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02/03/2019 03:24:21 AM · #1
A rant that came from nowhere and is for no one.

Seems like sometimes thereís a sharp split here on DPC on what kind of photo is worthy or not, blurry vs sharp, realistic vs suggested, technical vs emotional, etc. My question is, do you have a choice to like or not to like? Initially when you look at a photo and before going off into thoughts and concepts about it, what happens? Isnít there just an immediate positive emotion or a negative emotion or a neutral one? Some people have red as their favorite colour, some people love black, we donít believe they chose that, we take it for granted that thatís just the way it is and we donít judge them for it. I like a reallly mature smelly camembert cheese more than a mature cheddar, is that ok or should someone right a fantastic essaie on why cheddar is so much better and how Iím in the wrong with my smelly camembert, that would be really silly right? but is it any different from any kind of like or dislike? Did you choose where you were born, your parents, your education, your childhood traumas? all of them things and a myriad of others imputs that you didnít choose make your likes and dislikes.
We invent stories to protect our likes and condem anything that threatens them but if we didnít choose them, would we really need to do that? We run around trying to get some external confirmation that what we do, which is no other than what we like, is the correct thing to like and do. If you realise you didnít choose any of it and nobody else did either then maybe we could have some peace of mind. The world seems split and terrribly divided and as long as thereís the idea that thereís a someone choosing, thatís how it will always feel to that apparent someone.
02/03/2019 06:53:01 AM · #2
Unless of course you're the type of person that truly wants to try and understand why the other enjoys the smelly Camembert and is fascinated by the difference. I have never understood why some would rather die than at least try to consider another POV before etching anything in stone. I'm constantly intrigued by sometime else's take on almost any given subject. How else can you learn if you don't have the opportunity to see the world through others'eyes?
02/03/2019 07:34:55 AM · #3
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Unless of course you're the type of person that truly wants to try and understand why the other enjoys the smelly Camembert and is fascinated by the difference. I have never understood why some would rather die than at least try to consider another POV before etching anything in stone. I'm constantly intrigued by sometime else's take on almost any given subject. How else can you learn if you don't have the opportunity to see the world through others'eyes?


Yes and that openness that you have Jeb, is just a happening that you didnít choose, knowing that you can look at the apparent narrow mindedness of someone who never tries to understand an opposing view and know that they didnít choose that either, peace of mind.

If I were to say to a lefty, there was a boy born in Cape Town, his alcoholic father was killed by the cops after mugging someone, his mother was a crack head and was hardly ever there, the boy committed his first crime when he was 12 and he was locked up for good at the age of 18. Iím sure that lefty would understand the fact that their wasnít any choice there. Now there was also a boy born in Pretoria to a white supremacist father, whoís mother was also exstremly racist, he was educated to hate the coloured community and lived only amongst other racist people, by the time he was 18 he committed his first racial hate crime and was put away. could that same lefty also accept that thatís just whatís happening, there was no doer nor any choice.

02/03/2019 08:53:57 AM · #4
Choices do seem to flow from the sum total of one's experiences. If you can yank yourself out of this bubble to the extent that you can consider the constellations of others' experiences, then that new perspective, as if viewed from a height, will help dilute one's certainties and open doors to empathy and reflection.
Likes and dislikes, the opinions thus spawned, are driven by the same experiences of a lifetime, and form the bases of choices. To the extent that green is just green, liking or disliking it is something added, and the heaps of likes and dislikes one amasses, the ranks of perceptions of all types combine to form the self. Here I'm paraphrasing, and hopefully not misrepresenting, some teachings of Buddhism that I personally find compelling. To go further, there is no abiding self, just a construct of likes, dislikes, opinions, perceptions, etc., but perhaps this is meandering from the topic more than necessary. I'm certainly not speaking from exceptional personal experience nor do I mean to supplant or belittle anyone's own personal beliefs.
On first sight of peoples' entries I react swiftly with like, dislike or neutral feelings. Then a little longer to take it in more deeply, and thereby confirm or readjust the initial judgement. It is fascinating to see the diversity of appreciation, or lack thereof. Very often I'm led to appreciate what I haven't previously by the comments and appreciation of other voters. I learn a lot from that, like an eye-opening tutorial.
This is an interesting thread and thank you, John, for starting it. Sorry to go on for so long in a stodgy and pedantic manner.

Message edited by author 2019-02-03 08:56:50.
02/03/2019 11:12:29 AM · #5
There's also the whole issue of "understanding" vs "acceptance" or "tolerance". I'll accept John's stinky cheese preference (no skin off my nose, so no need for tolerance) but no matter how much I understand the root or cause of the particular evil in a man's soul, I will neither tolerate nor accept it.
02/03/2019 11:21:47 AM · #6
I see two main points you are bringing up that could get confused.

The first is an argument against free will, which I personally find very compelling. We make choices based on our desires but we have no control over our desires. We can deny our desires, but we would have to do that for a reason... and did we have control over that reason? We decided to be good, but where did "good" come from, and is that "good" under our control?

And yet, if we convince ourselves there is no free will then we risk becoming passive people, experiencing fewer things in our short lives. I choose to believe in Free Will even though it is easily disproven.

The second is an aesthetic argument. If we have no choice about what we like, and different people like different things, then no artwork can be objectively good or bad. I concede this as well. But again, I will never stop writing about why I like or dislike something because I love analysis and the insights it gives me about how my brain works and maybe even what the artist was experiencing.

But the second argument pertains even more to politics, as I know you're implying. And yes, it's crucial to peace of mind. I spend enough time on Twitter to know this.
02/03/2019 11:36:32 AM · #7
Originally posted by jagar:

If I were to say to a lefty, there was a boy born in Cape Town, his alcoholic father was killed by the cops after mugging someone, his mother was a crack head and was hardly ever there, the boy committed his first crime when he was 12 and he was locked up for good at the age of 18. Iím sure that lefty would understand the fact that their wasnít any choice there. Now there was also a boy born in Pretoria to a white supremacist father, whoís mother was also exstremly racist, he was educated to hate the coloured community and lived only amongst other racist people, by the time he was 18 he committed his first racial hate crime and was put away. could that same lefty also accept that thatís just whatís happening, there was no doer nor any choice.


In both cases, the person was influenced by their upbringing and experiences. The question is whether and how to punish, ignore, reward or rehabilitate the individual for what they have done.

Upbringing is not everything. I was raised by a far right wing racist father. (who ironically was Jewish, so you know there is such a thing as a racist Jew) Yet, I did not acquire his beliefs about minorities. Either I was able to develop critical thinking skills despite his influence, or I was influenced by other factors in my life that had a greater influence in the other direction.
02/03/2019 11:43:32 AM · #8
Totally with you on the stinky Camembert.

On the other hand, for both of your examples of children brought up with destinies set by their circumstances, I can point to examples of children brought up in the same circumstances who not only did NOT commit crimes, but went on to be shining pillars of their communities.

Free will/destiny/choice?

You decide.

As for photos - we're biologically wired to choose "beauty", whatever that is. We've been arguing about what is beautiful since creation. We distrust what we don't understand. Much of our likes/dislikes stem from biological evolution.

02/03/2019 12:57:48 PM · #9
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

There's also the whole issue of "understanding" vs "acceptance" or "tolerance". I'll accept John's stinky cheese preference (no skin off my nose, so no need for tolerance) but no matter how much I understand the root or cause of the particular evil in a man's soul, I will neither tolerate nor accept it.


Punishment can also be the naturel response to crime, just as the criminal commits a crime without choice, the punisher punishes without choice, Thereís no suggestion here that we have to tolerate or accept anything, just that the choice making machine that we think of as me, isnít real, that story of the doer that taints our every action isnít really happening and never has, nothing changes at all, everything is already the only way it could posssibly be, thatís peace of mind.

We wouldnít go into a magnificent tropical forest, sit there and say, that bloody tiger shouldnít have ate that deer, give it ten years, we know thatís just what happens, or that that monkey makes the most horrendous noise, it should be ashamed of itself, how dare it. In fact in the entirety of our direct experience with the world around us, thereís only us that we believe shouldnít be exactly as we are.

This was really a rant for no one, no one can choose to believe in free will or not, no one can convince themselves into being more tolerant towards the opposite kinds of images that they like here, it happens or it doesnít, itís all just that, a happening.

02/03/2019 02:37:21 PM · #10
Originally posted by streetpigeon:


On first sight of peoples' entries I react swiftly with like, dislike or neutral feelings. Then a little longer to take it in more deeply, and thereby confirm or readjust the initial judgement. It is fascinating to see the diversity of appreciation, or lack thereof. Very often I'm led to appreciate what I haven't previously by the comments and appreciation of other voters. I learn a lot from that, like an eye-opening tutorial.


yes. this is certainly the thing. and it becomes contemplative in that stepping beyond one's initial response and listening to other responses, and then that too occasions another stepping away... I certainly have not found much rest in my own opinions.
02/03/2019 08:37:49 PM · #11
Originally posted by jagar:

A rant that came from nowhere and is for no one.

Seems like sometimes thereís a sharp split here on DPC on what kind of photo is worthy or not, blurry vs sharp, realistic vs suggested, technical vs emotional, etc. My question is, do you have a choice to like or not to like? Initially when you look at a photo and before going off into thoughts and concepts about it, what happens?...


To like or not to like--is that the question that divides us? What if, when you look at a photo, precisely nothing happens? Is nothing worse than any something? I spend less time with the nothing, in favor of any something.

We are not static creatures. Our responses to things change as we accumulate life experiences. One of the weaknesses of photography is that it is so perfectly suited to making a pale second-hand copy of life's vivid experiences.

BTW I liked the NFL's halftime 2 min. celebration of 100 years.

Message edited by author 2019-02-03 20:38:37.
02/03/2019 09:14:18 PM · #12
William Randolph Hearst said, "We hold that no person or set of persons can properly establish a standard of expression for others."

Hear! Hear!
02/03/2019 10:32:27 PM · #13
Originally posted by jagar:

A rant that came from nowhere and is for no one.

Seems like sometimes thereís a sharp split here on DPC on what kind of photo is worthy or not, blurry vs sharp, realistic vs suggested, technical vs emotional, etc. My question is, do you have a choice to like or not to like? Initially when you look at a photo and before going off into thoughts and concepts about it, what happens? Isnít there just an immediate positive emotion or a negative emotion or a neutral one? Some people have red as their favorite colour, some people love black, we donít believe they chose that, we take it for granted that thatís just the way it is and we donít judge them for it. I like a reallly mature smelly camembert cheese more than a mature cheddar, is that ok or should someone right a fantastic essaie on why cheddar is so much better and how Iím in the wrong with my smelly camembert, that would be really silly right? but is it any different from any kind of like or dislike? Did you choose where you were born, your parents, your education, your childhood traumas? all of them things and a myriad of others imputs that you didnít choose make your likes and dislikes.
We invent stories to protect our likes and condem anything that threatens them but if we didnít choose them, would we really need to do that? We run around trying to get some external confirmation that what we do, which is no other than what we like, is the correct thing to like and do. If you realise you didnít choose any of it and nobody else did either then maybe we could have some peace of mind. The world seems split and terrribly divided and as long as thereís the idea that thereís a someone choosing, thatís how it will always feel to that apparent someone.


There's an immediate positive or negative, but it's based on your experiences, history, and knowledge. If it wasn't, your tastes would never change. Simply because of my experiences here, I'm seeing some great, funky abstract artwork and absolutely loving it. Whereas 10 years ago, I would have never given it a second look.

02/04/2019 08:25:13 AM · #14
Originally posted by vawendy:


There's an immediate positive or negative, but it's based on your experiences, history, and knowledge. If it wasn't, your tastes would never change. Simply because of my experiences here, I'm seeing some great, funky abstract artwork and absolutely loving it. Whereas 10 years ago, I would have never given it a second look.


Yes thatís exactly it Wendy, your likes now arenít the same as they were 10 years ago and thatís party because of the experiences that you had here, those experiences are not in any way in your control, did you know you would read this? did you know what DPC would give you before you started and a million other events that you had no idea would happen here. It stares us in the face throughout our whole lives but yet we believe that we are still in control. It makes me think of something else thatís constantly in our direct experience, change. is there anything that we know of that doesnít change? The house that your are sitting in is changing, next year you might have to see to the roof. is your body the same as last year? Every object that youíve ever seen is shifting and changing and we all know this. Have you ever been able to keep any state of mind? I canít and Iíve never met anyone that can. Nothing in our experience is a fixed thing but yet our whole society is based on achieving and keeping a state of happiness and most of us think thatís somehow normal, what do you think are the chances of that actually happening?

02/04/2019 10:32:47 AM · #15
Originally posted by vawendy:


There's an immediate positive or negative, but it's based on your experiences, history, and knowledge. If it wasn't, your tastes would never change. Simply because of my experiences here, I'm seeing some great, funky abstract artwork and absolutely loving it. Whereas 10 years ago, I would have never given it a second look.


Originally posted by jagar:

Yes thatís exactly it Wendy, your likes now arenít the same as they were 10 years ago and thatís party because of the experiences that you had here, those experiences are not in any way in your control, did you know you would read this? did you know what DPC would give you before you started and a million other events that you had no idea would happen here. It stares us in the face throughout our whole lives but yet we believe that we are still in control. It makes me think of something else thatís constantly in our direct experience, change. is there anything that we know of that doesnít change? The house that your are sitting in is changing, next year you might have to see to the roof. is your body the same as last year? Every object that youíve ever seen is shifting and changing and we all know this. Have you ever been able to keep any state of mind? I canít and Iíve never met anyone that can. Nothing in our experience is a fixed thing but yet our whole society is based on achieving and keeping a state of happiness and most of us think thatís somehow normal, what do you think are the chances of that actually happening?

I disagree with the idea that the journey we make is not in any way in our control. I say that we have a major influence in the direction our lives will take. No, Wendy did not know what specifically she would learn from her DPC expereince, but it was because of her interest in photography, and her quest for more knowledge that led her here. That she ended up with the depth of knowledge and experience she got here wasn't something she had any way to know, but still..... We certainly take an active part in the general direction that our life will go, but then again, maybe we pursue the likes we have no control over. Chicken? Egg?
02/04/2019 11:51:35 AM · #16
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Originally posted by vawendy:


There's an immediate positive or negative, but it's based on your experiences, history, and knowledge. If it wasn't, your tastes would never change. Simply because of my experiences here, I'm seeing some great, funky abstract artwork and absolutely loving it. Whereas 10 years ago, I would have never given it a second look.


Originally posted by jagar:

Yes thatís exactly it Wendy, your likes now arenít the same as they were 10 years ago and thatís party because of the experiences that you had here, those experiences are not in any way in your control, did you know you would read this? did you know what DPC would give you before you started and a million other events that you had no idea would happen here. It stares us in the face throughout our whole lives but yet we believe that we are still in control. It makes me think of something else thatís constantly in our direct experience, change. is there anything that we know of that doesnít change? The house that your are sitting in is changing, next year you might have to see to the roof. is your body the same as last year? Every object that youíve ever seen is shifting and changing and we all know this. Have you ever been able to keep any state of mind? I canít and Iíve never met anyone that can. Nothing in our experience is a fixed thing but yet our whole society is based on achieving and keeping a state of happiness and most of us think thatís somehow normal, what do you think are the chances of that actually happening?

I disagree with the idea that the journey we make is not in any way in our control. I say that we have a major influence in the direction our lives will take. No, Wendy did not know what specifically she would learn from her DPC expereince, but it was because of her interest in photography, and her quest for more knowledge that led her here. That she ended up with the depth of knowledge and experience she got here wasn't something she had any way to know, but still..... We certainly take an active part in the general direction that our life will go, but then again, maybe we pursue the likes we have no control over. Chicken? Egg?


So where did her interests come from Jeb? If a person loved classical music but detested anything to do with sports, telling them to change wouldnít be much use would it? We take it for granted that children naturally develop interests at a very young age, itís without a doubt that that just happens. Iím a keen dog lover, never be without one, some people dillike them, I couldnít choose to dislike them.
You mentioned a quest for knowledge so I have a question, is there any knowledge at all that hasnít been given to you by someone else? Could you read these lines if you hadnít been taught to read? Did you choose to be taught to read? The sum total of who we believe our selves to be is not our own doing, it canít be.
02/04/2019 01:24:57 PM · #17
Originally posted by vawendy:

There's an immediate positive or negative, but it's based on your experiences, history, and knowledge. If it wasn't, your tastes would never change. Simply because of my experiences here, I'm seeing some great, funky abstract artwork and absolutely loving it. Whereas 10 years ago, I would have never given it a second look.


Originally posted by jagar:

Yes thatís exactly it Wendy, your likes now arenít the same as they were 10 years ago and thatís party because of the experiences that you had here, those experiences are not in any way in your control, did you know you would read this? did you know what DPC would give you before you started and a million other events that you had no idea would happen here. It stares us in the face throughout our whole lives but yet we believe that we are still in control. It makes me think of something else thatís constantly in our direct experience, change. is there anything that we know of that doesnít change? The house that your are sitting in is changing, next year you might have to see to the roof. is your body the same as last year? Every object that youíve ever seen is shifting and changing and we all know this. Have you ever been able to keep any state of mind? I canít and Iíve never met anyone that can. Nothing in our experience is a fixed thing but yet our whole society is based on achieving and keeping a state of happiness and most of us think thatís somehow normal, what do you think are the chances of that actually happening?

Originally posted by NikonJeb:

I disagree with the idea that the journey we make is not in any way in our control. I say that we have a major influence in the direction our lives will take. No, Wendy did not know what specifically she would learn from her DPC expereince, but it was because of her interest in photography, and her quest for more knowledge that led her here. That she ended up with the depth of knowledge and experience she got here wasn't something she had any way to know, but still..... We certainly take an active part in the general direction that our life will go, but then again, maybe we pursue the likes we have no control over. Chicken? Egg?


Originally posted by jagar:

So where did her interests come from Jeb? If a person loved classical music but detested anything to do with sports, telling them to change wouldnít be much use would it? We take it for granted that children naturally develop interests at a very young age, itís without a doubt that that just happens. Iím a keen dog lover, never be without one, some people dillike them, I couldnít choose to dislike them.
You mentioned a quest for knowledge so I have a question, is there any knowledge at all that hasnít been given to you by someone else? Could you read these lines if you hadnít been taught to read? Did you choose to be taught to read? The sum total of who we believe our selves to be is not our own doing, it canít be.

One of my favorite jokes of all time.... A guy was visiting the orthopedic surgeon who rebuilt his hands after a bad accident. Upon the conclusion of the examination the guy asks the doctor, "Doc, will I be able to play the piano?" The doctor said, "Sure, your hands have healed perfectly." The guy replied, "Great, I never could before!".

To me, skill, ability, an inate ability to do this or that is unquestionably out of our control. What we do with that is. To me, that means that I have some control over where I go with my life. We've most all had to do things we didn't like to do as a means to an end. And we've sacrificed to do those things we do like, which is definitely a choice. I have to say I'm pretty much a believer in that you can decide an awful lot of which direction your life will take.

Going back to the original like premise..... I do think their are some things you can learn to like. I didn't used to like cilantro. But all I ever had was dried cilantro as a spice. What I discovered later is that I don't like dried cilantro. I love fresh cilantro. The expression "acquired taste" IMO applies to things you see and do as well as things you eat and drink. I think Wendy's example of learning to appreciate work she didn't before DPC is a great example.

I'm actually in the process of changing my life direction now. I have worked as a mechanic all my life. I love it, I'm good at it, and it's given me food on the table and a roof over my head. Five years ago, Vivi and I bought a building that the first floor is now our gallery. I live upstairs. We don't see enough from sales yet that I can give up my job, but with a little.....like?, from the general masses, the time will come. Plus, hopefully I will actually be able to retire, though life choices and directions certainly put a strain on that plan.

Maybe I'm just stubborn, but I like to think that I can decide at any given moment I can completely change the direction of my life. And the fact that I have a natural affinity for this food or that task wouldn't necessarily be the deciding factor.


02/04/2019 01:28:36 PM · #18
Originally posted by vawendy:

Simply because of my experiences here, I'm seeing some great, funky abstract artwork and absolutely loving it. Whereas 10 years ago, I would have never given it a second look.


This is true of me as well. Most of my taste in photography developed at this site. It was exposure to photo after photo of bright color and sharp focus that pushed me to appreciate something else.
02/04/2019 02:02:18 PM · #19
I think we should all simply choose to be happy for the rest our lives, should be a piece of cake if we have free will, I mean it is the motivation behind every one of actions, must have been done before.
02/04/2019 04:39:09 PM · #20
Originally posted by posthumous:

This is true of me as well. Most of my taste in photography developed at this site. It was exposure to photo after photo of bright color and sharp focus that pushed me to appreciate something else.

LOL!!!

Yeah, that!

I'd have to say that my experience here with the tremendous exposure to different outside-the-box thinking and presentation makes me both a better photographer and viewer.
02/04/2019 04:43:15 PM · #21
Originally posted by jagar:

I think we should all simply choose to be happy for the rest our lives, should be a piece of cake if we have free will, I mean it is the motivation behind every one of actions, must have been done before.

Yes, but having free will doesn't necessarily mean we get to exercise it. I *really* didn't want to come to work today. I have free will.....I *could* have said, "Screw it.", and the guy I work with/for would have just dealt, but I chose not to do that because ultimately, it would have made my week more difficult. As I've gotten older, my ability to give into free will has become more easily realized, but all too often it doesn't make life better to just run with it.
02/04/2019 07:01:39 PM · #22


Originally posted by jagar:

I think we should all simply choose to be happy for the rest our lives, should be a piece of cake if we have free will, I mean it is the motivation behind every one of actions, must have been done before.


I get the feeling I could be wrong but it seems like maybe John youíre searching for the meaning of life. Yes absolutely we can choose to be happy, but happiness only comes as a result of the things we do. We reap what we sow and then those things either make us happy or sad.
There are invisible laws in this universe that if kept will bring happiness and fulfilment in life.

All the best.
02/04/2019 09:44:28 PM · #23
John is finding happiness around corners, a wily Odysseus.
02/05/2019 02:19:41 AM · #24
Originally posted by Neat:

Originally posted by jagar:

I think we should all simply choose to be happy for the rest our lives, should be a piece of cake if we have free will, I mean it is the motivation behind every one of actions, must have been done before.


I get the feeling I could be wrong but it seems like maybe John youíre searching for the meaning of life. Yes absolutely we can choose to be happy, but happiness only comes as a result of the things we do. We reap what we sow and then those things either make us happy or sad.
There are invisible laws in this universe that if kept will bring happiness and fulfilment in life.

All the best.


Couldnít be further from whatís happening Anita, meaning and purpose are the inventions of the separate individual, apart from the survival of a species nothing in our direct experience has meaning or purpose. Having meaning and purpose is like saying, what is actually happening isnít enough, there must be something better, meaning and purpose is hope, hope for something else thatís not actually happening. Humans are the only species arrogant enough to believe in meaning and purpose and deny the perfection of this manifestation. The sensation that this is isnít enough is the energetic feeling of being a separate individual and having free will and choice to mould the future into something better than whatís actually happening, itís the none acceptation of reality as it is and a sure way to be at least fifty percent of the time in the half of reality we donít want and are trying to avoid. So no, thereís no seeking here Anita, just a rant pointing to the fact that thereís absolutely nothing to do to have peace of mind, no movement for or against, any movement takes us away from what is. The idea that you are orchestrating things, the idea that thereís a separate you in there pulling the levers, is just that an idea, a thought and just like any other thought It has no tangible reality, no thought is real, whatís actually happening isnít in thought and never has been. Nothingís happening.

Message edited by author 2019-02-05 02:51:03.
02/05/2019 03:46:17 AM · #25


Originally posted by jagar:

Originally posted by Neat:

Originally posted by jagar:

I think we should all simply choose to be happy for the rest our lives, should be a piece of cake if we have free will, I mean it is the motivation behind every one of actions, must have been done before.


I get the feeling I could be wrong but it seems like maybe John youíre searching for the meaning of life. Yes absolutely we can choose to be happy, but happiness only comes as a result of the things we do. We reap what we sow and then those things either make us happy or sad.
There are invisible laws in this universe that if kept will bring happiness and fulfilment in life.

All the best.


Couldnít be further from whatís happening Anita, meaning and purpose are the inventions of the separate individual, apart from the survival of a species nothing in our direct experience has meaning or purpose. Having meaning and purpose is like saying, what is actually happening isnít enough, there must be something better, meaning and purpose is hope, hope for something else thatís not actually happening. Humans are the only species arrogant enough to believe in meaning and purpose and deny the perfection of this manifestation. The sensation that this is isnít enough is the energetic feeling of being a separate individual and having free will and choice to mould the future into something better than whatís actually happening, itís the none acceptation of reality as it is and a sure way to be at least fifty percent of the time in the half of reality we donít want and are trying to avoid. So no, thereís no seeking here Anita, just a rant pointing to the fact that thereís absolutely nothing to do to have peace of mind, no movement for or against, any movement takes us away from what is. The idea that you are orchestrating things, the idea that thereís a separate you in there pulling the levers, is just that an idea, a thought and just like any other thought It has no tangible reality, no thought is real, whatís actually happening isnít in thought and never has been. Nothingís happening.


Always interesting to see how other people think, you donít happen to be an INTJ personality type do you?
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