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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Suggestions >> Sunny 16 rule
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09/30/2016 12:52:30 PM · #1
Shoot an image at f/16 with the "Sunny 16 rule" in mind
Advanced with special flag that it has to be taken at f/16

more info here

https://www.photographytalk.com/photography-articles/3271-9-things-you-need-to-know-about-the-f16-rule
09/30/2016 01:31:15 PM · #2
You realize that not all cameras have an f/16 setting, even if they can shoot in Aperture-Priority mode ...
09/30/2016 01:32:36 PM · #3
You also realize that the rule only applies to jpg...
09/30/2016 03:24:16 PM · #4
you also realize this isn't really a rule, its just a guideline for when you don't have the ability to meter the scene...

09/30/2016 06:13:36 PM · #5
The f16 rule seems to be presented as part of an equation that applies to other apertures too. The sample photos are not shot at f16.
09/30/2016 07:03:48 PM · #6
I did not understand what equation they used with the flower image. Were they taking the difference in stops of lights between f16 and f2.8 to adjust shutter speed?
10/01/2016 02:35:33 AM · #7
I'd never heard of this rule before.
10/01/2016 07:45:19 AM · #8
Originally posted by Jules1x:

I did not understand what equation they used with the flower image. Were they taking the difference in stops of lights between f16 and f2.8 to adjust shutter speed?

That's correct. In the old film days we'd use "sunny 16" to ballpark an exposure: f/16 at the reciprocal of the ISO was a good mid-day exposure guideline. So with an ISO of 200, you'd be shooting f/16 at 1/200 using this "rule". That's the same as f/11 at 1/400, f/8 at 1/800, f/5.6 at 1/1600, and so forth and so on.

Message edited by author 2016-10-01 10:19:39.
10/01/2016 09:43:11 AM · #9
Ah ha. Now i have it. Thanks Bear!
10/01/2016 10:50:04 AM · #10
I like the idea of this challenge though it wouldn't be fair if all can't participate.
But heck, I'll bet many here won't participate in Married with no Faces due to lack of a credible idea. Is that just as much of a disadvantage?
Of the two topics, I'm pretty sure this one would get more entries.
10/01/2016 12:03:31 PM · #11
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by Jules1x:

I did not understand what equation they used with the flower image. Were they taking the difference in stops of lights between f16 and f2.8 to adjust shutter speed?

That's correct. In the old film days we'd use "sunny 16" to ballpark an exposure: f/16 at the reciprocal of the ISO was a good mid-day exposure guideline. So with an ISO of 200, you'd be shooting f/16 at 1/200 using this "rule". That's the same as f/11 at 1/400, f/8 at 1/800, f/5.6 at 1/1600, and so forth and so on.

We use this in the "new" film days too. I use it all the time. Doesn't sound challenge-worthy to me though.
10/01/2016 12:04:29 PM · #12
To make this interesting, limit the choices to what was there in the days of film. ASA400 was the fastest film I could find, back then. I could 'push' the film, but I had to remember to ask the lab to 'push' the developing. And I couldn't change the ASA from one shot to the next, because the whole roll of film was developed at once. And f2.8, f5.6, f8, f11 was it.

But I'm just being humorous. This challenge would ask us to use the camera in full manual mode, if it has one. Set it at f16, ISO200, 1/200, focus at infinity & go outside at midday on a sunny clear day & shoot until we get something interesting. If your camera will only let you choose aperture priority, then set it to f16 & go out at midday on a sunny clear day & find a shot where your camera picks the other settings. No phone cameras allowed.
10/01/2016 12:27:30 PM · #13
Originally posted by pixelpig:

But I'm just being humorous. This challenge would ask us to use the camera in full manual mode, if it has one. Set it at f16, ISO200, 1/200, focus at infinity & go outside at midday on a sunny clear day & shoot until we get something interesting. If your camera will only let you choose aperture priority, then set it to f16 & go out at midday on a sunny clear day & find a shot where your camera picks the other settings. No phone cameras allowed.

I mostly agree, though I think in A-priority mode you set the ISO as well with only shutter-speed being set by the camera, and your description still doesn't address cameras which don't have an f/16 setting (mine only goes to f/8).

Not sure how focal plane (or lens length) gets into the picture (sic) though ...
10/01/2016 01:58:06 PM · #14
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by pixelpig:

But I'm just being humorous. This challenge would ask us to use the camera in full manual mode, if it has one. Set it at f16, ISO200, 1/200, focus at infinity & go outside at midday on a sunny clear day & shoot until we get something interesting. If your camera will only let you choose aperture priority, then set it to f16 & go out at midday on a sunny clear day & find a shot where your camera picks the other settings. No phone cameras allowed.

I mostly agree, though I think in A-priority mode you set the ISO as well with only shutter-speed being set by the camera, and your description still doesn't address cameras which don't have an f/16 setting (mine only goes to f/8).

Not sure how focal plane (or lens length) gets into the picture (sic) though ...


As the aperture goes down (less light) ISO goes up (more sensitivity). At midday on a bright clear day, there isn't much opportunity for working with DOF. My film camera had a fixed lens. I never gave DOF as an artistic consideration a second thought until I went digital.
10/01/2016 03:25:00 PM · #15
Then make the challenge f8 at 1/800? I didn't know about this rule, but was experimenting the other day with using f-stop to shoot during the middle of the day. I like the idea (better at f16, but either way).
10/01/2016 03:33:21 PM · #16
Originally posted by pixelpig:

As the aperture goes down (less light) ISO goes up (more sensitivity). At midday on a bright clear day, there isn't much opportunity for working with DOF.

If you're talking about Aperture Priority modes on digital cameras, then the exposure time increases as the light diminishes. At least it does on MY camera anyway. Some of them, including mine, have an auto-ISO setting that allows the camera to do what you describe, but that's not a best-practice behavior for image quality. I prefer to control my own ISO.
10/01/2016 05:02:51 PM · #17
Are we assuming that everyone is going to get a bright, sunny day at midday? (You would think it wouldn't be a problem for me in Australia, but we are having a record breaking wet spell and in the last two weeks the best I've had is a few days with sunny spells.)
10/01/2016 05:13:32 PM · #18
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by pixelpig:

As the aperture goes down (less light) ISO goes up (more sensitivity). At midday on a bright clear day, there isn't much opportunity for working with DOF.

If you're talking about Aperture Priority modes on digital cameras, then the exposure time increases as the light diminishes. At least it does on MY camera anyway. Some of them, including mine, have an auto-ISO setting that allows the camera to do what you describe, but that's not a best-practice behavior for image quality. I prefer to control my own ISO.


In the article, the f16 or Sunny 16 Rule states that, on a bright sunny day at noon with your aperture set to f16, the reciprocal of the ISO setting is the correct shutter speed.

For the example of the sunlit flower with a dark shade BG, there is nothing to explain how the Sunny 16 rule got (f2.8, ISO 200, 1/6400). Is there maybe another article somewhere for a subject lit by direct sun at midday, ISO 200, the relationship between aperture & shutter speed? GeneralE could find the setting for f8. If we use this for a challenge, maybe a table of settings would be useful. Or, according to the article, GeneralE could just wait for an overcast day. And Jomari could switch to f8 also. It says f8, ISO200, 1/200 only works on overcast days (I assume at midday).

Message edited by author 2016-10-01 17:29:05.
10/01/2016 05:41:07 PM · #19
Originally posted by jomari:

Are we assuming that everyone is going to get a bright, sunny day at midday? (You would think it wouldn't be a problem for me in Australia, but we are having a record breaking wet spell and in the last two weeks the best I've had is a few days with sunny spells.)


The "sunny" in "Sunny 16" is just a baseline. It involves some knowledge of EV or exposure value. A typical sunny day has an EV of 15 (assuming ISO 100). A bright overcast day is 13, or two stops less. So if you would meter the sunny day at f/16 and 1/100, you would meter the bright overcast day at f/8 at 1/100, or f/11 at 1/50, or f/16 at 1/25. Of course not all overcast days are the same, but you learn to read the light.

There's an extensive table of EV values for different lighting conditions here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_value
10/01/2016 06:24:11 PM · #20
Originally posted by bvy:

Originally posted by jomari:

Are we assuming that everyone is going to get a bright, sunny day at midday? (You would think it wouldn't be a problem for me in Australia, but we are having a record breaking wet spell and in the last two weeks the best I've had is a few days with sunny spells.)


The "sunny" in "Sunny 16" is just a baseline. It involves some knowledge of EV or exposure value. A typical sunny day has an EV of 15 (assuming ISO 100). A bright overcast day is 13, or two stops less. So if you would meter the sunny day at f/16 and 1/100, you would meter the bright overcast day at f/8 at 1/100, or f/11 at 1/50, or f/16 at 1/25. Of course not all overcast days are the same, but you learn to read the light.

There's an extensive table of EV values for different lighting conditions here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_value


Thank you Brian. That is helpful.

It might be better to have a challenge based on the formula rather than limited to f16.
10/01/2016 06:42:22 PM · #21
Originally posted by jomari:

Originally posted by bvy:

Originally posted by jomari:

Are we assuming that everyone is going to get a bright, sunny day at midday? (You would think it wouldn't be a problem for me in Australia, but we are having a record breaking wet spell and in the last two weeks the best I've had is a few days with sunny spells.)


The "sunny" in "Sunny 16" is just a baseline. It involves some knowledge of EV or exposure value. A typical sunny day has an EV of 15 (assuming ISO 100). A bright overcast day is 13, or two stops less. So if you would meter the sunny day at f/16 and 1/100, you would meter the bright overcast day at f/8 at 1/100, or f/11 at 1/50, or f/16 at 1/25. Of course not all overcast days are the same, but you learn to read the light.

There's an extensive table of EV values for different lighting conditions here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_value


Thank you Brian. That is helpful.

It might be better to have a challenge based on the formula rather than limited to f16.

I agree. In fact, I had to look back at what was originally suggested. It's not instructive at all if one can't adjust for the available light.
10/01/2016 07:17:54 PM · #22
Originally posted by bvy:

There's an extensive table of EV values for different lighting conditions here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exposure_value


Thanks, I loved reading that information. Suddenly I remembered the folded-up paper that came with a roll of film, it had similar tables of settings.
10/02/2016 01:44:33 PM · #23
Originally posted by jomari:

It might be better to have a challenge based on the formula rather than limited to f16.


That would work. Not following the formula would be a DQ?
10/02/2016 03:53:42 PM · #24
I don't see this one happening. It's interesting information and all, but it's not really a viable challenge topic IMO.
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