Problems with Digital Photography: Color & Light

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

10/18/2004 12:23:43 PM · #1

I went out to take photos of the incoming rain clouds over the San Gabriel mountains, and all of my photos came out very drab. With my eye, I could see greens and browns (trees) and buildings and homes (all colors) and the clouds were puffy, grey & white, with rays of the sun shining through. It was so beautiful to look at, but my photos came out so boring and over or underexposed in areas. I could not get an even exposure (to match what i was seeing with my eyes), but I used to when I used my Canon Elan EOS iie 35mm camera. Is it me or my 20D? I tried all three types of metering, I was using manual settings (i tried bracketing, I tried open and closed and normal aperatures, I tried various speeds, I tried over and underexposing, I increased the color and saturation parameters, I tried different 'film' speeds too to see if i could do a longer exposure. Nothing worked... :( I will try to post a photo later, but i don't have them with me at work. I am just frustrated. Any ideas what I should try or what is causing this?

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

10/18/2004 12:30:58 PM · #2

It's a combination of problems...

First of all, your eye can see a much broader range of light input than your camera can. On the other hand, your eye can't see as broad and area as your camera can. When you look at something with your eyes, you are normally looking at a focus point in the scene rather than the entire scene. The camera is evaluating a larger area in a landscape photo than your eyes actually do.

The metering in your camera is probably the issue. It may require making multiple shots from a tripod and then mixing them in photoshop to get closer to what your eye sees. You may have to expose one photo for the sky and another for the land...

Message edited by author 2004-10-18 12:31:31.

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

10/18/2004 12:37:08 PM · #3

I believe the range that digital can handle is similar to what we had with slide film. Digital still cannot match the range of negative film.

One option for increasing range is to shoot RAW and then great two of more image layers with different exposure compensation. Then use a mask to blend the two layers into one image with increased range.

Message edited by author 2004-10-18 12:37:47.

bledford

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

10/18/2004 12:41:16 PM · #4

I have certainly become aware of the metering limitations of my camera, as I've often been plagued with shots that are both under and over-exposed (read: sky is blown out and landscape is too dark). Still, this is just a fact of shooting digital (at least for now) so I've learned to work around it. I know now, for instance, that a shot with a blown out sky will sometimes convert to B&W nicely. Also, I've learned to crop extreme differences in lighting before I ever snap the shot. This may mean keeping the sky out of the picture entirely. Lastly, sometimes I just give into the situation and properly expose the sky and let everything else become a silhouette.

10/18/2004 12:52:53 PM · #5

I'm not sure about the 300D or the 20D, but I have never been overly impressed by the metering of the 10D. I usually shoot with the post shot information set to include the histogram and I watch for blown out areas. Its easier to bring up the dark areas than it is to fix the areas that are blown out. In most cases I end up with my exposure compensation set to underexpose by 1/2 stop.

Originally posted by bledford:

doctornick

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

Nikon AF-S Zoom-Nikkor 28-70mm f/2.8D IF-ED

10/18/2004 12:59:25 PM · #6

Shoot RAW, Bracket your shots, Use a Graduated Neutral Density filter and you'll be fine.

Gringo

Nikon D2X

10/18/2004 12:59:35 PM · #7

Mirdonamy,
I hope you will post a couple shots showing the problem areas, along with the settings for the shots.

10/18/2004 01:52:52 PM · #8

All of your suggestions are great. I never use RAW because I don't really know what to do with it. I open everything in PS7 and it won't open RAW without converting it to TIFF so I am not sure I know what to do with a RAW file if i took one.

As for taking multiple shots and merging them into one...that's a possibility. I did use a tripod during this adventure. I don't own any ND filters, but i wish i did! I tried to play with curves in PS, but I kept getting a very washed look or just radical colors that didn't belong.

Sadly, I don't know about histograms or how to use/read them or alter them. I have so much to learn. Maybe I should start there. Is there a book on this somewhere? My manual is useless in teaching me about RAW and histograms.

Okay, I'll post some photos tonight.

doctornick

Apple iPhone 13 Pro

10/18/2004 01:58:21 PM · #9

Unfortunately PS7 will not support RAW files from the 20D. But the Canon Software is not bad for RAW conversions, it is included for free with your camera.

As for a Good Book about RAW, well Check This Out. It is for PS 8 though.

10/18/2004 03:15:59 PM · #10

I know the Canon software can convert RAW files, but to "Work with" RAW files, what's a good program to use that's free?

Sigma 18-125mm f/3.5-5.6 DC for Canon

10/18/2004 03:23:30 PM · #11

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

I know the Canon software can convert RAW files, but to "Work with" RAW files, what's a good program to use that's free?

I think you can convert the RAW to TIFF (loseless) with the Canon utility and then import the TIFF into Photoshop.

atsxus

Canon EOS-10D

10/18/2004 03:34:46 PM · #12

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

I know the Canon software can convert RAW files, but to "Work with" RAW files, what's a good program to use that's free?

Upgrade to Photoshop 8 (CS) That's what I use. Can't live without it.

Yes, I'm a photoshop addict, and my name is Stephanie

toad32

Nikon D300

10/18/2004 03:37:09 PM · #13

Doctornick nailed it with the graduated ND filter suggestion.

I am a recent digital convert having shot for years with film cameras of various descriptions. One of the things I noticed straight away was digitals sensetivity to light. It may just be me and my D70 but it seems I am always walking a fine line with blowing my highlights out when shooting landscapes especially.

Seems to me, and I have nothing to back this up with other than my impression, its seems that film was MUCH more forgiving to highlighted areas than digital. I cant begin to count the number of times I burned in a highlight in the dark room to bring out detail and soften highlights. With digital I guess the information is flat not recorded. and while you can burn highlighted areas...you have lost the detail that existed.

Graduated ND filters change all this. With a graduated ND in place, one that is adjustable (I use the Cokin P system) for where you place the gradient you can get some fantastic landscapes with properly exposed land and sky. I used to use filters with film regularly...but they were garnish...however in this case...I seem them as a necessary piece of gear.

For what its worth.

bledford

Canon EOS-300D Rebel

Canon EF-S 18-55mm f/3.5-5.6

10/18/2004 04:00:43 PM · #14

Originally posted by toad32:

Graduated ND filters change all this. With a graduated ND in place, one that is adjustable (I use the Cokin P system) for where you place the gradient you can get some fantastic landscapes with properly exposed land and sky. I used to use filters with film regularly...but they were garnish...however in this case...I seem them as a necessary piece of gear.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the use of a graduated filter require that the lens being used does not rotate when focused/zoomed? I've been considering one of these filters, but as I've only got the kit lens 18-55 to use for landscapes, I'm nervous of spending money on nice filter for a lens that rotates as you focus.

10/18/2004 04:32:06 PM · #15

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

Originally posted by mirdonamy:
I know the Canon software can convert RAW files, but to "Work with" RAW files, what's a good program to use that's free?

I think you can convert the RAW to TIFF (loseless) with the Canon utility and then import the TIFF into Photoshop.

Once you convert the file to TIFF and open it in PS, doesn't that take away the ability to mess with it (the way I hear RAW is meant to be messed with)?

10/18/2004 04:34:49 PM · #16

Originally posted by bledford:

Originally posted by toad32:
Graduated ND filters change all this. With a graduated ND in place, one that is adjustable (I use the Cokin P system) for where you place the gradient you can get some fantastic landscapes with properly exposed land and sky. I used to use filters with film regularly...but they were garnish...however in this case...I seem them as a necessary piece of gear.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but doesn't the use of a graduated filter require that the lens being used does not rotate when focused/zoomed? I've been considering one of these filters, but as I've only got the kit lens 18-55 to use for landscapes, I'm nervous of spending money on nice filter for a lens that rotates as you focus.

I don't think Cokin rotates since that kind of sits outside the lens in a way. however, i do also worry about the lens rotating with the filter on it. What is a good ND filter to get outside the Cokin system since I don't really want to start up with that right now. Also, how do we hand the lens rotation issue. Is it like a circular polarizer where you can rotate it as necessary after focus is achieved?

toad32

Nikon D300

10/18/2004 04:37:47 PM · #17

Originally posted by bledford:

I suppose it would with screw on type filter. However with something like a cokin P system...its a simple thing to focus...then to adjust the filter as needed...the holder can rotate independent of lens rotation. This comes in very handy for left to right, right to left and even top to bottom (say with highly reflective water) all these are only a twist away. I guess you could say I am a big fan on the cokin p system. =)

Canon EF 70-300mm f/4.5-5.6 DO IS USM

10/18/2004 04:41:14 PM · #18

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

Originally posted by Nusbaum:

Originally posted by mirdonamy:
I know the Canon software can convert RAW files, but to "Work with" RAW files, what's a good program to use that's free?

I think you can convert the RAW to TIFF (loseless) with the Canon utility and then import the TIFF into Photoshop.

Once you convert the file to TIFF and open it in PS, doesn't that take away the ability to mess with it (the way I hear RAW is meant to be messed with)?

You do your messing around before you push the button to convert. In this case you can adjust the exposure (some), the white balance, and some other parameters I cannot remember right now. After that you convert to TIFF and move to photoshop for further editing.

You can do this twice, with different exposure compensation for highlights and shadows, and then layer them into one photoshop image. Use a mask, as simple as a graduated neurtral density filter or burn in different area, to blend the two layers together.

toad32

Nikon D300

10/18/2004 04:43:03 PM · #19

Originally posted by mirdonamy:

What is a good ND filter to get outside the Cokin system since I don't really want to start up with that right now. Also, how do we hand the lens rotation issue. Is it like a circular polarizer where you can rotate it as necessary after focus is achieved?

Honestly...there may be a graduated (plenty of solid ND's from just about every manufacturer however) screw-on type filter out there...but I will be damned if I could find it. Sides...the cokin or something similar is the way to go. Buy one filter and holder (10bucks) then one ring for each lens (about 7 bucks ea) and you can use the same filters with each lens. Its far more economical than a different filter for each size...or having to use step up/down rings.

But hey...thats just my take.

cpanaioti

Canon EOS-40D

10/18/2004 06:52:44 PM · #20

Originally posted by toad32:

Originally posted by mirdonamy:
What is a good ND filter to get outside the Cokin system since I don't really want to start up with that right now. Also, how do we hand the lens rotation issue. Is it like a circular polarizer where you can rotate it as necessary after focus is achieved?

Honestly...there may be a graduated (plenty of solid ND's from just about every manufacturer however) screw-on type filter out there...but I will be damned if I could find it. Sides...the cokin or something similar is the way to go. Buy one filter and holder (10bucks) then one ring for each lens (about 7 bucks ea) and you can use the same filters with each lens. Its far more economical than a different filter for each size...or having to use step up/down rings.

But hey...thats just my take.

I agree and the cokin system for graduated filters is much more flexible since you can place the gradation line where it's needed. With screw in filters the gradation line is always through the middle.

AndrewTO

Canon EOS-20D

Canon EF-S 17-85mm f/4-5.6 IS USM

10/18/2004 10:56:26 PM · #21

Will the Cokin system work with Olympus E20N ? What do I need to get ? A filter, a holder and a ring for each of my lenses ? Correct ?

ADGibson

Canon EOS-20D

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Canon

10/18/2004 11:17:59 PM · #22

I wasn't aware of a problem with rotating ND filters. I know polarized lens have to be rotated correctly but that is their purpose.