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02/18/2019 06:28:39 AM · #1 |
| Anyone else find it hard to score entries in the learning challenge? |
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02/18/2019 06:38:15 AM · #2 |
seems not, heading for the brown
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02/18/2019 10:10:19 AM · #3 |
Haven't started voting yet, but I think the problem is that you can enter pretty much anything and claim it was a learning experience. I think my low meh average so far shows that mine was.
There are many challenges that have an assumption of honorable behavior built into the topic.
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02/18/2019 11:06:31 AM · #4 |
| I suppose we'll just have to vote on these as if we were voting on a free study challenge. |
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02/18/2019 11:09:56 AM · #5 |
Originally posted by WonderDude:
I suppose we'll just have to vote on these as if we were voting on a free study challenge. |
It's not a Free Study ...
" take a photo of what you learned or a photo demonstrating what you learned. The title should be what you learned. " |
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02/25/2019 07:51:20 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by WonderDude:
I suppose we'll just have to vote on these as if we were voting on a free study challenge. |
I stand corrected, appears that it was just a free study. |
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02/25/2019 12:53:07 PM · #7 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by WonderDude:
I suppose we'll just have to vote on these as if we were voting on a free study challenge. |
I stand corrected, appears that it was just a free study. |
We seem to have had the same issue with this one as we tend to with New Year's Resolution challenge: you can photograph anything and then build a "resolution" around it. speaking as an individual, I do tend to find it disappointing that so many folks head in that direction :-( |
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02/25/2019 02:32:52 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by WonderDude:
I suppose we'll just have to vote on these as if we were voting on a free study challenge. |
I stand corrected, appears that it was just a free study. |
We seem to have had the same issue with this one as we tend to with New Year's Resolution challenge: you can photograph anything and then build a "resolution" around it. speaking as an individual, I do tend to find it disappointing that so many folks head in that direction :-( |
Actually, ya never know. I have taken photos specifically for a challenge, entered them, and then realized they looked very much like a shoehorn (and received a score that told me that's how they had been perceived). 
And then I have done the opposite: gone out shooting with something completely different (or nothing at all!) in mind, and come home with some shots I liked. Then I had to try to find a place to squeeze them in . . . and sometimes they do very well. 
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02/26/2019 06:13:45 AM · #9 |
Sometimes what we assume is wrong ..
I got a score that assumed my kangaroos were photographed in a zoo ... when they were actually photographed in the wild .. with great difficulty .. I was told I would have got a higher score if the voter had known that ..
we’re all human and can make mistakes ..
but I personally feel that during voting we should give benefit of the doubt ..
and that would apply to the learning challenge as well .. :)
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02/26/2019 06:26:06 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by roz:
Sometimes what we assume is wrong ..
I got a score that assumed my kangaroos were photographed in a zoo ... when they were actually photographed in the wild .. with great difficulty .. I was told I would have got a higher score if the voter had known that ..
we’re all human and can make mistakes ..
but I personally feel that during voting we should give benefit of the doubt ..
and that would apply to the learning challenge as well .. :) |
Being that the kangaroos were in an extended edit challenge I thought that perhaps the 'arm' was photoshopped in or manipulated. Still, compared to others I liked it and gave it a 7. |
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02/26/2019 06:39:57 AM · #11 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by roz:
Sometimes what we assume is wrong ..
I got a score that assumed my kangaroos were photographed in a zoo ... when they were actually photographed in the wild .. with great difficulty .. I was told I would have got a higher score if the voter had known that ..
we’re all human and can make mistakes ..
but I personally feel that during voting we should give benefit of the doubt ..
and that would apply to the learning challenge as well .. :) |
Being that the kangaroos were in an extended edit challenge I thought that perhaps the 'arm' was photoshopped in or manipulated. Still, compared to others I liked it and gave it a 7. |
The arm is unlikely to have been manipulated. When I lived in the bush (Australian for forest) I have seen wild kangaroos very frequently, they like boxing and hitting one another, mostly in a friendly way. However, if you see two large males fighting, stay well away from them as you may get injured.
So... it is best not to make any assumptions based on lack of knowledge. |
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02/26/2019 08:03:25 AM · #12 |
Originally posted by marnet:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by roz:
Sometimes what we assume is wrong ..
I got a score that assumed my kangaroos were photographed in a zoo ... when they were actually photographed in the wild .. with great difficulty .. I was told I would have got a higher score if the voter had known that ..
we’re all human and can make mistakes ..
but I personally feel that during voting we should give benefit of the doubt ..
and that would apply to the learning challenge as well .. :) |
Being that the kangaroos were in an extended edit challenge I thought that perhaps the 'arm' was photoshopped in or manipulated. Still, compared to others I liked it and gave it a 7. |
The arm is unlikely to have been manipulated. When I lived in the bush (Australian for forest) I have seen wild kangaroos very frequently, they like boxing and hitting one another, mostly in a friendly way. However, if you see two large males fighting, stay well away from them as you may get injured.
So... it is best not to make any assumptions based on lack of knowledge. |
Yeah, well with expert challenges you never know when someone's trying to pull a fast one on you. ;-D |
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02/26/2019 10:46:29 AM · #13 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by marnet:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by roz:
Sometimes what we assume is wrong ..
I got a score that assumed my kangaroos were photographed in a zoo ... when they were actually photographed in the wild .. with great difficulty .. I was told I would have got a higher score if the voter had known that ..
we’re all human and can make mistakes ..
but I personally feel that during voting we should give benefit of the doubt ..
and that would apply to the learning challenge as well .. :) |
Being that the kangaroos were in an extended edit challenge I thought that perhaps the 'arm' was photoshopped in or manipulated. Still, compared to others I liked it and gave it a 7. |
The arm is unlikely to have been manipulated. When I lived in the bush (Australian for forest) I have seen wild kangaroos very frequently, they like boxing and hitting one another, mostly in a friendly way. However, if you see two large males fighting, stay well away from them as you may get injured.
So... it is best not to make any assumptions based on lack of knowledge. |
Yeah, well with expert challenges you never know when someone's trying to pull a fast one on you. ;-D |
Our overall policy is to vote as if a photo is "legal" -- if you later feel someone has "pulled a fast one on you" you are free to (respectfully) criticize their approach in the photo comments or in the forums. |
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02/26/2019 11:17:06 AM · #14 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by marnet:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by roz:
Sometimes what we assume is wrong ..
I got a score that assumed my kangaroos were photographed in a zoo ... when they were actually photographed in the wild .. with great difficulty .. I was told I would have got a higher score if the voter had known that ..
we’re all human and can make mistakes ..
but I personally feel that during voting we should give benefit of the doubt ..
and that would apply to the learning challenge as well .. :) |
Being that the kangaroos were in an extended edit challenge I thought that perhaps the 'arm' was photoshopped in or manipulated. Still, compared to others I liked it and gave it a 7. |
The arm is unlikely to have been manipulated. When I lived in the bush (Australian for forest) I have seen wild kangaroos very frequently, they like boxing and hitting one another, mostly in a friendly way. However, if you see two large males fighting, stay well away from them as you may get injured.
So... it is best not to make any assumptions based on lack of knowledge. |
Yeah, well with expert challenges you never know when someone's trying to pull a fast one on you. ;-D |
Our overall policy is to vote as if a photo is "legal" -- if you later feel someone has "pulled a fast one on you" you are free to (respectfully) criticize their approach in the photo comments or in the forums. |
People are allowed to pull "fast ones" in Extended editing ... nature of the beast. Doesn't have anything to do with it being legal or not, so worrying about it for voting is a non-issue. I like to look and see if it's a straight photo or something that's been manipulated to fool the viewer. Nothing wrong with that. |
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02/26/2019 02:37:50 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Our overall policy is to vote as if a photo is "legal" -- if you later feel someone has "pulled a fast one on you" you are free to (respectfully) criticize their approach in the photo comments or in the forums. |
People are allowed to pull "fast ones" in Extended editing ... nature of the beast. Doesn't have anything to do with it being legal or not, so worrying about it for voting is a non-issue. I like to look and see if it's a straight photo or something that's been manipulated to fool the viewer. Nothing wrong with that. |
The only thing "wrong" is that you can't always accurately tell if it's been "manipulated to fool the viewer" or not, and that you may be penalizing someone for doing something they didn't do ... I put "legal" in quotes specifically because I recognize that it's not a question of the rules, but that I think it is important to vote on the photo as you see it, not based on an unsubstantiated assumption about how it was made.
You can always criticize an image later if you think your vote was unwarranted based on later information; you can't go back an award a higher vote if your assumption is shown to be wrong. |
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02/26/2019 03:32:43 PM · #16 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
You can always criticize an image later if you think your vote was unwarranted based on later information ... |
Ummm ... not so much really. FWIW, I did give this image a 7 - not to say I didn't look long and hard at it first. It is fun to look at. :-) |
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02/26/2019 04:04:16 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
You can always criticize an image later if you think your vote was unwarranted based on later information ... |
Ummm ... not so much really. FWIW, I did give this image a 7 - not to say I didn't look long and hard at it first. It is fun to look at. :-) |
Well, you have advance permission to criticize any of mine whenever you feel it appropriate ... :-) |
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02/26/2019 04:49:57 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by marnet:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by roz:
Sometimes what we assume is wrong ..
I got a score that assumed my kangaroos were photographed in a zoo ... when they were actually photographed in the wild .. with great difficulty .. I was told I would have got a higher score if the voter had known that ..
we’re all human and can make mistakes ..
but I personally feel that during voting we should give benefit of the doubt ..
and that would apply to the learning challenge as well .. :) |
Being that the kangaroos were in an extended edit challenge I thought that perhaps the 'arm' was photoshopped in or manipulated. Still, compared to others I liked it and gave it a 7. |
The arm is unlikely to have been manipulated. When I lived in the bush (Australian for forest) I have seen wild kangaroos very frequently, they like boxing and hitting one another, mostly in a friendly way. However, if you see two large males fighting, stay well away from them as you may get injured.
So... it is best not to make any assumptions based on lack of knowledge. |
Yeah, well with expert challenges you never know when someone's trying to pull a fast one on you. ;-D |
Our overall policy is to vote as if a photo is "legal" -- if you later feel someone has "pulled a fast one on you" you are free to (respectfully) criticize their approach in the photo comments or in the forums. |
People are allowed to pull "fast ones" in Extended editing ... nature of the beast. Doesn't have anything to do with it being legal or not, so worrying about it for voting is a non-issue. I like to look and see if it's a straight photo or something that's been manipulated to fool the viewer. Nothing wrong with that. |
didnt mean to open a can of worms .. lol ..
but felt that making assumptions during voting .. and voting a photo down on that assumption .. is a little bit unfair to the photographer .. who has entered that photograph in good faith ..
just FYI the kangaroos were doing just what you see them doing .. ie. the arm ..
but i feel its an interesting take also .. that Barry see's it as 'pulling a fast one' .. when photographer's use their own photographs to get imaginative and creative ..
i see it as just another artform .. and an opportunity to expand on our photographs .. make something from 'nothing' ..
there's photography .. and there's photomanipulation .. both wonderful in their own right ..
why not look at an image in an extended editing challenge without examining it for faults .. or second guessing how it was created .. why not look at it and go with your first gut instinct .. does it speak to you or not .. if there are glaring 'errors' .. that's another story ..
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02/26/2019 06:17:29 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by roz:
didnt mean to open a can of worms .. lol .. |
The site was founded with the purpose of photographers helping each other become "better" -- it seems to me that would be hard to do without discussing how we feel about photos and the process of making them ... :-)
I've long felt there's too much discussion of challenges before submission ("Does {some subject} meet {some challenge topic} ...") and too little discussion of the actual photos (after the voting) when we can share opinions/information. |
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02/26/2019 06:59:42 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by roz:
didnt mean to open a can of worms .. lol .. |
The site was founded with the purpose of photographers helping each other become "better" -- it seems to me that would be hard to do without discussing how we feel about photos and the process of making them ... :-)
I've long felt there's too much discussion of challenges before submission ("Does {some subject} meet {some challenge topic} ...") and too little discussion of the actual photos (after the voting) when we can share opinions/information. |
yes .. i agree .. but it seems that the photos that dont score so well get swallowed up and forgotten .. some of those can be quite exceptional ..
but discussion after voting would be a great thing .. maybe it goes on and i dont know about it .. ??
i often wonder what the camera settings were on a photograph .. they're not always there .. and i'd also love to know how a photo was created .. the thoughts that went into it .. and the technicals .. :)
anyway .. i'm more into the side challenges than the actual challenges .. partly because i'm not confident enough to be able to do well .. and its not about being competitive .. its just that it sometimes hurts a bit when something you have put your heart and soul into is not 'appreciated' ..
and ppl might tell me to get over myself .. ;)
thats a work in progress .. !! .. :)
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02/26/2019 07:40:24 PM · #21 |
Originally posted by roz:
yes .. i agree .. but it seems that the photos that dont score so well get swallowed up and forgotten .. some of those can be quite exceptional ..
but discussion after voting would be a great thing .. maybe it goes on and i dont know about it .. ?? |
No disrespect intended ... but in this day and age it's rare for people to want to hear something that's not quite positive about their work (i.e. challenge entry). There was a time when I tried to promote some post challenge threads but they quickly died (maybe because I was the one who started them). :-) There were some who outright questioned why we needed to talk about "old" news, just "move on", etc...
Originally posted by roz:
i often wonder what the camera settings were on a photograph .. they're not always there .. and i'd also love to know how a photo was created .. the thoughts that went into it .. and the technicals .. :) |
Takes commitment to put those comments out there in the photographers comment area - I agree there used to be more and I often went back to some of my favorite images in a challenge to see the "story" or the details. Not there very much any more, and I'm just as guilty (most of my stuff is "snapshots" nowadays anyway).
Originally posted by roz:
anyway .. i'm more into the side challenges than the actual challenges .. partly because i'm not confident enough to be able to do well .. and its not about being competitive .. its just that it sometimes hurts a bit when something you have put your heart and soul into is not 'appreciated' ..
and ppl might tell me to get over myself .. ;)
thats a work in progress .. !! .. :) |
I'm actually shocked to hear you say this about challenge entries (confidence level) because you have some outstanding work! |
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02/26/2019 08:36:34 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Takes commitment to put those comments out there in the photographers comment area - I agree there used to be more and I often went back to some of my favorite images in a challenge to see the "story" or the details. Not there very much any more, and I'm just as guilty (most of my stuff is "snapshots" nowadays anyway). |
It was easier back when there was only one or two challenges available for entry at a time ...
I "always" try to fill out main camera and exposure data in the fields provided, and focal length in the notes area.
And I bet what you now call a "snapshot" still falls within reasonable exposure and compositional parameters ... :-) |
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02/27/2019 01:28:56 AM · #23 |
Originally posted by roz:
anyway .. i'm more into the side challenges than the actual challenges .. partly because i'm not confident enough to be able to do well .. and its not about being competitive .. its just that it sometimes hurts a bit when something you have put your heart and soul into is not 'appreciated' ..
and ppl might tell me to get over myself .. ;)
thats a work in progress .. !! .. :) |
+1
I treat my photos as my babies and when they are not appreciated it hurts. There is no toughening possible in this case, photos are an enormous part of my life, especially being an expat in Switzerland where getting to know people is difficult as this video shows:
https://www.swissinfo.ch/eng/multimedia/an-animated-guide_how-to-make-friends-with-a-swiss-person-/43930494 |
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02/27/2019 09:08:00 AM · #24 |
| Holy moly! What happened with this thread? Wow! 8-O |
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02/27/2019 11:09:18 AM · #25 |
couple of things: It's hard to trust these days. I entered my learning photo because I had never seen an urchin's mouth before. I didn't shoot it for the challenge, I just was at work and had never seen it before. I probably took 50 of almost the exactly same shot, because I thought it was fascinating. I also learned later that it's called Aristotle's lantern.
But you had no idea if it was something I learned or something I already knew.
I didn't end up voting on that challenge (life got busy and I forgot), but I was curious who won. I didn't shoot for the challenge, because I didn't have time to "learn" anything. And I didn't want to enter something that wasn't real.
So I looked at the first and second place winners. And was incredibly disappointed. Seriously... You didn't know that you that you needed water in the dessert? And if you learned sailing, why isn't a photo from on the boat and your perspective?
BUT...
If they were out playing with drones in the dessert. Maybe he really didn't bring enough water. Yes. We know we need water. But I know to bring water when hiking. Yet when I went on a short hike, I didn't bother. It was only 2 miles. No big deal. Well, the map was wrong. The mileage was completely wrong. The conditions were rough. I was in bad shape by the end. There was a warm can of coke in the car at the end, and it was the absolutely best thing I'd ever tasted in my life.
Maybe marnet did learn sailing. Perhaps the shots she took on the boat weren't very good, so she got an arrival or parting shot.
We distrust so quickly these days, because we've been given reason to distrust. But you never know...
I'd rather give the benefit of the doubt and have someone win who really didn't follow the directions (although I'll bitch and moan about it. :), than score someone down who really did go through all the work.
That being said: I usually won't enter amazing wildlife shots in an extended editing challenge. Because that's where people are allowed and encouraged to create what they want. If I get an awesome capture, I don't want people to assume it's fabricated. But I don't have anything against people fabricating an awesome shot for an extended editing challenge. That's what it's there for -- dream and do what you want. |
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