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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Suggestions >> Can we have a lot more minimal editing challenges?
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09/21/2016 06:32:11 PM · #1
I miss the olden days when almost every open challenge was basic editing. It forced me to be a lot more creative with the way I manipulate images, and the way I plan a shoot.

I realise the new minimal editing is a much more drastic ruleset. But now that there are twice as many challenges running at a time as there used to be, I think it would be good to see at least one minimal editing challenge open for submission on the board at any given time. I think they're far more interesting than the extended editing contests, and have the potential to give some of our jaded regulars something to do that's a bit more - well - challenging!
09/21/2016 06:42:57 PM · #2
Originally posted by riot:

I miss the olden days when almost every open challenge was basic editing. It forced me to be a lot more creative with the way I manipulate images, and the way I plan a shoot.

I realise the new minimal editing is a much more drastic ruleset. But now that there are twice as many challenges running at a time as there used to be, I think it would be good to see at least one minimal editing challenge open for submission on the board at any given time.

One thing which might help would be to suggest some challenge topics which would be suitable for Minimal editing ... virtually all of the challenges are taken directly from the user suggestions in that section -- just start (or revive) a thread for each topic ... the generic format is:
 Title

Description (if any)
Suggested editing rule set
09/21/2016 07:51:12 PM · #3
yes, we should suggest challenges with minimal editing; but it might be more equitable to have a policy...
09/21/2016 08:01:48 PM · #4
Originally posted by tnun:

yes, we should suggest challenges with minimal editing; but it might be more equitable to have a policy...

Having a "policy" is ineffective without a pool of available topics from which to schedule. If all the suggested challenges specify/require Standard or Extended editing how are we supposed to schedule Minimal challenges. Right now I expect that the challenges are scheduled roughly in proportion to the suggested rule sets ...
09/21/2016 09:05:01 PM · #5
Originally posted by riot:

I miss the olden days when almost every open challenge was basic editing. It forced me to be a lot more creative with the way I manipulate images, and the way I plan a shoot.

I realise the new minimal editing is a much more drastic ruleset. But now that there are twice as many challenges running at a time as there used to be, I think it would be good to see at least one minimal editing challenge open for submission on the board at any given time. I think they're far more interesting than the extended editing contests, and have the potential to give some of our jaded regulars something to do that's a bit more - well - challenging!

OMG! I actually agree with you on something. :-D Yes, please - I'd like to see some Minimal Ruleset challenges as well. <Yeah Paul, I know ... make suggestions. Got it.>
09/22/2016 09:18:53 AM · #6
Originally posted by GeneralE:

One thing which might help would be to suggest some challenge topics which would be suitable for Minimal editing


Well, my point is really that IMO almost any topic is suitable for minimal editing. You could take any one of the standard editing contests open for submission right now, including the free study, and make it a minimal editing contest and it would still be a perfectly interesting topic.

Rather than picking contest subjects "for" minimal editing, just proceed with suggestions as normal, but every now and then select one to be minimal. They'll all work well.
09/22/2016 12:37:23 PM · #7
I still don't understand why we have an expert free study and not a minimal, both would we good but having one without the other isnt really fair on those who are more minimal in their approach to photography.
09/22/2016 12:48:49 PM · #8
Originally posted by jagar:

I still don't understand why we have an expert free study and not a minimal, both would we good but having one without the other isnt really fair on those who are more minimal in their approach to photography.

Do you want one monthly, or occasionally substituting Minimal for one of the others?
09/22/2016 01:05:27 PM · #9
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by jagar:

I still don't understand why we have an expert free study and not a minimal, both would we good but having one without the other isnt really fair on those who are more minimal in their approach to photography.

Do you want one monthly, or occasionally substituting Minimal for one of the others?


Not sure having both the same month would work, might be too much, yet again it might, what does SC think ?
09/22/2016 01:24:46 PM · #10
Originally posted by jagar:

... what does SC think ?

I can only speak for myself ... personally I think there are already too many challenges open at once, and I'd prefer having just one monthly FS, alternating between the rule sets with Standard predominating (S E S M and repeat three times).

The "fairest" alternative would be to have three monthly Free Studies, one for each rule set (e.g. due 1st, 11th, 21st), but as the current schedule works that means we'd always have nine challenges open for submission.

I think scheduling of both Free Studies has been automated, so I don't know how hard it is to convert an Extended one to Minimal.
09/22/2016 01:42:18 PM · #11
please, don't touch on the monthly Extended free studies. This is so much fun to experiment/explore with new things after the shot was taken.
09/22/2016 02:34:37 PM · #12
Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:

please, don't touch on the monthly Extended free studies. This is so much fun to experiment/explore with new things after the shot was taken.


No worries about that :)

Regarding the number of open entries, I'm also of the opinion that there are too many, and the page looks a bit overwhelming, although the 2-week submission period seems to be working very well. I don't think adding yet another FS is the answer, although we certainly can and should include the minimal ruleset on a more regular basis in the regular challenge roster.
09/22/2016 02:49:53 PM · #13
Originally posted by tanguera:

Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:

please, don't touch on the monthly Extended free studies. This is so much fun to experiment/explore with new things after the shot was taken.

No worries about that :)

Regarding the number of open entries, I'm also of the opinion that there are too many, and the page looks a bit overwhelming, although the 2-week submission period seems to be working very well. I don't think adding yet another FS is the answer, although we certainly can and should include the minimal ruleset on a more regular basis in the regular challenge roster.

Well, I certainly wouldn't want the "regular" standard monthly Free Study to go away. It's about the only constant that's remained around here. Alternate the Extended and Minimal and keep the Standard.

Please. :-)
09/22/2016 02:53:32 PM · #14
I think the number of Minimal challenges went down because it seemed like interest in them was not high. I am not a big fan of Minimal challenges, but if people want more of them then we should certainly try to schedule more.

Personally, I really like having the additional open challenges because I feel like it give me more options when I find time to go out and shoot. I also like the two week submission period because it gives me a little extra time to work on the challenge themes I find most interesting.
09/22/2016 03:00:16 PM · #15
Note that there's nothing preventing one of the regular weekly challenges being a Free Study with Minimal editing ...
09/22/2016 03:19:52 PM · #16
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Note that there's nothing preventing one of the regular weekly challenges being a Free Study with Minimal editing ...


well that's an idea.
09/22/2016 03:29:44 PM · #17
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Note that there's nothing preventing one of the regular weekly challenges being a Free Study with Minimal editing ...


I like ths idea a lot. I think the nature of the Minimal editing ruleset lends itself very much to a weekly Free Study. It's not something that one might want to spend a whole month thinking about and a Free Study is perfect for happy accidents. Just lock your camera down into its simplest jpeg settings and throw it about for a week and see what comes up.
09/22/2016 09:04:19 PM · #18
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Note that there's nothing preventing one of the regular weekly challenges being a Free Study with Minimal editing ...

I am very much against it. I never enter Minimal challenges as to me they are pointless. Taking away one weekly challenge and replacing it with Minimal FS would be another nail in the DPC coffin.

How about having a democratic vote on this? How many DPCers really want weekly Minimal challenges whether topical or FS? This would tell us how big is really the group of the supporters of Minimal.
09/22/2016 09:35:56 PM · #19
Originally posted by marnet:


How about having a democratic vote on this? How many DPCers really want weekly Minimal challenges whether topical or FS? This would tell us how big is really the group of the supporters of Minimal.

Survey (new Poll) says? :-)

Dang! There's been a lot of Polls over the years.
09/22/2016 09:37:33 PM · #20
Originally posted by rooum:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Note that there's nothing preventing one of the regular weekly challenges being a Free Study with Minimal editing ...


I like ths idea a lot. I think the nature of the Minimal editing ruleset lends itself very much to a weekly Free Study. It's not something that one might want to spend a whole month thinking about and a Free Study is perfect for happy accidents. Just lock your camera down into its simplest jpeg settings and throw it about for a week and see what comes up.


+100 love
09/22/2016 10:03:44 PM · #21
Originally posted by marnet:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Note that there's nothing preventing one of the regular weekly challenges being a Free Study with Minimal editing ...

I am very much against it. I never enter Minimal challenges as to me they are pointless. Taking away one weekly challenge and replacing it with Minimal FS would be another nail in the DPC coffin.

I think you (and others?) misunderstand -- I just mean that one day, instead of the challenge posted being "Fruit" or "Yellow" or some other specific topic, it could be "Minimal Free Study" ... NOT to have one every week!
09/22/2016 10:45:56 PM · #22
It's been said before, but here I am saying Every challenge is open to Minimal Editing comps. Every single one. There is nothing at all holding back the Minimal Editing photogs.
09/22/2016 11:09:46 PM · #23
Originally posted by GeneralE:


I think you (and others?) misunderstand -- I just mean that one day, instead of the challenge posted being "Fruit" or "Yellow" or some other specific topic, it could be "Minimal Free Study" ... NOT to have one every week!


*gasp!*

Yellow is NOT a "specific topic". It very general and open to many types of images.

In fact... (and this is why I gasped!)... Yellow was my very FIRST topic that I entered here... after lurking for a long while.

I'm trying to hold on to my dignity and not cry in despair.

Yellow is an "open" topic. Not at all "specific".

I'm not going to demand an apology to Yellow from you, Gen, but... I think she deserves one.

Hmmmrrph!

*mumbles* yellow... specific... seems "General"ly like an aberration to me... Hmmrrph! *grin*

[PLEASE take this in the silly manner than I'm delivering it. I DO hate it that I have to add this addendum... *sigh* The site is so weird these days... *sigh again*]

09/22/2016 11:40:46 PM · #24
Originally posted by markwiley:

I think the number of Minimal challenges went down because it seemed like interest in them was not high. I am not a big fan of Minimal challenges, but if people want more of them then we should certainly try to schedule more.


Not wanting to pick an argument, but the facts do not actually support that statement. I've done the stats on the minimal/expert (prior to extended) several times and in fact, minimal challenges have typically greater participation than the expert/extended challenges.

Between 2007 and end of 2014, the average number of participants in the very limited number (35) of minimal challenges was 92 per challenge. For the same period, the expert editing challenges (96 challenges) were averaging 62 per challenge. I haven't had time to redo the numbers for 2015 onwards, but I did do it for 2016. In 2016 there have been 5 minimal editing challenges with an average participation of 52 per challenge and there have been 18 extended challenges with an average participation of 48 per challenge. If you exclude the extended free studies to ensure we are comparing like with like, since there isn't a specific minimal free challenge, then the average number of entries per extended challenge is 40 and there have been 10 challenges held (compared to 5 in minimal).

So even when the overall participation is decreasing, the minimal challenges are still getting more participants than the extended.
09/22/2016 11:56:25 PM · #25
bravo.
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