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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> What is your definition of Extended free study
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11/15/2017 08:42:06 AM · #1
I'm noticing most of the work in the extended free studies are more art "Photoshop" than actual photography. Have I missed something or are we still a Digital Photo competition site? I get the aspect of having more freedom to enhance a photo, but when I start to see purely work that has been created not with a camera but with software on a computer I wonder if we have lost site? Opinions please.
11/15/2017 09:08:47 AM · #2
My opinion is that even the most extreme and manipulated image in 'Extended' still falls under the 'Digital Photography' remit purely because of the ruleset. Digital Photography covers a very wide spectrum of types of images - just look at what is taught and produced at universities for example. I don't think you will ever 'see purely work that has been created not with a camera but with software on a computer' simply because that would be a DQ. Personally,I like that the boundaries are pushed with experimentation. I like both ends of the spectrum on DPC and am just as happy with 'Minimal' as I am with 'Extended'. Different approaches but they both have the capacity to surprise - both the photographer whilst creating and the end viewer - and that's the important thing for me.
11/15/2017 09:22:52 AM · #3
Originally posted by coronamv:

I'm noticing most of the work in the extended free studies are more art "Photoshop" than actual photography. Have I missed something or are we still a Digital Photo competition site? I get the aspect of having more freedom to enhance a photo, but when I start to see purely work that has been created not with a camera but with software on a computer I wonder if we have lost site? Opinions please.


To me it looks great to see all those "photoshopped" PICTURES. I was almost begging to see this type of challenge on DPC. A Challenge once a month where we can use extended EDITING on our entries is not going to kill anyone and definitely not the better photographers on DPC. Every contestant needs to give the original picture(s) to the SC.(at least for the front page finalists) taken with a camera that records Exchangeable image file format. If you cannot provide this exif file..... well... DQ. Computer created artwork cannot provide you with original unmodified exif. So it's still photography whatever the amount of editing was applied to it. We are almost 2018 and just look around or surf the net to see how photography is changing.
Anyhow, I do not want to get stick on old trends and will always try out new technologies, new techniques, etc... This one challenge a month is the perfect place to show off your skills in extended editing. There are MANY other challenge to show your "pure" photography skills.

11/15/2017 09:27:21 AM · #4
Also, photographic manipulation and experimentation is as old as photography itself. Here's one from 70 years ago by Val Telberg…

75546_std.jpg

and one by Lissitsky from 100 years or so ago…

el-lissitzky.jpg

Photographic collage or montage are small subsections of 'Photography'. Adding 'Digital' to the beginning doesn't make any difference to that.
11/15/2017 09:34:20 AM · #5
Coincidentally, when I did photography at college in 1994 or so I did a digital re-enactment of that Lissitsky image for a project using Photoshop instead of the darkroom (although we still did most work in the darkroom back then).
11/15/2017 10:37:58 AM · #6
I have had fun exploring new ways to blend images in the monthly Extended Free Study. Hopefully, you can find some photographic value in a few of the images that composite multiple photographs. If not, you can take heart in the fact that less than one in every five challenges allow it.
11/15/2017 12:29:08 PM · #7
My take on Extended Free Studies are they are open to any kind of entry, including even those that would meet the Minimal or Standard rule sets. It is, after all, a Free Study. I do prefer entries that have some identity with photography at some level at least.
11/15/2017 02:38:12 PM · #8
I think where the question of whether extended FS entries are actual photography becomes an issue is with images along the lines of those that would appear in a flip and blend challenge. That said I've entered a couple of those myself.
11/15/2017 05:35:45 PM · #9
I see where this form of art is interesting. I just remember when this site was about photography and not as much manipulation. Maybe it is me. I joined the site many moons ago and left for a few years. When I came back I noticed less photography and more photoshop. I do get where manipulation to improve photos were done a long time before computers. Many masters experimented. Ansel Adams was a master with manipulation. I just always took this site to be about photography and less about what you can create with software. Maybe I'm a relic from the past.
11/15/2017 07:08:36 PM · #10
I understand your concern. BUT, I know that we got "here" by people wanting to have freedom to shoot and edit to their heart's desire.

They said, we have a "regular" editing Free Study... and they wanted a freedom Free Study.

In the Extended FS, one can enter any amount of editing one wants. In the regular FS, be sure of the Standard Editing rules.

It all works, I think!
11/16/2017 03:23:09 PM · #11
I'm still learning how to manipulate photos into the FS but I love the photos I see from the FS photos. The ones I love most are quite ingenious. They are truly pieces of art. One of my favorite photos turned into art is by Anita (Neat)
Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1199482.jpg

We still have minimal challenges in which the purists enjoy entering. I think if you wish to enter minimal photos there are many challenges with Standard Study in which you can enter.
11/16/2017 07:58:26 PM · #12
Originally posted by Cyrilda:

I think if you wish to enter minimal photos there are many challenges with Standard Study in which you can enter.


You can enter a minimal image into any rule set.
11/16/2017 09:33:09 PM · #13
FWIW I don't bother entering Extended FS, because seems that Advanced (or whatever the frick it's called now) is as daring as people are willing to get...while images that actually do make use of the Extended leeway in terms of PS get voted down due to too much PS. Can't win.
11/16/2017 10:52:32 PM · #14
Originally posted by snaffles:

FWIW I don't bother entering Extended FS, because seems that Advanced (or whatever the frick it's called now) is as daring as people are willing to get...while images that actually do make use of the Extended leeway in terms of PS get voted down due to too much PS. Can't win.

My experience has been that people vote the extended challenges based on the same criteria they always use, which is how strongly the image appeals to them. I've had standard edited entries both do well and bomb in these challenges. Sometimes the more open ruleset gives the photographer more leeway to screw up their entry. But it's good to experiment sometimes.

Message edited by author 2017-11-16 22:54:07.
11/16/2017 11:56:57 PM · #15
Originally posted by coronamv:

I'm noticing most of the work in the extended free studies are more art "Photoshop" than actual photography. Have I missed something or are we still a Digital Photo competition site? I get the aspect of having more freedom to enhance a photo, but when I start to see purely work that has been created not with a camera but with software on a computer I wonder if we have lost site? Opinions please.


I challenge you & anyone who agrees with you to describe to me exactly what it is that makes 'actual photography' visibly different from 'art photoshop.'

If I blend 2 exposures together how can you tell by looking at it whether it's a double exposure in-camera or blended in photoshop? Why exactly does it matter to you?

Why do you think that using photoshop threatens loosing this site?

I would really like to know.
11/17/2017 12:43:32 AM · #16
For the longest time, we only had an occasional FS. Then it became a monthly FS. In recent years an additional monthly "Extended" FS was added. Nothing was taken away. It is a bonus for those that have a desire/inclination/interest in entering and/or voting. If it's not your cup of tea, it seems easy enough to pretend it doesn't exist.

That said, you are completely within your right to post your concerns about it. Just seems pointless to me, especially considering the number of photography vs. digital art debates we have had over the years.
11/17/2017 03:25:56 AM · #17
is it not better to close this thread down. The challenge is ongoing and with all these comments and opinions it seriously affects the voting results.
11/17/2017 03:37:09 AM · #18
Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:

is it not better to close this thread down. The challenge is ongoing and with all these comments and opinions it seriously affects the voting results.

I'm gonna disagree. Discussions about topical challenges and interpretations of subject matter might influence voters, but this discussion isn't going to change anyone's vote, IMO.
11/17/2017 04:30:58 AM · #19
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

Originally posted by snaffles:

FWIW I don't bother entering Extended FS, because seems that Advanced (or whatever the frick it's called now) is as daring as people are willing to get...while images that actually do make use of the Extended leeway in terms of PS get voted down due to too much PS. Can't win.

My experience has been that people vote the extended challenges based on the same criteria they always use, which is how strongly the image appeals to them. I've had standard edited entries both do well and bomb in these challenges. Sometimes the more open ruleset gives the photographer more leeway to screw up their entry. But it's good to experiment sometimes.


I agree. If you look at the history of the extended free studies, the results are pretty consistent. Good strong well composed images will do well, irrespective of the type of editing applied.
11/17/2017 10:18:02 AM · #20
+1

I was very pleased to ribbon with a classic entry in an extended FS

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1206756.jpg

11/17/2017 04:49:06 PM · #21
Extended Free Study = Freedom of expression.
11/18/2017 08:48:56 PM · #22
Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

For the longest time, we only had an occasional FS. Then it became a monthly FS. In recent years an additional monthly "Extended" FS was added. Nothing was taken away. It is a bonus for those that have a desire/inclination/interest in entering and/or voting. If it's not your cup of tea, it seems easy enough to pretend it doesn't exist.

That said, you are completely within your right to post your concerns about it. Just seems pointless to me, especially considering the number of photography vs. digital art debates we have had over the years.

I disappeared from the site for a extended "no pun intended" period of time. My thoughts are old school in a sense. I guess my question "and we have had it before" is when have we moved away too far from the original intent of photography on this site. The challenges used to be a shorter time frame. This made it more challenging to go out and get the shot. It seems the site may have moved in a direction I'm not fond of, but if it works for everyone then it's just me.
11/18/2017 09:12:23 PM · #23
Originally posted by coronamv:

Originally posted by Art Roflmao:

For the longest time, we only had an occasional FS. Then it became a monthly FS. In recent years an additional monthly "Extended" FS was added. Nothing was taken away. It is a bonus for those that have a desire/inclination/interest in entering and/or voting. If it's not your cup of tea, it seems easy enough to pretend it doesn't exist.

That said, you are completely within your right to post your concerns about it. Just seems pointless to me, especially considering the number of photography vs. digital art debates we have had over the years.

I disappeared from the site for a extended "no pun intended" period of time. My thoughts are old school in a sense. I guess my question "and we have had it before" is when have we moved away too far from the original intent of photography on this site. The challenges used to be a shorter time frame. This made it more challenging to go out and get the shot. It seems the site may have moved in a direction I'm not fond of, but if it works for everyone then it's just me.


You entered 25 challenges in all those years....
11/19/2017 12:52:07 PM · #24
Originally posted by jomari:

Extended Free Study = Freedom of expression.


Standard Free Study = Law and order.
11/19/2017 10:13:56 PM · #25
Originally posted by posthumous:

Originally posted by jomari:

Extended Free Study = Freedom of expression.


Standard Free Study = Law and order.


Minimal Editing = Waterboarding
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