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07/24/2017 02:15:02 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Thinking out loud here:
Now that DPC will allow us to enter an oversize image and will automatically resize it to 1200 pixels, maybe we should just eliminate ALL post-processing post-download (no dust cloning, no sharpening, no rotation) and require entry of the actual full-size JPG WITH the EXIF appended :-) |
Wait? We could clear dust bunnies in Minimal?
... but otherwise, yep, I'd be for that change. However, it still wouldn't change the fact that we can apply a boatload of in-camera filters, special effects, etc... |
Right, that's my point; that's a hypothetical SOOC ruleset with no wiggle-room: if the EXIF doesn't show any modification, you're good to go. |
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07/24/2017 02:25:37 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Thinking out loud here:
Now that DPC will allow us to enter an oversize image and will automatically resize it to 1200 pixels, maybe we should just eliminate ALL post-processing post-download (no dust cloning, no sharpening, no rotation) and require entry of the actual full-size JPG WITH the EXIF appended :-) |
You could try it once with a Minimal challenge and just flag as Extra Rules ... but it's probably gonna be a problem for those shooting in portrait mode if the site doesn't auto-rotate the image too ... |
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07/24/2017 04:50:38 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Elaine:
Since all photos are processed, does it really make a difference if it is done in the camera or on a computer? ... |
Yes, actually, it does - if you're shooting for the challenge in the spirit of what "Minimal" means. That is to get the shot right in the beginning - as Robert pointed out earlier, to mimic the challenge of shooting like you did with film. |
It makes a difference for the challenge, but as a photographer isn't the end goal to end up with the image you envisioned? In that sense, it makes no difference how you get there. The only reason to master Minimal is to enter these challenges. |
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07/24/2017 05:51:40 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Thinking out loud here:
Now that DPC will allow us to enter an oversize image and will automatically resize it to 1200 pixels, maybe we should just eliminate ALL post-processing post-download (no dust cloning, no sharpening, no rotation) and require entry of the actual full-size JPG WITH the EXIF appended :-) |
Wait? We could clear dust bunnies in Minimal?
... but otherwise, yep, I'd be for that change. However, it still wouldn't change the fact that we can apply a boatload of in-camera filters, special effects, etc... |
Right, that's my point; that's a hypothetical SOOC ruleset with no wiggle-room: if the EXIF doesn't show any modification, you're good to go. |
Perfect! Sign me up. |
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07/24/2017 06:04:26 PM · #30 |
My $0.02 USD?
Keep minimal, post the ruleset as "In the spirit of the original Minimal concept", and let the voters decide the winners based on their perception of whether the entry is what it should be.
That way, the people who love Minimal and actively seek them out get their chance to have what should be pretty close to the spirit of the ruleset as it was originally before cameras became so complex. Make it an honor challenge in that you ask the entrants to really do this in a true, old-style DPC manner.
This way, the voters would be the guiding influence on the end result of the Minimal challenges, and remove the burden from SC.
Survey the concept to see if the idea would get any traction. Run it on a trial basis for a six month period with a survey at the end.
Crazy?
ETA: I'm not a big Minimal fan as I'm lazy and love to crop, sharpen, play with filters, desat, and other stuff, but every now and then I like to enter one just to push myself out of my comfort zone. I know there are quite a few folks that like Minimal and I think it would be sad to see it go. I do think that the in-camera availability of enhancements has truly hindered the original idea of Minimal.
Message edited by author 2017-07-24 18:07:51.
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07/24/2017 07:57:37 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by Elaine:
It makes a difference for the challenge, but as a photographer isn't the end goal to end up with the image you envisioned? In that sense, it makes no difference how you get there. The only reason to master Minimal is to enter these challenges. |
Respectfully, no, not really, to both questions / statements.
A good photographer will know their tools.
1) Camera - its' settings, location of various controls / buttons, how to use AEL, flash, etc...
2) Ability to see with a photographers' eye.
3) After the capture - what then? Post process, print, frame, etc...
4) Ability to skillfully use software to make basic adjustments, up to fantastic creations of digital art.
If one was to search out literature (online or print) there are vast amounts of guides, resources, how-to's for pretty much all of the above "tools" that a photographer should have.
Examples:
Patterson - "Photography of Natural Things"
Peterson - "Understanding Shutter Speed"
Shaw - "Closeups in Nature"
Freeman - "The Photographer's Mind"
Ang - "Introduction to Digital Photography"
Handbooks for nearly all major cameras by several well known authors.
Guidebooks and how-to's on all major software applications (Photoshop, Lightroom, PSP).
Many, many, more ...
The point?
DPChallenge is about the challenge, competing, learning, on many aspects of photography. The challenges are there for fun yes, but IMO the different rulesets all present different opportunities for learning, especially the extreme bookends (Minimal and Expert).
* Minimal - Learning, and or illustrating, your mastery of the primary tool you have; your camera. Knowing what to look for before you press that shutter. It's not easy, and for some not even a fun exercise. That's ok.
* Expert - Here you need to have decent photos to start with and a vision for your end product. What is it you want to present? What's the best approach to gather the various photo collections you need to reach your vision? Good skills in the post-processing area will serve you well. It shows in the final product presented each month. Expert isn't for everybody either, and that's ok as well (yes, I really said that).
As to the statements quoted ... sure, you want to have a photo that you like. It's not always the end goal however - many photography exercises are for learning (example - take 10 photos within 50 feet of your back door; take a photo while zooming in on the subject; action photos; macro photos; flash photography ...). All of these exercises, including Minimal challenges, can be helpful if you look at them as a challenge and learning opportunity.
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07/24/2017 08:39:45 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by snaffles:
... and then dared to do something very minor like tweak it by a couple of degrees in order to level the horizon ... |
Therein lies the challenge. Get the horizon level on initial capture. Minimal still forces forethought before you push the shutter. |
Yeah...easy for you to say when you're not crouched down ringside, 50m away from the subject and there are a bazillion horizons in that pic. I was able to frame it up level enough so I wouldn't have to do it in post, cause that would be illegal, and shot....and even then despite finishing 6th in that challenge, I still caught flak for not including the rear hooves. |
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07/24/2017 09:29:17 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by snaffles:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by snaffles:
... and then dared to do something very minor like tweak it by a couple of degrees in order to level the horizon ... |
Therein lies the challenge. Get the horizon level on initial capture. Minimal still forces forethought before you push the shutter. |
Yeah...easy for you to say when you're not crouched down ringside, 50m away from the subject and there are a bazillion horizons in that pic. I was able to frame it up level enough so I wouldn't have to do it in post, cause that would be illegal, and shot....and even then despite finishing 6th in that challenge, I still caught flak for not including the rear hooves. |
Tough life being a photographer! :-D |
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