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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> DPL 4: COMMENTS AND OBSERVATIONS
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06/17/2018 09:04:44 PM · #1
After way too long an absence, Digital Photography League is finally back in play :-) This seems like a good time to touch on some issues that will greatly affect the future of DPL and, indeed, DPC going forward.

********************

VOTING

To long-term success, it's vital that participants also VOTE. It seems obvious, but we have seen a dramatic drop over the last couple of years in voting statistics. And the problem with low voting numbers is that outlier votes (the odd 1 or 2 vote) carry a disproportionate weight. Beyond that, if the number of votes given in a challenge is lower than the number of entries (which has often been the case lately) well, that's just plain discouraging to participants. While we are aware that some members offer as a reason for not voting that they "cannot be objective", we believe at the current level of participation that simply doesn't hold water. We can't survive that way. If you're gonna enter, you really need to vote. And of course, any and all votes from non-entrants are always welcome. Internet connections, pretty much across the board, are much faster these days, so there's really no good reason not to vote.

DPL is set up such that players are not given the opportunity to vote on their teammates' images. In order for DPL to be successful, it is critical that players not only vote on the rest of the images in the challenge, but they do their best to vote all images fairly. The practice of giving low scores to all the “good” images in a challenge in the hopes of improving the standing of ones own “good” image will not be tolerated. The widespread use of this technique will bring league play to a screeching halt. The SC will do our best to monitor voting and take swift action if we find any irregularities.

In short, then, for DPL to remain viable and healthy, we NEED all participants to compete in good faith. There's nothing at stake here but virtual ribbons and badges. We encourage (even demand, as much as that's possible in this environment) all of you to vote happily and cheerfully, using the golden rule, to recognize quality and effort wherever you find it without regard for how fairly you feel your own image is being treated.

Can we do that? It's ABSOLUTELY the secret to the health of DPC/DPL going forward; friendly, encouraging support of all individuals. Let's give it our collective best!

TEAM COMMUNICATIONS

Each DPL team will have its own, dedicated private thread once the league goes live on the 25th. Every team is encouraged to use that thread to bond & communicate & grow together. You may discuss your images and how to improve them at will. You may offer whatever specific processing suggestions you have, including step-by-step instructions for very specific effects.

What you may NOT do is process a teammate's image for them. We have to take this on faith, since it can't really be verified, but PLEASE don't do this :-)

You also may NOT use your private forums to discuss entries made by non-team members, particularly with an idea to how they should be voted upon. This should go without saying, but we are saying it here :-)

SUMMARY

If we all follow the Golden Rule and treat all competitors the way we wish to be treated ourselves, we're going to have a great time, and DPL will become a regular feature in DPC programming!

Message edited by GeneralE - Fixed tiny typo.
06/17/2018 09:22:27 PM · #2
well said, Robert
06/17/2018 09:26:02 PM · #3
Thumbs up emoji!
06/17/2018 09:28:17 PM · #4
Sending a link to this thread to my team and saving myself the trouble of writing it. As 21.gif hopper said, "Well said, Robert."
06/17/2018 09:49:11 PM · #5
Was wondering when we were going to do this again! Sounds like fun!
06/17/2018 10:08:42 PM · #6
Sounds great! I am excited.

One question about the dedicated private thread. I have my preferences set to notify me by email when someone sends me a private message. When I get and email, I get a notification on my phone, so I know almost immediately when I get a new message. But the last dedicated private thread for DPL 3 was more like a forum thread. I don't get emails for those and can't figure out how to change my preferences so that I do. I would like to be notified, so that I don't miss any messages from team mates. Does anyone know how to do this?
06/17/2018 10:12:55 PM · #7
Originally posted by sjhuls:

Sounds great! I am excited.

One question about the dedicated private thread. I have my preferences set to notify me by email when someone sends me a private message. When I get and email, I get a notification on my phone, so I know almost immediately when I get a new message. But the last dedicated private thread for DPL 3 was more like a forum thread. I don't get emails for those and can't figure out how to change my preferences so that I do. I would like to be notified, so that I don't miss any messages from team mates. Does anyone know how to do this?


+ Really important to know immediately.
06/17/2018 10:25:36 PM · #8
Originally posted by sjhuls:

Sounds great! I am excited.

One question about the dedicated private thread. I have my preferences set to notify me by email when someone sends me a private message. When I get and email, I get a notification on my phone, so I know almost immediately when I get a new message. But the last dedicated private thread for DPL 3 was more like a forum thread. I don't get emails for those and can't figure out how to change my preferences so that I do. I would like to be notified, so that I don't miss any messages from team mates. Does anyone know how to do this?

At the top of EVERY forum thread in DPC, on the left side, is a drop-down called "Thread Options". One of the options is to get an email for replies to that thread.
06/17/2018 10:27:33 PM · #9
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by sjhuls:

Sounds great! I am excited.

One question about the dedicated private thread. I have my preferences set to notify me by email when someone sends me a private message. When I get and email, I get a notification on my phone, so I know almost immediately when I get a new message. But the last dedicated private thread for DPL 3 was more like a forum thread. I don't get emails for those and can't figure out how to change my preferences so that I do. I would like to be notified, so that I don't miss any messages from team mates. Does anyone know how to do this?

At the top of EVERY forum thread in DPC, on the left side, is a drop-down called "Thread Options". One of the options is to get an email for replies to that thread.


Well duh! Thanks, Robert!
06/17/2018 10:29:43 PM · #10
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by sjhuls:

Sounds great! I am excited.

One question about the dedicated private thread. I have my preferences set to notify me by email when someone sends me a private message. When I get and email, I get a notification on my phone, so I know almost immediately when I get a new message. But the last dedicated private thread for DPL 3 was more like a forum thread. I don't get emails for those and can't figure out how to change my preferences so that I do. I would like to be notified, so that I don't miss any messages from team mates. Does anyone know how to do this?

At the top of EVERY forum thread in DPC, on the left side, is a drop-down called "Thread Options". One of the options is to get an email for replies to that thread.


I am either blind or not seeing it. Is it because I am not currently a member?
06/17/2018 10:36:52 PM · #11
Originally posted by sjhuls:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by sjhuls:

Sounds great! I am excited.

One question about the dedicated private thread. I have my preferences set to notify me by email when someone sends me a private message. When I get and email, I get a notification on my phone, so I know almost immediately when I get a new message. But the last dedicated private thread for DPL 3 was more like a forum thread. I don't get emails for those and can't figure out how to change my preferences so that I do. I would like to be notified, so that I don't miss any messages from team mates. Does anyone know how to do this?

At the top of EVERY forum thread in DPC, on the left side, is a drop-down called "Thread Options". One of the options is to get an email for replies to that thread.


I am either blind or not seeing it. Is it because I am not currently a member?


Maybe. It took me quite a while, too, Jenn. See the page numbers? Look just to the right. The box is not particularly small - it's white with black lettering.
06/17/2018 10:45:00 PM · #12
Originally posted by nam:

Originally posted by sjhuls:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by sjhuls:

Sounds great! I am excited.

One question about the dedicated private thread. I have my preferences set to notify me by email when someone sends me a private message. When I get and email, I get a notification on my phone, so I know almost immediately when I get a new message. But the last dedicated private thread for DPL 3 was more like a forum thread. I don't get emails for those and can't figure out how to change my preferences so that I do. I would like to be notified, so that I don't miss any messages from team mates. Does anyone know how to do this?

At the top of EVERY forum thread in DPC, on the left side, is a drop-down called "Thread Options". One of the options is to get an email for replies to that thread.


I am either blind or not seeing it. Is it because I am not currently a member?


Maybe. It took me quite a while, too, Jenn. See the page numbers? Look just to the right. The box is not particularly small - it's white with black lettering.


No it's a member only thing. Since I was planning on renewing my membership in a week anyway, I just decided to do it right now to check it out. Once I paid my membership the box appeared. Good piece of information for those not planning on becoming members for DPL.
06/18/2018 12:04:23 AM · #13
Originally posted by sjhuls:

Originally posted by nam:

Originally posted by sjhuls:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by sjhuls:

Sounds great! I am excited.

One question about the dedicated private thread. I have my preferences set to notify me by email when someone sends me a private message. When I get and email, I get a notification on my phone, so I know almost immediately when I get a new message. But the last dedicated private thread for DPL 3 was more like a forum thread. I don't get emails for those and can't figure out how to change my preferences so that I do. I would like to be notified, so that I don't miss any messages from team mates. Does anyone know how to do this?

At the top of EVERY forum thread in DPC, on the left side, is a drop-down called "Thread Options". One of the options is to get an email for replies to that thread.


I am either blind or not seeing it. Is it because I am not currently a member?


Maybe. It took me quite a while, too, Jenn. See the page numbers? Look just to the right. The box is not particularly small - it's white with black lettering.


No it's a member only thing. Since I was planning on renewing my membership in a week anyway, I just decided to do it right now to check it out. Once I paid my membership the box appeared. Good piece of information for those not planning on becoming members for DPL.


I love you nice BLUE shirt!! Welcome back!!!
06/18/2018 12:21:56 AM · #14
It seems to me that Team Leaders might encourage ALL their Team members to buy in for the duration of DPL, since you can buy a month at a time for 5 bucks a pop. The significant advantage of doing so would be to have a workshop into which they can post their in-progress challenge entries.
06/18/2018 01:13:05 AM · #15
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

It seems to me that Team Leaders might encourage ALL their Team members to buy in for the duration of DPL, since you can buy a month at a time for 5 bucks a pop. The significant advantage of doing so would be to have a workshop into which they can post their in-progress challenge entries.


We’ve sort of made it a requirement to be on our team...kind of, sort of, not - but yes???? Here is where the thumb pinchers come in handy!!
06/18/2018 02:11:32 AM · #16
Thank you Robert for your positive input regarding voting and all. I would like to add one thing: last DPL (2015) I noticed that voting decreased dramatically once the first round ended, so in the semi-finals and in the finals the number of participation really dropped. It was like people were not interested because they didn’t make it to those finals. I really hope all participant keep on voting till the end, also when they are not directly involved anymore.
06/18/2018 03:16:40 AM · #17
Originally posted by neenee1999:

Was wondering when we were going to do this again! Sounds like fun!


Very soon ?..?.!!!
06/18/2018 07:55:13 AM · #18
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

It seems to me that Team Leaders might encourage ALL their Team members to buy in for the duration of DPL, since you can buy a month at a time for 5 bucks a pop. The significant advantage of doing so would be to have a workshop into which they can post their in-progress challenge entries.


So would two months do it for all the rounds? I'm sure the answer is there for me to ferret out, but I'm feeling very lazy this morning.

I guess mid-June to mid-August would do it for most . . . with the possibility of needing to add a month for play-offs. Schedule is right at the top of the League information.

Message edited by author 2018-06-18 08:02:45.
06/18/2018 08:23:49 AM · #19
[quote=Bear_Music]

TEAM COMMUNICATIONS

Each DPL team will have its own, dedicated private thread once the league goes live on the 25th. Every team is encouraged to use that thread to bond & communicate & grow together. You may discuss your images and how to improve them at will. You may offer whatever specific processing suggestions you have, including step-by-step instructions for very specific effects.

What you may NOT do is process a teammate's image for them. We have to take this on faith, since it can't really be verified, but PLEASE don't do this :-)

You also may NOT use your private forums to discuss entries made by non-team members, particularly with an idea to how they should be voted upon. This should go without saying, but we are saying it here :-) [/unquote]


It is this part of the DPL that prompted me not to enter any challenge during DPL. It gives DPL participants an unfair advantage over non-participants. Once I got used to not entering for awhile, it became easier and easier to not even look at what challenges are posted.

Tim

Message edited by author 2018-06-18 08:24:21.
06/18/2018 08:44:02 AM · #20
I certainly understand how you feel, but given that there exists thousands of hours of free photoshop educational videos on youtube and countless other photography forums and peer groups, I'm not sure you can make a very strong argument for an unfair advantage. You could make a much stronger argument for unfair advantage for people living in especially scenic parts of the world, or people with particularly expensive gear, but no one seems to mind that too much.

It's your right to not participate, but I think you should. How happy would you be to take down all the cheaters? :)

Originally posted by atupdate:

It gives DPL participants an unfair advantage over non-participants.
06/18/2018 08:48:38 AM · #21
Originally posted by atupdate:

It is this part of the DPL that prompted me not to enter any challenge during DPL. It gives DPL participants an unfair advantage over non-participants. Once I got used to not entering for awhile, it became easier and easier to not even look at what challenges are posted.

Tim

You can do all of this with anyone you like via PM, just not in a dedicated thread. Pretty much the same rules apply -- you can accept all the advice/suggestions you want, as long as you actually edit the image yourself.

In a way, you have the advantage in that your advisor can choose whether or not to vote on your entry while team members are completely blocked from doing so.
06/18/2018 09:28:39 AM · #22
We're all bought in and good to go for the year ... so do another in the winter, eh?! LOL

So I'm assuming that the team rosters can now be considered final? No seeding issues or nothing?

For other teams who are wondering about easy of communication and notifications on team threads, our team abandoned the dedicated thread very early on last year in favor of a group PM for the course of the season. It gets long, but we didn't have to monkey with thread notifications and you could actually respond via email if need be. Worked so well that we started an "Until DPL 4" discussion that has been in use ever since, currently at 51 pages. LOL
06/18/2018 09:37:25 AM · #23
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by atupdate:

It is this part of the DPL that prompted me not to enter any challenge during DPL. It gives DPL participants an unfair advantage over non-participants. Once I got used to not entering for awhile, it became easier and easier to not even look at what challenges are posted.

Tim

You can do all of this with anyone you like via PM, just not in a dedicated thread. Pretty much the same rules apply -- you can accept all the advice/suggestions you want, as long as you actually edit the image yourself.

In a way, you have the advantage in that your advisor can choose whether or not to vote on your entry while team members are completely blocked from doing so.


Once upon a time, there used to be side challenges here. many in fact. These small groups of people would comment on their own side challenge entries. Proper ethics would be not to vote on any images you see before the challenge (official weekly challenges). There was many that would help others improve and learn.
06/18/2018 04:54:51 PM · #24
Originally posted by Ja-9:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

It seems to me that Team Leaders might encourage ALL their Team members to buy in for the duration of DPL, since you can buy a month at a time for 5 bucks a pop. The significant advantage of doing so would be to have a workshop into which they can post their in-progress challenge entries.


We’ve sort of made it a requirement to be on our team...kind of, sort of, not - but yes???? Here is where the thumb pinchers come in handy!!


My team's only requirements are a blood oath and a license to kill.
06/18/2018 05:21:17 PM · #25
Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by Ja-9:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

It seems to me that Team Leaders might encourage ALL their Team members to buy in for the duration of DPL, since you can buy a month at a time for 5 bucks a pop. The significant advantage of doing so would be to have a workshop into which they can post their in-progress challenge entries.


We’ve sort of made it a requirement to be on our team...kind of, sort of, not - but yes???? Here is where the thumb pinchers come in handy!!


My team's only requirements are a blood oath and a license to kill.


Love your enthusiasm!
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