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02/11/2019 08:55:32 AM · #1
In the recent Challenge 101 Meters Marnet the winner entered a stunning photo from the Matterhorn. It definitely deserved the win... I rated it a 9... I wanted to give it a 10 but there were just a few minor compositional issues that I thought might needed some attention.
how ever I looked at the breakdown and 15 People voted that picture a 6 or below... HOW? Please enlighten me with how you can vote this so low. Is it that you do not really know photography at all? Is it that you're Jealous of great work? Did you try to make it fail so your photo would win?
There is no way a fair, true photographer, would rate this photo less than an 8.. It is definitely a Top third Picture and in my mind and in the mind of most a True winner. I know freedom of speech and all, but let's be fair, Yes Marnet won the competiton but from the comments I read thy never go feed back from anyone of why they rated them so low. I do not care it I am the one who is liked here..I will always be fair if a Photo deserves to win they will always get the score they deserve.
02/11/2019 09:22:37 AM · #2
Tastes differ. Some people think Picasso was a genius, others wouldn't give his paintings wall space if they got one as a gift! It would be boring if everyone liked the same thing.
02/11/2019 09:46:37 AM · #3
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

Tastes differ. Some people think Picasso was a genius, others wouldn't give his paintings wall space if they got one as a gift! It would be boring if everyone liked the same thing.


Yes that.
02/11/2019 09:52:05 AM · #4
Voting is subjective and has always been. I was pleased to see that there was only one 4! ;)
02/11/2019 09:53:55 AM · #5
Originally posted by vmagic118:

There is no way a fair, true photographer, would rate this photo less than an 8..


I think this thought is the problem. I didn't enter or vote in this challenge so I'm not your intended audience. I believe the Matterhorn has been photographed so many time that it could be dismissed and quickly passed by. It's a nice image but I'm curious why it holds your attention?
02/11/2019 10:03:50 AM · #6
Originally posted by insteps:

Originally posted by vmagic118:

There is no way a fair, true photographer, would rate this photo less than an 8..


I think this thought is the problem. I didn't enter or vote in this challenge so I'm not your intended audience. I believe the Matterhorn has been photographed so many time that it could be dismissed and quickly passed by. It's a nice image but I'm curious why it holds your attention?


Absolutely. Same with a lot of other subjects that suffer from overexposure and even is photographed nicely don't have much impact unless the topic stresses technical aspects, the subject itself (ex. hummingbirds, sunsets, drops and droplets, Matterhorn....). I believe we struggle here to bring our own vision (sounds grand!) or a novel view on a subject. I failed also on that particular challenge - one cannot be inspired on a weekly basis.

PS. I am yet to photograph a hummingbird!!! And in front of Matterhorn, yes, I'll be tempted to photograph it struggling to find a new angle (or not!)

Message edited by author 2019-02-11 10:07:40.
02/11/2019 10:23:28 AM · #7
It seems that you would like everyone to think and vote exactly the way that you think and vote and if they don't, they're not a true photographer. If this was the case then the same exact type of photo would win every challenge.
Just remember these famous words... Different strokes for different folks and so and so on and scooby dooby doo.

Message edited by author 2019-02-11 10:26:49.
02/11/2019 12:47:14 PM · #8
Based on your original post, you seem to be under the impression that you are a photography expert. But most actual photography experts don't talk this way.

Originally posted by vmagic118:

It definitely deserved the win...


You are definite. Why are you definite?

The following are the only possibilities you allow for disagreement:
Originally posted by vmagic118:


Is it that you do not really know photography at all?
Is it that you're Jealous of great work?
Did you try to make it fail so your photo would win?

In other words, anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant, jealous, or cheating.

In this quote, you mention the "true photographer." Are you aware of the True Scotsman? You are now claiming to know Truth.

Originally posted by vmagic118:

There is no way a fair, true photographer, would rate this photo less than an 8..


And now here you go with more definites and more Truth. This time you also talk about majority opinion. So perhaps you think validation comes from popularity as well as your own expertise.
Originally posted by vmagic118:

It is definitely a Top third Picture and in my mind and in the mind of most a True winner.


I didn't vote in this challenge but I am unaware of the Objective True principles that would compel everyone to vote high on this photo. I'm not even aware of the definition of "8" you seem to be using.

Some people on this site emphasize subjectivity of taste, which is true, but for my part I really do enjoy discussing why I like a photo and even why I picked a particular number for a photo. But I have nothing to contribute to a closed mind, and a closed mind rarely convinces anyone else of anything, so conversation with a closed mind is almost impossible.

Message edited by Bear_Music - removed url and reference.
02/11/2019 12:59:24 PM · #9
Originally posted by posthumous:

Based on your original post, you seem to be under the impression that you are a photography expert. But most actual photography experts don't talk this way.

Originally posted by vmagic118:

It definitely deserved the win...


You are definite. Why are you definite?

The following are the only possibilities you allow for disagreement:
Originally posted by vmagic118:


Is it that you do not really know photography at all?
Is it that you're Jealous of great work?
Did you try to make it fail so your photo would win?

In other words, anyone who disagrees with you is ignorant, jealous, or cheating.

In this quote, you mention the "true photographer." Are you aware of the True Scotsman? You are now claiming to know Truth.

Originally posted by vmagic118:

There is no way a fair, true photographer, would rate this photo less than an 8..


And now here you go with more definites and more Truth. This time you also talk about majority opinion. So perhaps you think validation comes from popularity as well as your own expertise.
Originally posted by vmagic118:

It is definitely a Top third Picture and in my mind and in the mind of most a True winner.


I didn't vote in this challenge but I am unaware of the Objective True principles that would compel everyone to vote high on this photo. I'm not even aware of the definition of "8" you seem to be using.

Some people on this site emphasize subjectivity of taste, which is true, but for my part I really do enjoy discussing why I like a photo and even why I picked a particular number for a photo. But I have nothing to contribute to a closed mind, and a closed mind rarely convinces anyone else of anything, so conversation with a closed mind is almost impossible.

The one thing I woud add to this is that I have rarely seen a post from Don quite so pointed.

I would hope you would read it honestly and objectively as I believe it would help you to enjoy your experience here at DPC much more.

Message edited by Bear_Music - ditto.
02/11/2019 01:13:52 PM · #10
It sounds like you're looking at photography as I did when I first started. More of a science than an art.

Yes, it is technically well done, but that's not really good enough.

I've been on this site for 9 years or so, and I've grown immensely in my tastes as to what is good photography.

Good photography isn't just technically good. This is a pretty photo -- but it's not something that will last in my memory. It doesn't make any emotional connection with me.

After being here so long, you see the lovely landscapes over and over and over again. For quite awhile, there were shots of the northern lights winning almost every freestudy. But there was little memorable about them, other than the pretty colors. They all just blended together.

A great photograph is one that you revisit in your mind years after you've seen it. Something that makes a connection. Something that you just can't shake.

When I think back at the photos that stick with me: none of them are landscapes.

These are the ones that I remember. That I enjoy revisiting. Of which I never tire:

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_763047.jpg Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_808919.jpgCopyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_773014.jpg Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1031710.jpg Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_957072.jpg Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1015223.jpg

Marnet's photo is really quite nice. But I've seen it, and I'm ready to move on.

(that being said, I probably would have given it a 7 -- but I vote high)

02/11/2019 01:24:22 PM · #11
Vince, there are many factors at play here, and one you didn't touch on is "challenge relevance" or "spirit of the challenge). In a challenge like this one (105 meters) there's in many people an expectation that the submitted images will be sort of homespun, slice-of-life compositions that invite the viewer into the backyard or out onto the front street of the shooter's actual residence. In DPC great landscapes always fare very well, and there are many challenges where they dominate. I'd expect some voters to give this spectacularly accomplished landscape shot a somewhat lower vote in this challenge because, to them, it seemed to be missing the point of the challenge.

Margaret (Marnet) herself basically acknowledged this in her photographer's notes when she "apologized" for having rented a chalet in Zermatt for 3 weeks in the window of which this challenge appeared :-)
02/11/2019 01:49:58 PM · #12
One thing that was removed from my post was a reference to the Dunning-Kruger effect. Apparently, Robert saw it as a "gotcha", a cheap insult, but it was not intended that way.

The Dunning-Kruger effect occurs when *anyone* first starts to learn something. You think you know more than you know. It's valuable for *anyone* to understand this effect, and how it might be clouding one's judgement.
02/11/2019 02:05:37 PM · #13
Oh, well, another one bites the dust.
02/11/2019 02:31:02 PM · #14
Originally posted by marnet:

... another one bites the dust.

Note that this song (by Queen) is one of two currently recommended to help keep pace when performing CPR ...
02/11/2019 02:33:48 PM · #15
Originally posted by posthumous:

One thing that was removed from my post was a reference to the Dunning-Kruger effect. Apparently, Robert saw it as a "gotcha", a cheap insult, but it was not intended that way.

The Dunning-Kruger effect occurs when *anyone* first starts to learn something. You think you know more than you know. It's valuable for *anyone* to understand this effect, and how it might be clouding one's judgement.

Thanks for the clarification, Don. When expressed in this manner it passes the smell test. Feel free to link here if you wish.
02/11/2019 02:39:32 PM · #16
Originally posted by insteps:

Originally posted by vmagic118:

There is no way a fair, true photographer, would rate this photo less than an 8..


I think this thought is the problem. I didn't enter or vote in this challenge so I'm not your intended audience. I believe the Matterhorn has been photographed so many time that it could be dismissed and quickly passed by. It's a nice image but I'm curious why it holds your attention?


I think thereís a thought a few thoughts before this one that is the source of the problem :-)

I didnít vote on this one but Iím with Wendy here, I couldnít really low ball it because itís a really well done landscape, but it wouldnít get above a 6 or a 7 because itís like flushing the toilet, it always seems to be happening.
02/11/2019 02:43:49 PM · #17
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by marnet:

... another one bites the dust.

Note that this song (by Queen) is one of two currently recommended to help keep pace when performing CPR ...

... and the flip side (for CPR) is 'Staying Alive'! :-D
02/11/2019 02:51:33 PM · #18
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by marnet:

... another one bites the dust.

Note that this song (by Queen) is one of two currently recommended to help keep pace when performing CPR ...

... and the flip side (for CPR) is 'Staying Alive'! :-D

I know, irony abounds ...
Originally posted by posthumous:

The Dunning-Kruger effect occurs when *anyone* first starts to learn something. You think you know more than you know....

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1132599.jpg
02/11/2019 05:47:20 PM · #19
Originally posted by insteps:

Originally posted by vmagic118:

There is no way a fair, true photographer, would rate this photo less than an 8..

I think this thought is the problem. I didn't enter or vote in this challenge so I'm not your intended audience. I believe the Matterhorn has been photographed so many time that it could be dismissed and quickly passed by. It's a nice image but I'm curious why it holds your attention?

Interesting banter in here about shots or locations being overly done and the DPC crowd tiring of them, etc... yet when you consider that this was a 'Members' challenge with only 40 votes and it still made it's way to the top of the heap, perhaps we're not tired of breath-taking scenery yet. :-) FWIW, I gave this a 9. At first I thought, yeah, right, somebody has THIS out their backdoor, but then again, who knows? What pushed this up into the 'something new' scenery type photo was the inclusion of the buildings in the lower edge of the frame. Took it out of the 'cliche' realm and just put in the "I'm jealous" bucket.
02/12/2019 07:37:07 AM · #20
I too enjoy flushing the toilet.
Thanks for reminding me John.
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