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DPChallenge Forums >> The DPL >> Participation and scoring
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07/08/2018 12:29:28 PM · #1
If only three members of a team enter in a given week, are their top scores added and divided by 4 . . . or is it an automatic zero? Asking for a friend :)
07/08/2018 12:36:38 PM · #2
Added and divided? They will only have three scores compared to four scores of the opponents. So thatís at least one point for the components, the other three points depend on their scores compared with the scores (percentages) of the other team.
07/08/2018 01:33:39 PM · #3
I don't understand what "one point for the components" means. I'm new at DPL, but the FAQ about scoring says:

"Each week, there are two challenges that count for DPL - member (Sunday/Monday) and open (Tuesday/Wednesday)Paid members may enter either or both, while registered members may enter the Open challenge. The 4 best scores of team members are averaged together to make the Team Score for that week. A team member may only contribute one score each week to the team score."

My reading of this would be that a team of seven members with a maximum of 14 entries across the two challenges would have the scores for all their entries listed from highest to lowest. The top four scores are identified (skipping any that would cause more than one score to be counted for any individual member), and the resulting four scores are averaged to make a team score. It not all team members participate (time, interest, paid member status, etc.), the list of scores for the two challenges would be shorter without anything being converted to a zero.

Edited to add: I suppose the end effect would be the same if the non-participants are considered to have zero scores and are listed as the lowest scores in the list, which would not affect the team score unless the entire team did not have at least four scores across both challenges.

Perhaps someone who actually knows how this works could confirm.

Message edited by author 2018-07-08 13:40:26.
07/08/2018 01:52:46 PM · #4
Bob has pretty much got it. In the last DPL, at least, if there were only three team entries, score 4 would indeed be a zero. So with scores of say 4,5,6,0 the average would be 15/4 rather than 15/3. Hence why it is always better for the team to get something in rather than risk a 0.
07/08/2018 02:15:56 PM · #5
Originally posted by SaraR:

Hence why it is always better for the team to get something in rather than risk a 0.

And by four different participants.
07/08/2018 02:58:06 PM · #6
Got it. You are confirming what I assumed. Thank you all.
07/09/2018 06:54:04 PM · #7
nevermind... I answered my question. :D


Message edited by author 2018-07-09 19:00:20.
07/09/2018 06:59:56 PM · #8
Originally posted by Lydia:

I understand that if we don't have at least four entries into any challenge that we get zeros for the others we did not enter.

But, what I don't understand is if we only have seven team members on our league and only one score per week per person... how will anyone have the required eight entries per week?

If this has been asked before, I apologize.


someone please correct me here if I am wrong, but as I understand it we get four entries counting towards the team score for the *Round*, which comprises two challenges - the four entries do not have to occur in a single challenge
07/09/2018 07:13:11 PM · #9
Originally posted by krnodil:

Originally posted by Lydia:

I understand that if we don't have at least four entries into any challenge that we get zeros for the others we did not enter.

But, what I don't understand is if we only have seven team members on our league and only one score per week per person... how will anyone have the required eight entries per week?

If this has been asked before, I apologize.


someone please correct me here if I am wrong, but as I understand it we get four entries counting towards the team score for the *Round*, which comprises two challenges - the four entries do not have to occur in a single challenge


This is true, as far as I remember.
07/09/2018 07:33:09 PM · #10
If you have a seven person team, you can actually have 14 scores to choose your best 4 from! You just can't use any team member's score more than once. So you have to have at least four members enter one of the two challenges each week to get four unique scores. Does that make sense?
07/09/2018 07:47:42 PM · #11
Originally posted by Melethia:

If you have a seven person team, you can actually have 14 scores to choose your best 4 from! You just can't use any team member's score more than once. So you have to have at least four members enter one of the two challenges each week to get four unique scores. Does that make sense?


It does, Deb, and I think it's what some of us are assuming and hoping :)
07/09/2018 07:52:04 PM · #12
Okay....so if your team members enter both challenges in a week, the best score gets counted even though it may be against a different team? Or are the "rounds" for both challenges, and the teams Duke it out through both the challenges for the week?
07/09/2018 10:44:10 PM · #13
Originally posted by krnodil:

Originally posted by Lydia:

I understand that if we don't have at least four entries into any challenge that we get zeros for the others we did not enter.

But, what I don't understand is if we only have seven team members on our league and only one score per week per person... how will anyone have the required eight entries per week?

If this has been asked before, I apologize.


someone please correct me here if I am wrong, but as I understand it we get four entries counting towards the team score for the *Round*, which comprises two challenges - the four entries do not have to occur in a single challenge


This is true. Which is why I answered my own question. I went and read the FAQ for DPL. Ha!

07/09/2018 10:54:47 PM · #14
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Okay....so if your team members enter both challenges in a week, the best score gets counted even though it may be against a different team? Or are the "rounds" for both challenges, and the teams Duke it out through both the challenges for the week?


Round 1 pits two teams against each other, and involves two challenges - Blue and Inside. So if you entered both challenges, only one of your scores can count, but it's all still the same round, so against the same team. Make sense?
07/10/2018 12:30:24 AM · #15
A bit of history (I may not be remembering this exactly as it happened but the gist of it is good):

Before DPL there was WPL (World Photography League) which was organized by some dedicated members and run as a "side challenge" using DPC's challenges as a platform, in much the same way as a bowling league would use their local Bowling Alley as a venue. WPL was wildly successful, but it generated a lot of angst amongst the folks who didn't participate because they felt that the scoring of the challenges was being adversely affected by competitive voting and such. At the time we had hundreds of entrants per challenge, way more than we usually do now.

Eventually, DPC and WPL got together and created DPL, an official, site-operated iteration of WPL. This worked pretty well, but still complaints were dogging us, and many attempts were made to satisfy everyone, eventually resulting, more-or-less, with the baby being tossed out with the bathwater. Once the thing was GONE, of course, the cries to reinstate it began, and promises were made but never followed through on. I think I remember that some version of the side-challenge WPL happened during that hiatus, but I'm not sure.

Be that as it may, and more relevant to this discussion, through the various iterations of League competition different scoring modes have been experimented with. If I recall correctly (and I may be off on the chronology here because my brain is calcifying in my old age) we started off with head-to-head scoring. That is to say, when Team X played Team Y, after the challenge results were in the top score of X was matched against the top score of Y, 2nd-best against second-best, and so forth. So if Team X simply overwhelmed Team Y, they would have a 4-0 score in that match. It was often frustrating because you could score goose-eggs with scores that were literally only fractions apart.

So then we tried adding up the scores and averaging them to get a team score, and a TEAM won or lost the match. This was more equitable, but it also was flawed. In particular, some challenges just lend themselves to higher scores across the board than others (a "sunsets" challenge would get MUCH higher scores than a "garbage" challenge), and it was actually the case that a Blue Ribbon in the Garbage challenge would find itself outscored by the 10th-place finisher in the Sunsets challenge, stuff like that. This didn't go down well.

At some point we started using percentiles instead of raw scores to eliminate that gap; at this point, all Blue Ribbons became equal, though as you slid down the scale the percentiles still start to spread out differently if there is a large discrepancy in the number of people who enter the weeks two challenges.

And that's what we have now: all scores are converted to percentiles, the top four percentiles are averaged, and that produces the percentile for the team for that round of DPL. Always bearing in mind that no team member can have more than one image counted in a given week, meaning that at least four team members must enter a challenge every week to fill the rota, so to speak. And if there are not four valid entries, then (as has been pointed out) a Zero will be used to fill the empty slot(s).

I hope that covers it :-)
07/10/2018 01:15:54 AM · #16
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

And that's what we have now: all scores are converted to percentiles, the top four percentiles are averaged, and that produces the percentile for the team for that round of DPL. Always bearing in mind that no team member can have more than one image counted in a given week, meaning that at least four team members must enter a challenge every week to fill the rota, so to speak. And if there are not four valid entries, then (as has been pointed out) a Zero will be used to fill the empty slot(s).

Very helpful, Bear. Thanks!

Maybe next season we could incorporate a bonus/penalty for voting participation.
07/10/2018 01:18:18 AM · #17
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

...
Very helpful, Bear. Thanks!

Maybe next season we could incorporate a bonus/penalty for voting participation.


:(
07/10/2018 02:51:10 AM · #18
Originally posted by nam:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

...
Very helpful, Bear. Thanks!

Maybe next season we could incorporate a bonus/penalty for voting participation.


:(

Better??
07/10/2018 04:30:38 AM · #19
I think you have a good point Art, good idea, voting is just as important in the DPL as submitting IMHO, it is all about getting the site kicking again and I think this idea would be good for that.
07/10/2018 07:35:36 AM · #20
Art you are so wonderful.
07/10/2018 09:27:44 AM · #21
I think the heart of this question is that you need a minimum of four participants each week. Any number less than that would result in a score of 0 added to the team total for each of the missing scores. The number of photographs doesn't matter in that only the highest score (percentile) from each contributing member counts, but entering multiple challenges gives you two shots at scoring high (or at least it should LOL).

Message edited by author 2018-07-10 09:28:26.
07/10/2018 10:03:17 AM · #22
Originally posted by MAK:

I think you have a good point Art, good idea, voting is just as important in the DPL as submitting IMHO, it is all about getting the site kicking again and I think this idea would be good for that.


I agree. After a good turn out for Blue, the voting has dropped off for Inside. I had 130+ votes for blue and only 82 for Inside with 14 hrs to go. As there are 123 entries, it's obvious quite a few participants have not bothered to vote. I know there will be some last minute voters, but I doubt it'll go up by 50 votes!

Message edited by author 2018-07-10 10:04:04.
07/10/2018 10:09:56 AM · #23
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

Okay....so if your team members enter both challenges in a week, the best score gets counted even though it may be against a different team? Or are the "rounds" for both challenges, and the teams Duke it out through both the challenges for the week?


Originally posted by Melethia:

Round 1 pits two teams against each other, and involves two challenges - Blue and Inside. So if you entered both challenges, only one of your scores can count, but it's all still the same round, so against the same team. Make sense?


Thank you, Deb!
07/10/2018 10:13:05 AM · #24
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

Maybe next season we could incorporate a bonus/penalty for voting participation.


Bonus would be better than penalty. People would respond to that whereas as soon as you start taking penalties, right-brain people dig their heels in on principle.
07/10/2018 11:34:52 AM · #25
Originally posted by NikonJeb:

. . . Bonus would be better than penalty. . . .


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