (in South Africa anyway). I also like the look of some of the (few) Canon M lenses that are available. And Canon prices seem a lot better than other brands.

My problem is that the Canon M5 is rather outdated and the M50, while superior in some respects, lacks some of the customisation I've grown used to using on my 80D. There have been rumours of an M5 Mark II for months now, but there are no reliable signs that the new camera will be available any time soon. I hate having to wait but I'm terrified that I could buy the M50 (or something else) only for an M5 Mark II to arrive on the scene as soon as I've bought it.

I'm faced with a really tough decision whether to
1. buy the M50
2. buy something else - but what?
3. wait for a camera that may not even arrive in 2019.

Any recommendations would be welcome. If only someone had a crystal ball and knew what Canon was planning!
04/25/2019 09:46:11 AM · #2
I tried many cameras (mirrorless) the last few weeks and as I said before, they all performed way better than my 70D. Problem is that if you already invested in lenses, switching to another brand can be a pricey obstacle. If you do not shoot Video, the choice of the Canon Eos RP is the way to go. All depends of your budget. If looking around 1200US$ go for the RP. If your budget is around 1900US$ go for a Sony A7III. The Fujifilm X-T30 got my attention too, which was cheaper than the RP.
I just unboxed the RP and charge the battery now.
The weight is about half of the 70D...
04/25/2019 10:47:27 AM · #3
The problem with the RP is that the lenses will still be heavy. The RP with 24-105mm lens weighs just slightly less than my walk-around combination of 80D with 18-135mm and gives me less reach, so that doesn't really work for me. By contrast the Canon M50 with 18-150mm lens together weigh less than my 80D does without a lens.

I'm only just over 5 foot tall and not very strong, so size matters.

I've read a bit about the Fujifilm X-T30, but the lenses are bigger and heavier than similar lenses for Canon. It is an option I'm considering, though X-T30 with an 18-135mm lens will cost me about double the M50 kit. I also haven't come across an adapter that will let me use my Canon lenses.
04/25/2019 12:11:44 PM · #4
I am a big fan of the Fujifilm line. I picked up an X100s a number of years ago as an alternative to situations when I didn't want to lug my Canon around. I fell in love with it. So, much that I invested in an X Pro2 a couple years ago. I have not tried the X-T30, but I suspect you would not be disappointed.
04/25/2019 12:28:33 PM · #5
It's funny, going back to my point and shoot days I've had cameras of so many different brands, but I've never even touched a Fuji. I'll probably have to look at both the Fujifilm X-T30 and the Canon M50 and see which (if either) feels right for me. Meanwhile I suppose reading the review would be a good place to start.
04/25/2019 12:43:20 PM · #6
Some points of reference:
- Canon has not indicated that the M system will be going away, however there has not been a high level of investment in lenses for the system, which does not give a warm fuzzy feeling
- The RF-mount seems to be the future, but there are no concrete plans for APS-C RF-mount cameras (but Canon has not ruled this out at all). I expect that we will see APS-C RF-Mount cameras eventually, but whether we see lightweight lenses is another question. One cool revelation is the incredibly short length of the upcoming RF 70-200 /2.8 zoom. It's positively squat compared to the EF version. Still not a light lens though.

Even the APS-C mirrorless cameras don't always gain you that much reduction in weight/size. One alternative is to go a little smaller yet and look at micro four thirds. There you have a choice of manufacturers for both bodies and lenses.
04/25/2019 01:26:17 PM · #7
Originally posted by kirbic:

Some points of reference:
- Canon has not indicated that the M system will be going away, however there has not been a high level of investment in lenses for the system, which does not give a warm fuzzy feeling


I'm not too bothered about the small lens selection as I can always use EF-S lenses if the need arises. What bothers me is that there were already rumours that the M5 Mark II would come out in late 2018, but nothing came of that and recent rumours of an imminent release have been dismissed by those who claim to be in the know. It certainly appears that all they're interested in right now is the RF mount, and that's definitely not for me.

Originally posted by kirbic:

Even the APS-C mirrorless cameras don't always gain you that much reduction in weight/size. One alternative is to go a little smaller yet and look at micro four thirds. There you have a choice of manufacturers for both bodies and lenses.


I'm currently using micro four thirds (Oly OMD EM5) as my small camera. I loved it when I first got it, probably because it was my first camera with a touch screen, but the small sensor causes too much noise and that's really starting to bother me. Still, I considered an upgrade, but when I looked at what was available, the EM5 Mark II is pretty old too, and there's no signs of a new model coming out either. And one review said that the EM10 Mark III was worse than the EM10 Mark II, so that's not a great option either. I haven't looked at Panasonic options though, so maybe I should.

Anyway, neither the Canon M series, nor the Fujifilm X-T30 are much bigger than my EM5, and they do offer a better sensor.
04/25/2019 01:59:37 PM · #8
Originally posted by markwiley:

I am a big fan of the Fujifilm line. I picked up an X100s a number of years ago as an alternative to situations when I didn't want to lug my Canon around. I fell in love with it. So, much that I invested in an X Pro2 a couple years ago. I have not tried the X-T30, but I suspect you would not be disappointed.


Also a fan of Fujifilm, though if you buy it used, be warned. B&H sold me a camera with sensor dust, and since there is no removable lens, I don't know how to clean it.

Another good mirrorless camera is probably on your phone.
04/25/2019 02:07:51 PM · #9
Originally posted by posthumous:

Also a fan of Fujifilm, though if you buy it used, be warned. B&H sold me a camera with sensor dust, and since there is no removable lens, I don't know how to clean it.

Another good mirrorless camera is probably on your phone.


I buy lenses used, but not cameras, do that shouldn't be a problem. That doesn't sound good though.

I hate using my phone as a camera. Aside from the fact that I don't have a very good one, my hands are too shaky to hold it steady, so my photos never come out well. That's why I never leave home without a "real" camera.
04/25/2019 02:23:04 PM · #10
Originally posted by posthumous:

... if you buy it used, be warned. B&H sold me a camera with sensor dust, and since there is no removable lens, I don't know how to clean it.

If it doesn't have a removable lens, how did dust get on the sensor in the first place? Avoiding that problem is one reason I haven't been enthused about upgrading to a dSLR ...
04/25/2019 03:51:20 PM · #11
Originally posted by GeneralE:

If it doesn't have a removable lens, how did dust get on the sensor in the first place?


That question has been hanging over my head for years.
04/25/2019 04:13:40 PM · #12
Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

If it doesn't have a removable lens, how did dust get on the sensor in the first place?


That question has been hanging over my head for years.

B&H didn't have a theory?
04/25/2019 04:43:54 PM · #13
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

If it doesn't have a removable lens, how did dust get on the sensor in the first place?


That question has been hanging over my head for years.

B&H didn't have a theory?
I never told them.
04/25/2019 07:28:18 PM · #14
Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

If it doesn't have a removable lens, how did dust get on the sensor in the first place?


That question has been hanging over my head for years.

B&H didn't have a theory?
I never told them.


The Ricoh GR II, which I adore, doesn't have a removable lens but does have a sensor dust issue. Not sure about your Fuji but when you turn on the Ricoh its lens protrudes... I believe it's susceptible to dust at this moment. There are YouTube videos on how to disassemble your camera but it's risky. The only fix I know is to send it back to the manufacturer for repair. The new GR III might be better because of IS sensor shake but I'm not sure.
04/26/2019 03:58:29 AM · #15
Hi there, as you know, I've had a few different cameras, lol.

I have settled with a Leica CL and I think it is maybe the best I have owned, build, image quality, customer service is exceptional, however, it's not cheap and there is no IS at all (unless you get the huge and even more expensive SL lenses).

I must say, I really enjoyed the Fuji XT-1 and can only imagine the XT-3 has many improvements, the Fuji lenses are light and excellent, especially the 56/1.2 and 10-24? can't remember, but the colours were always excellent and more importantly the customer service is quite good too, battery life was acceptable and it was very easy to carry (light).

If you went Sony then you will soon realise there is not a lot of difference in weight than you current Canon line up.

I found the Olympus system to be rather good too, I know it had a 2x crop factor and that will put many people off but they have tuned their system with a 2x crop and the Olympus cameras that i have owned (Pen/PenF/em1) have all been extremely good, the glass is wonderful (25mm f1.2 / 17mm f2) I think if I were in your position I would sell off the Canon gear and maybe update the Olympus body to the latest model.... OR, sell the lot and invest in the Fuji system with maybe the H1 and a nice selection of primes.

One thing I do know for sure, it is great to be getting some new gear, exciting.

04/26/2019 06:26:16 AM · #16
If I decide on Fuji I really don't want to buy anything bigger than the X-T30. The X-T3 is quite large and the X-H1 is almost as big as my Canon, so it wouldn't solve my problem. Aside from weight, one of the reasons I want a smaller camera is because I like to drive with a camera hanging around my neck in case I see something I want to shoot when stopped at a red light. Anything much bigger than my Olympus will make driving difficult. I've tried using my point and shoot (Canon PowerShot SX700 HS) for that with mixed results. On the whole though the image quality it produces is really poor, even in good light.

I don't want to part with my Canon 80D at this stage either. There are some lenses I'm far too attached to, particularly my Tokina 10-17mm fisheye, as well as my recently acquired ring flash and lensbaby. And there are occasions when I prefer using an old-fashioned viewfinder.

Now that you mention it, I really need to check what Fuji customer service is like in South Africa. I remember having huge problems with Olympus customer service years back and to this day only a few local stores seem to stock Olympus or Panasonic. That in itself makes a bigger investment in the system seem like a bad idea.
04/26/2019 12:35:17 PM · #17
I've been very happy with my Olympus, but you are looking to upgrade from a higher end model than what I have, so I don't think my opinion would mean much! If you decide to sell off your m4/3 gear let me know what you have available, I might be interested.
04/26/2019 01:05:29 PM · #18
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

I've been very happy with my Olympus, but you are looking to upgrade from a higher end model than what I have, so I don't think my opinion would mean much! If you decide to sell off your m4/3 gear let me know what you have available, I might be interested.


I'm in South Africa so it's not worth selling it to you. Anyway I have a sentimental attachment to my EM5 because I used it to take the last photo of my Dad before he died.
04/27/2019 10:33:21 AM · #19
And now there are rumours that Canon will be announcing a new camera soon - possibly next week. If that camera really materialises and IF it's an M5 Mark II, I might just stick with Canon after all.

I plan to go and look at the Fuji X-T30 and the existing Canons in the meantime though, just to see which one feels right for me.
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