Good vs overly process-oriented photography.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Nikon

02/11/2003 10:23:29 AM · #1

I wonder if maybe some of you spend so much time on setting up the "perfect" shot that the picture you end up with sucks, but you spent so much time on it that you forget the point of photography. And the voters are far too impressed with effort and time spent on it that they vote for the process, not the end result.

I'm no photography expert. I don't like many of the pictures I take. But nothing most of you do is art, if that's even applicable to this site. It's staged, it's tacky, it's boring. It has no emotion. You can take fifty thousand shots of your freaking kid drooling and then zoom in on the drool, while it's backlit off a piece of foil placed at the perfect angle so as to also catch the Sun's early dawn rays and light that ugly child's face just perfectly! Guess what? It's still not good. And the problem, really, is that so many people spend so much time saying "WOW YOU GOT THOSE PIECES OF ORANGE INTO PERFECT SQUARES GOOD JOB WORKING WITH THE CHALLENGE 10!!!!!!!!!!!!!!" that they forget the one thing you were unable to realize: the picture sucks! It's boring! It's bland! It's crap!

Perhaps a select few of us come from a world where it's about the product, not the process. It's about the end result, not the time you took to make sure it happened. It's about what you really took a picture of, not the dozens of filters you applied to it so it would a) fit the challenge, and b) invoke a "wow!!!" reaction that will briefly allow the voters to ignore the fact that you just took another crappy photo. By the time they realize they've been fooled -- if they do at all, which I doubt -- they've moved on to the next picture.

Long live spontaneity. Long live capturing emotion, feeling, the world that you actually live in.

I don't doubt that if you people could add a billion filters to your lives and world to make your boring factory-like process of photography easier, you would.

You want to see a good photograph? Look at //www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=185 or look at //www.dpchallenge.com/image.php?IMAGE_ID=6291 . Quality. There's no wasted time on setting up a freaking pan of water with a chessboard background so your water droplets will have a stupid little grid within them.

I read a thread with someone bitching about their kid and their cat being voted so low. Well, your picture sucked. Deal with it. The pictures I've entered into challenges here? They sucked. I know it. I also know I have no chance even if i do submit something worthwhile. Why? Because DPChallenge has **nothing** to do with photography skill and **everything** to do with amazing your voters.

I think it's unfortunate that DPChallenge has evolved more into a Photoshop filter orgy than what it used to be: a place where people took pictures and uploaded them. Maybe messed with the auto levels if they were so inclined. Where people voted on the picture.

That's the end of my rant. Feel free to tell me why I'm wrong.

Message edited by author 2003-02-11 10:31:36.

FranziskaLang

Nikon D100

02/11/2003 10:27:23 AM · #2

this thread really should be moved to the rant section. you said so yourself ...

02/11/2003 10:29:16 AM · #3

Originally posted by franziska lang:

this thread really should be moved to the rant section. you said so yourself ...

It's a rant but it's about photography. It seems applicable given this forum is "PHOTOGRAPHY DISCUSSION".

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

02/11/2003 10:32:34 AM · #4

Originally posted by leshii:

I think it's unfortunate that DPChallenge has evolved more into a Photoshop filter orgy than what it used to be,: a place where people took pictures and uploaded them.

Okay, a couple of things,

1) Photoshop filters are not allowed, so I dunno what you're talking about here.

2) It was never a place where people took photos and uploaded them. Thats what places like pbase are for. DPC has always been a competition, and creating a "wow" is the best way to get high votes and win.

welcher

Canon EOS-5D

02/11/2003 10:36:48 AM · #5

I think leshii was around "back in the day" when Drew and company first started this site as a place for their crew to upload photos and check out each other's work. And he's right, DP Challenge is nothing like that place anymore.

However, I disagree with the notion that a lot of the photos here "suck". Quite a few are staged. Quite a few are more technically good that emotionally engaging. And possibly technicaly excellence is valued over emotional punch, though I could easily argue against that.

All it takes is a single look at this week's "Before and After" winner to see a strong counter-point to leshii's premise. Second place in "Cliche", too. (Not saying first place wasn't fantastic, but that seems to be the type of photo leshii is railing against.)

02/11/2003 10:37:04 AM · #6

Originally posted by Konador:

[quote=leshii]

Okay, a couple of things,

1) Photoshop filters are not allowed, so I dunno what you're talking about here.

2) It was never a place where people took photos and uploaded them. Thats what places like pbase are for. DPC has always been a competition, and creating a "wow" is the best way to get high votes and win.

1. Right. Look at the pictures. I don't care what the rules say (they allow Gaussian blur... why?) it's done and done a lot.

2. "... Where people voted on the picture." I'm not saying this place was a site to house all pictures. I'm saying, people used to upload photography.

Tamron SP AF 28-75mm f/2.8 XR Di for Nikon

02/11/2003 10:37:59 AM · #7

What do they upload now then? Bananas?

FranziskaLang

Nikon D100

02/11/2003 10:38:46 AM · #8

that would be right on target for the yellow challenge :)

Originally posted by Konador:

What do they upload now then? Bananas?

02/11/2003 10:39:55 AM · #9

Originally posted by Konador:

What do they upload now then? Bananas?

Process-oriented, masturbatory crap.

02/11/2003 10:40:34 AM · #10

Example please?

crabappl3

02/11/2003 10:41:20 AM · #11

Most of my photo's that aren't staged are not uploaded here. This is a competition site, so only shots that meet the challenge go here. I believe that by having weekly studies I have expanded my skills to go further then the family party snapshots.

I think that you directed your comments a little harsh. Does the Acadamy Award for Best Picture go to the movie you thought was the most realistic and true to your view on the world, or does it go to the one that had the biggest impact (WOW factor) on the voters?

We are all here to better our skills... I for one have!

lisae

Olympus C-720UZ

02/11/2003 10:43:48 AM · #12

leshii, there are a lot of different ideas of what is "photography" and what isn't. Yours is just one. The process of DPC is about taking a VERY wide ranging set of opinions on photography and averaging them. Whether that's a good or meaningful thing to do or not is up to each one of us to decide for ourselves.

02/11/2003 10:44:54 AM · #13

Originally posted by Konador:

Example please?

//www.dpchallenge.com/challenge_results.php?CHALLENGE_ID=44

The first two are pefect examples of what I'm talking about. I could show more, but you can use your head.

Canon EF 24-70mm f/2.8L USM

02/11/2003 10:46:08 AM · #14

I really don't see how these are processed! They look like photos to me, very good ones too!

//www.dpchallenge.com/how.php?HOW_ID=26 explains how the blueberry splash one was done, and as you can see, the image is practically straight out of the camera.

//www.dpchallenge.com/how.php?HOW_ID=20 explains two tone tonic. Again, there is very very little processing at all.

Message edited by author 2003-02-11 10:48:14.

kiwiness

Canon Canon 1d x Mark II

02/11/2003 10:47:54 AM · #15

Those two photos can go up on my living room wall anyday!

jmsetzler

Sony Alpha a6000

Sony 16-50mm f/3.5-5.6 E-mount

02/11/2003 10:48:26 AM · #16

i think it's unfair to say that 'overly process-oriented' photography is not 'good' photography. It may not be YOUR opinion of good photography, which is perfectly acceptable :)

welcher

Canon EOS-5D

Canon EF 70-200mm f/4.0L USM

02/11/2003 10:49:22 AM · #17

leshii, quick question. Are you genuinely interested in talking about the type of photos that get attention here, or do you just want to insult people and call names?

I think this is a very interesting topic since, like you, I much prefer "unstaged" shots to staged ones. (Perhaps because I suck at staged shots!) But your constant insults make it impossible to treat the thread with any kind of respect or intelligence.

Are there any challenges where you agreed with the top 3 winners?

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

02/11/2003 10:49:36 AM · #18

Originally posted by leshii:

1/ Its not, but don't let reality get in your way.

2/ People still do - it might not be your taste, but it is still photography. You'll find other threads with people complaining that they worked really hard and nobody recognised the hard work they put in ,even though they produced a crap picture. Seems the opposite of your complaint. The high votes go to the pictures that make an impression - it might be set up that impresses, it might be the content that impresses, it might be the angle or light that impresses, but it is a contest so the pictures with impact win.

joshua

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

02/11/2003 10:49:37 AM · #19

Originally posted by leshii:

Originally posted by Konador:
Example please?

//www.dpchallenge.com/challenge_results.php?CHALLENGE_ID=44

The first two are pefect examples of what I'm talking about. I could show more, but you can use your head.

you sound bitter

Canon EF-S 18-135mm f/3.5-5.6 IS

02/11/2003 10:51:55 AM · #20

Originally posted by Gordon:

Eh? Quoted from the rules: "However, no effects filters may be applied to your image, with the exception of Noise and Gaussian blur, the two of which are allowed. Any filter permitted by this rule must be applied uniformly to the entire image. Selective application of the filter is prohibited."

KarenB

Canon EOS-70D

02/11/2003 10:53:24 AM · #21

I agree with franziska lang. This is more of a rant.
I feel there is no need to be argumentative.
This thread began very aggressively, and I see no point in persuing it in this manner.

02/11/2003 10:53:36 AM · #22

Originally posted by achiral:

you sound bitter

Right.

Davenit

Canon EOS-1D

02/11/2003 10:54:46 AM · #23

It is about "WOW" factor. I have mentioned this many times in my posts here. WOW factor is what people looked for. You don't think Ansel's images have WOW??? Wolfe, Shaw, Barker, Oneill, all have wow. Any image that has won this comp has wow. Anything that has won anything period has wow. The Images Leshii showed (at least the mountian) had wow. All wow shots have some form of work done to them. Ansel spent 10x more time in the dark room than in the field as do all the well known photographers. Heck Fitzharris spends probabably 20 hours infront of a computer for every 1 he spends in the field.

Darkrooms (digital or analog) are as necessary and important as the glass the image is shot through. Either learn to use it or your images will suffer... What you are so pissed off at is beyond me. Don't like processed images??? Then you won't like 98% of the images out there. Dave

Message edited by author 2003-02-11 10:55:19.

Gordon

RIM BlackBerry Curve

Canon EF 85mm f/1.8 USM

02/11/2003 10:55:40 AM · #24

Originally posted by leshii:

Eh? Quoted from the rules: "However, no effects filters may be applied to your image, "

Hi marks for reading skills, but you wrote this earlier

Originally posted by leshii:

I think it's unfortunate that DPChallenge has evolved more into a Photoshop filter orgy

You seem confused. It's fine if you don't happen to like studio type photographs, but it doesn't mean you have a popular or even typical view of what makes a good photograph. The thing is, if you look at the recent results, roughly half are set up shots, and the other half are well taken, composed shots of things people found. pretty much half and half. room for all kinds of photography to do well

Message edited by author 2003-02-11 10:57:25.