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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> Has anyone noticed that...
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02/14/2019 02:38:31 PM · #1
Originally posted by marnet:

So maybe DP Challenge should not be a photography challenge any more? Abandon scores and ribbons altogether?


Thatís not what Iím saying. Some people enjoy the race and shoot for it, thatís perfect and I used to be like that.
If the type of image that wins here is really the type of image you would be happy and proud to take then thatís the way to go, if itís not then shooting to be in the race will probably be highly unsatisfying and frustrating, this is just about being honest, nothing more.
02/14/2019 01:47:45 PM · #2
So maybe DP Challenge should not be a photography challenge any more? Abandon scores and ribbons altogether?
02/14/2019 01:38:52 PM · #3
Itís been a while since Iíve shot a photo with the score or the placement of the photo in mind, I do however remember when I would do that and honestly thereís a lot more satisfaction now than before. I have the utmost respect for the people that shoot Ēto be in the raceĒ but I donít think that going out with the camera and looking for a scene that would score well here could help anyoneís expression of photography. This subject comes up a lot here and every time it does I canít help thinking about people like jmritz, insteps, posthumous and many more like them, their style doesnít seem influenced by the ranking system here but from where I seem to be standing, Iíd much prefer to spend some time looking at one of their photos than the usual front plage stuff. With this in mind I find it silly to be worried about who votes what and why.
The scoring here at DPC doesnít say anything about the goodness of an image and if thatís true, why feel anything when thereís low or tactical voting?
02/14/2019 09:59:42 AM · #4
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

Originally posted by GolferDDS:

I question the value of posting the average score of participants in the challenge and average score of non participants in a challenge for each entered picture. It only highlights the fact that participants in a challenge will routinely give poorer scores on pictures they are competing with. Case in point: in my handshake entry the participants average score was a 4.6 and the non participants average score was 6.06. Seriously, what is the benefit of knowing that?


I had the opposite experience in the 101 meters challenge.

Avg (participants): 5.5185
Avg (non-participants): 4.2857

So it seems not all participants vote down entries they're competing against.


The important thing is that they vote at all!


Originally posted by jagar:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by jagar:

We could use the space and write: the score you received was the only one possible, itís the perfect score.

I don't think you can fit that in with your expressed world view, John :-) "Perfection" is not a concept that exists in that universe, as it's a comparative, or "ranking" term. Ther can be no perfection without the existence of less-than-perfect.


Ok, your right, that would mean that there was a less that perfect score possible, leave out the perfect bit :-)


"the score you received was the only one possible!" Yes, that would be an improvement. But there will be no score at all if there were no votes.


And to quote ' . substr('https://www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('https://www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Mariuca . What kind of photographers are we here if we cannot be objective, meaning detached from the fate of our own image, when we have a horse in the race?
02/14/2019 01:47:16 AM · #5
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by jagar:

We could use the space and write: the score you received was the only one possible, itís the perfect score.

I don't think you can fit that in with your expressed world view, John :-) "Perfection" is not a concept that exists in that universe, as it's a comparative, or "ranking" term. Ther can be no perfection without the existence of less-than-perfect.


Ok, your right, that would mean that there was a less that perfect score possible, leave out the perfect bit :-)
02/14/2019 01:39:05 AM · #6
Originally posted by jagar:

We could use the space and write: the score you received was the only one possible, itís the perfect score.

I don't think you can fit that in with your expressed world view, John :-) "Perfection" is not a concept that exists in that universe, as it's a comparative, or "ranking" term. Ther can be no perfection without the existence of less-than-perfect.
02/14/2019 01:07:50 AM · #7
We could use the space and write: the score you received was the only one possible, itís the perfect score.
02/13/2019 06:21:46 PM · #8
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

Originally posted by GolferDDS:

I question the value of posting the average score of participants in the challenge and average score of non participants in a challenge for each entered picture. It only highlights the fact that participants in a challenge will routinely give poorer scores on pictures they are competing with. Case in point: in my handshake entry the participants average score was a 4.6 and the non participants average score was 6.06. Seriously, what is the benefit of knowing that?


I had the opposite experience in the 101 meters challenge.

Avg (participants): 5.5185
Avg (non-participants): 4.2857

So it seems not all participants vote down entries they're competing against.

Hard to believe but I managed to be the opposite of both of you in 101 Meters ...

Avg (participants): 4.8966
Avg (non-participants): 4.8333


So I repeat, what is the value of that information? Maybe we could use that space for a more useful statistic like for example a number that tells the contributor how much his/her score is above or below his/her total average. Just saying!
02/13/2019 01:59:25 PM · #9
Originally posted by GinaRothfels:

Originally posted by GolferDDS:

I question the value of posting the average score of participants in the challenge and average score of non participants in a challenge for each entered picture. It only highlights the fact that participants in a challenge will routinely give poorer scores on pictures they are competing with. Case in point: in my handshake entry the participants average score was a 4.6 and the non participants average score was 6.06. Seriously, what is the benefit of knowing that?


I had the opposite experience in the 101 meters challenge.

Avg (participants): 5.5185
Avg (non-participants): 4.2857

So it seems not all participants vote down entries they're competing against.

Hard to believe but I managed to be the opposite of both of you in 101 Meters ...

Avg (participants): 4.8966
Avg (non-participants): 4.8333
02/13/2019 12:40:49 PM · #10
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02/13/2019 11:28:54 AM · #11
It would never cross my mind to calculate various number of votes and in which categories.

What I'd like to stress though is that I doubt that the recent anonymity post voting will promote anything constructive.
What could be the next step? To be like FB or instagram and push numerous "likes" and be done with it?

The desire to win in some people is so great that giving low marks when participating also in a challenge blinds everything.
What kind of photographers are we here if we cannot be objective, meaning detached from the fate of our own image, when we have a horse in the race?
It's true that an image, book, piece of music has a different resonance in our minds depending on a lot of factors, but the moment of voting is ONE moment even if we reconsider later our taste and preference.

This might not be the place to encourage people good with statistics and psychological insight to calculate that giving a low mark out of fear of not winning would only make the rest angry and give low marks in their turn.

This is not to prompt people to give high marks but to enjoy our game here and give marks in a responsible way according to their own judgement and, time permitting, to comment without fear
02/13/2019 10:43:27 AM · #12
Originally posted by Janja:

Originally posted by PennyStreet:

though I might like to know how many votes were given in total from participants vs non.


The voting of your latest entry was 28 from participators, 13 from non-participators
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/2000-2999/2794/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1232087.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/2000-2999/2794/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1232087.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
Yes that can be calculated ;-)
(As long as the averages are not equal)


Thank you! It seems I need to brush up on my algebra.
I do think itís important to note that i would have had only13 votes on my entry if participants didnít do their part.
So I want to offer up a huge thank you to all participants who vote. Whether one wins or not, it wouldnít be much of a competition without you!
02/11/2019 05:39:04 PM · #13
Originally posted by Lydia:

Originally posted by Neat:

I often look at the average commentors vote and itís a shame that itís gone, now I feel people will freely give low votes and comments not care about that statistic showing up.


The people who low vote weren't leaving comments anyway.

They're gonna vote low anyway. But, now it frees everyone to tell why they don't like an image... since their vote won't be seen. I think the number of helpful critiques will rise... and the glowing comments will not decrease.

It would (or will be) interesting to see some stats for how many comments were given per challenge prior to the comment avg vote going away versus now. Although, since the change kind of snuck in (except for this thread) it could be awhile before word gets out (assuming it even matters or not).

Perhaps now we'll see a spike in the old thread chatter about voter #X just gave me a low score with their comment (or it will spill into PM's, eh). Remember those?

My average vote is around 5 lifetime here. I use the entire scale pretty much. It seems that if you give someone a vote of 3 or 4 you're a villain. This may be from the trend of voters who wont vote below a 5, or just skip an image they don't like without voting on it. I'm glad to have the anonymity back - it feels like the chains are off and I can speak freely. Yay!
02/11/2019 04:01:43 PM · #14
Originally posted by Neat:

I often look at the average commentors vote and itís a shame that itís gone, now I feel people will freely give low votes and comments not care about that statistic showing up.


The people who low vote weren't leaving comments anyway.

They're gonna vote low anyway. But, now it frees everyone to tell why they don't like an image... since their vote won't be seen. I think the number of helpful critiques will rise... and the glowing comments will not decrease.

02/11/2019 12:57:41 PM · #15
Originally posted by PennyStreet:

though I might like to know how many votes were given in total from participants vs non.


The voting of your latest entry was 28 from participators, 13 from non-participators
' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/2000-2999/2794/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1232087.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/2000-2999/2794/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1232087.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
Yes that can be calculated ;-)
(As long as the averages are not equal)
02/11/2019 09:40:52 AM · #16
You see, for me, the statistic was something to look at after rollover. A high commentator voting average on my entry was always a win for me, even if nobody else knew it. Even if only one comment. Kind of like bling. And now that little bit of fun is gone. I guess Iíll just have to dream up some other reason to hang around:)

I will add that I donít know why anybody would care about the averages of votes given for participants vs non, though I might like to know how many votes were given in total from participants vs non.
02/11/2019 01:43:56 AM · #17
In all honesty I have to say that the thing that has been removed hadnít been noticed before.
02/11/2019 01:14:13 AM · #18
+1
02/11/2019 12:05:47 AM · #19
Done and gone. Such a shame.
02/10/2019 07:46:03 PM · #20
Originally posted by Neat:

Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by mariuca:

The best way to end this controversy is to vote and comment.
I would say, especially the people who are content with the current change

Have to add that the number of votes and comments in the current challenges is incredibly poor

Did my part. Voted on 80+ images and commented on 10.


Why only 80+ why not go all the way?? Itís not like thereís 1000 photos to vote on, just saying :-)

Voted on two of the three challenges. Light participation ... so I did go all the way on those two. Didn't have time for the third one (yet). :-}
02/10/2019 06:34:57 PM · #21
Originally posted by glad2badad:

Originally posted by mariuca:

The best way to end this controversy is to vote and comment.
I would say, especially the people who are content with the current change

Have to add that the number of votes and comments in the current challenges is incredibly poor

Did my part. Voted on 80+ images and commented on 10.


Why only 80+ why not go all the way?? Itís not like thereís 1000 photos to vote on, just saying :-)

And yes I noticed this change straightaway, I often look at the average commentors vote and itís a shame that itís gone, now I feel people will freely give low votes and comments not care about that statistic showing up.

Message edited by author 2019-02-10 18:36:11.
02/10/2019 09:03:54 AM · #22
Originally posted by mariuca:

The best way to end this controversy is to vote and comment.
I would say, especially the people who are content with the current change

Have to add that the number of votes and comments in the current challenges is incredibly poor


All true.
I feel compelled to vote 100% on challenges, especially the ones Iím entered in. I believe that if voting were required, more comments would result and there would be no need for this change.
02/09/2019 10:22:33 PM · #23
Originally posted by mariuca:

The best way to end this controversy is to vote and comment.
I would say, especially the people who are content with the current change

Have to add that the number of votes and comments in the current challenges is incredibly poor

Did my part. Voted on 80+ images and commented on 10.
02/09/2019 09:36:04 PM · #24
The best way to end this controversy is to vote and comment.
I would say, especially the people who are content with the current change

Have to add that the number of votes and comments in the current challenges is incredibly poor

Message edited by author 2019-02-09 21:37:09.
02/09/2019 08:55:17 PM · #25
I'm glad it's gone, too.

I persuaded a friend to join DPC during the last league. She was surprised when someone wrote her a pm asking why she gave a particular score - naming the score. She said, "I thought the score I gave was anonymous." I knew what must have happened and checked it out for her. Then I explained.
Knowing the person who had written, I said I was sure there was no ill feeling, and she should just reply saying honestly what her thoughts had been when voting. She did. The person replied, thanking her. There were no hurt feelings. It was over.

But she's never felt quite the same about commenting since. She votes regularly, especially in challenges she enters. But she makes few comments and most of those are post challenge and simply to congratulate the winners if she "knows" them.

The "solution" for those who are disappointed in the change and will miss that little stat is, in my opinion, simple. Just tell what your score is whenever you vote. Some people regularly do this . . . at least when their score is high. There's nothing to keep others who think it's important that the photographer know what vote you gave from doing it, too.

I will say to ' . substr('https://www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', strrpos('https://www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_F.gif', '/') + 1) . ' Lydia that "Fabulous!" is kind of a give-away :)

Message edited by author 2019-02-09 20:56:17.
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