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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Nikon Z Mirrorless
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08/27/2018 06:49:22 PM · #1
One thing I have realized, there are extremely talented individuals on the internets that can reach a snap decision on the Nikon Z without having to see it for themselves. The "it sucks" gene runs strong.

Matt Granger looses it over the single memory slot haters: Single Card for Pros? Ask any Leica user.

Nikon Imaging Director clarifies design and hints of future releases: //www.nikonrumors.co/nikon-executive-said-they-may-also-release-a-d5-like-model-in-the-z-line/

08/28/2018 10:52:23 AM · #2
The only reason I have any use for the second slot on my D810 is that in case I would forget, I have my second slot set to save jpeg for Minimal challenges.
08/28/2018 11:33:58 AM · #3
Honestly, I really like the direction that Nikon is taking with the Z Series bodies. They *really* needed to update their mount, and the Z mount, with its large diameter and (very) short flange distance of about 16mm will really give them some flexibility in lens development. Already we are seeing the possibilities with their announcement of the development of the 58mm f/0.95 lens. They've addressed F-mount lens compatibility with the adapter, so the full range of F-mount lenses are also available.
The EVF seems well-spec'd, while the LCD is pretty standard-issue stuff. It will be interesting to see how the AF performance fares vs. comparably priced DSLRs, in particular where the F-mount adapter is in play.
The lack of dual card slots on the Z7 is, IMO, a small niggle. Frankly, I'd have expected dual slots on the higher-spec body, but it looks like they tried to base both bodies on the same mechanical design, so dual slots was perhaps something that had to be sacrificed. They are also using XQD, and I don't offhand know how easy it is to implement a stacked XQD interface to a PCB; it may be an expensive and/or technically challenging configuration.
All in all, I have to give kudos to Nikon. They've taken a great step toward the future, which is undoubtedly mirrorless.

ETA: It's looking like everyone is now beating a path to IBIS (In-Body Image Stabilization) as Nikon has included it in the Z Series, and latest info indicates that Canon will also include it in their upcoming FF mirrorless design to be (most likely) announced September 05.

Message edited by author 2018-08-28 11:36:36.
08/28/2018 12:33:04 PM · #4
1) XQD are super expensive and those cameras really didn't need them (and they are also bigger than SD cards)

2) They say the cameras have a super burst, but only without the AF and exposure working

3) The second slot is SUPER important for professsionals and for several reasons: first of all because cards can stop working. Second becasue some area of photography require RAW files and Jpeg and sometimes it's better to have them separately (if you are sending sport stuff to websites or magazines)

4) NO Eye AF

5) Significantly less AF points than the competitors

6) Only 330 shots with a single charge... 330?!?!?!?

7) New lenses roadmap incredibly long (can you be so slow in 2018 when the other have all kind of lenses you need?). So if are a professional you can't buy new Z cameras.

As a former Nikon user (more than 12 years) I would never prefer them to anything is on the market, above all the other Nikon cameras (D850 for instance)

ETA: who needs a 50 0.95 for, manual focus, incredibly big and heavy, for 6 thousand bucks? No one. Surely not a professional photographer :)

Message edited by author 2018-08-28 12:33:21.
08/28/2018 07:48:22 PM · #5
I'm going to wait for their 2nd or even 3rd iteration. Until they work out all the kinks, Alessandro mentioned.
08/29/2018 12:03:05 PM · #6
Originally posted by tanguera:

I'm going to wait for their 2nd or even 3rd iteration. Until they work out all the kinks, Alessandro mentioned.


I think there are a lot of us in that boat... These first products from both Nikon and Canon are not going to be perfect, both companies are still finding their feet in this market segment.
08/29/2018 12:13:09 PM · #7
I'm not really nerding out too much on mirrorless, yet. Mostly because I can't afford them, but I know it'll be my future because of exactly one feature ... no more front or back focus lens issues.

That being said, from what I can tell .. Sony's eye focus works unbelievably well, and any new camera on the market needs to have it.
08/29/2018 12:52:36 PM · #8
Originally posted by hopper:

I'm not really nerding out too much on mirrorless, yet. Mostly because I can't afford them, but I know it'll be my future because of exactly one feature ... no more front or back focus lens issues.

That being said, from what I can tell .. Sony's eye focus works unbelievably well, and any new camera on the market needs to have it.


Indeed, that feature may become something we simply expect, similar to how it seems that IBIS will become standard. From my perspective, it seems like the performance of the AF subsystem and the EVFs are getting to the point where they can play in the big leagues. There are relatively few technical hurdles left for mirrorless to be the preferred path for most hobbyists, and a lot of pros. As Alex pointed out, there are some concerns for specific types of professional shooting, and I think those concerns will be ironed out in the next 24 months or so.
08/29/2018 01:47:04 PM · #9
I have one single reason to be interested: silent shooting. Regardless of what I shoot, having a stealth mode will be EXTREMELY useful, especially in pet portraits where animals may be jittery. I can see great advantages to silent shooting in both weddings, and street photography, as well as set-work on movies. No more blimps.
08/29/2018 02:25:44 PM · #10
Originally posted by tanguera:

I have one single reason to be interested: silent shooting. Regardless of what I shoot, having a stealth mode will be EXTREMELY useful, especially in pet portraits where animals may be jittery. I can see great advantages to silent shooting in both weddings, and street photography, as well as set-work on movies. No more blimps.
That is true. Another big reason for me is WYSIWYG using high-quality EVF. No more guessing exposure compensation in complex lighting situations, especially when there is no time or possibility to check and reshoot.
08/30/2018 04:26:56 PM · #11
Originally posted by kirbic:

The lack of dual card slots on the Z7 is, IMO, a small niggle. Frankly, I'd have expected dual slots on the higher-spec body, but it looks like they tried to base both bodies on the same mechanical design, so dual slots was perhaps something that had to be sacrificed. They are also using XQD, and I don't offhand know how easy it is to implement a stacked XQD interface to a PCB; it may be an expensive and/or technically challenging configuration.


My guess is that any future dual card Z would be a hybrid; 1 XQD, 1 SD. 1 XQDs would take up a lot of space.

Message edited by author 2018-08-30 16:28:45.
08/30/2018 04:28:14 PM · #12
Originally posted by Alexkc:

6) Only 330 shots with a single charge... 330?!?!?!?


That, apparently, was based on a typo in the Nikon press event spec sheet.
08/30/2018 09:03:28 PM · #13
Originally posted by tanguera:

I have one single reason to be interested: silent shooting. Regardless of what I shoot, having a stealth mode will be EXTREMELY useful, especially in pet portraits where animals may be jittery. I can see great advantages to silent shooting in both weddings, and street photography, as well as set-work on movies. No more blimps.


You can do that with a less expensive and way more capable camera in the D850. While I appreciate Nikon's first fore into the mirrorless world, I am under the impression the only people this camera was designed for was those with more money than they know what to do with.
08/30/2018 09:59:46 PM · #14
While I've been using Fuji for the last 3 years "almost" exclusively, I've held on to my Nikon glass just in case they finally topped the field in mirrorless.

But these cameras seemed like they made all the "mistakes" of first generation Sony's to me. Meaning: battery life, not the uber focus of the newest Sony's (from what I've seen...I don't have a Sony), And I wouldn't buy one of those (even though they're pretty cheap now...and yet the Nikons are priced like the 3rd generation Sony's).

They needed to leap frog Sony, or at least tie the current generation, and on top of it have the glass to match.

And unfortunately, my "2/3" of the Holy Trinity of Nikon F glass (70-200mm f/2.8 and 24-70 f/2.8) won't autofocus on this, from what I gathered (could be wrong). I do have a number of G lenses though too. But when I think about it, one of the reasons I don't carry the Nikons around anymore is the weight of some of that glass. The 16-35 f/4 is so much bigger and heavier than my Fuji 10-24/f4 (which is equivalent to 15-36. I do miss a supezoom on the Fuji, and the 28-300 is pretty nice glass and not outrageously heavy for such a large focal range. The Fuji 18-135/27-200 is smaller and lighter but not as large a range (but it's also very good glass). I do have some nice primes that are G though!

That's why, of course, I went Fuji instead of Sony, because APS-C is a better compromise on lens size (and I didn't like the A6000, after buying it, I returned it and bought the Fuji). I miss IBIS though for my Fuji primes, and the X-H1 is a bit too big IMHO and also held back by "first generationness". But I may have to go that way.
08/31/2018 03:16:37 AM · #15
Originally posted by rgrenaderphoto:

Originally posted by Alexkc:

6) Only 330 shots with a single charge... 330?!?!?!?


That, apparently, was based on a typo in the Nikon press event spec sheet.


So you believe no one read that sheet twice, after preparing the event for months?!

In any case I found other "nice" specs:

The Z7 shoots 9fps with battery grip only(!!!) and with locked exposure. Without tbattery grip and no locked exposure and with live feedback on it shoots 5.5fps (similar for Z6)

Z7 has max 2.5 seconds buffer at 12 bit compressed RAW. That means around 22 shots (similar for Z6).

Buffer clears very slow like the 5 year first A7.

Nikon said it won't share lens mount information to third parties so they will be forced to reverse engineering that and you already know what it means.

With the adapter you won't be able to have AF with D Series lenses and this by far the silliest thing Nikon has done with these new cameras.

So, ok, we should try them first, but these specs are a fact no one can't deny them. And we don't know anything about possible future issues, like for every manufacturer happened.
08/31/2018 09:58:55 AM · #16
This sounds like a play from the General Motors handbook.

"We're big enough and can do what we want and you'll deal with it while we use you, the customer as paying beta customers. Only when our sales turn out to be abysmal, and y'all scream bloody murder will we fix it and give you what you really want and need."

One of the main reasons that I don't buy Detroit iron any more.

I'm no tech-/gear-head, but reading this list of "WTF???" posts leds me to believe Nikon should have done way better than this.

Message edited by author 2018-08-31 09:59:56.
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