If you don't vote, you don't count.

06/02/2016 07:34:32 AM · #101

Originally posted by Mike:

shouldn't all site members be allowed to participate in the poll, not just paying members? i think the results will likely be biased.

maybe you ought to also take the pulse of what it would take for those who let their membership lapse than those who still fully participate and are happy enough with the status quo.

This is a good idea, particularly the second part.

Canon RF 100-500mm F4.5-7.1 L IS USM

06/02/2016 07:40:00 AM · #102

Originally posted by tanguera:

Originally posted by pixelpig:
Sharing images before entering/voting should be banned, as it gives an unfair advantage to people who have friends among the members, getting all that voter feedback in advance, thus allowing a favored few to vote (in a way) before voting begins for everyone else.

As others have pointed out, this is an immensely helpful aspect of DPC, and one I fully endorse. It encourages camaraderie, sharing of knowledge, paying it forwards, etc. If anything, it could be an incentive to become more involved in the site. If a new member needs feedback and doesn't know anyone, they can easily start a thread requesting help. You know that those threads get a tremendous response. From there arise "friendships". And it all goes back to what I was saying: we get out of DPC what we put into it.

As far as I know, most people (myself included) do not vote on an image with which they've helped or are able to be objective enough to score fairly. Just because we've helped with an image doesn't automatically make it a "great" image, and we should be able to score accordingly.

ETA - I'm with the General on this, more carrots, less sticks. I feel we have more than enough rules as it is.

Why don't we take away anonymity, like during the "I am the walrus" challenge from about a year ago. Besides people working together before a challenge, I see stuff all over Facebook and other places. Maybe try one challenge like that to see what happens.

JakeKurdsjuk

Canon EOS R5

06/02/2016 07:56:01 AM · #103

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by JakeKurdsjuk:
My issue with non-member voting is potential for abuse. Perhaps non-members with a certain level of "regular" participation in challenges, but not those with no submissions.

I think as long as people comply with the TOS and the applicable rules (editing/voting/forums) they should be free to enter, vote, or post/comment, or any combination thereof.

My point is that I believe we're good "as is" with the non-member voting situation. They can enter and vote on Open challenges, but not on member only stuff. It is only in the latter case where I would suggest that if we were to open it up to everyone voting then it should carry some participation requirement.

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

06/02/2016 08:50:27 AM · #104

Originally posted by Mike:

shouldn't all site members be allowed to participate in the poll, not just paying members? i think the results will likely be biased.

The poll is very limited, intentionally; it's asking current, paying members what they want. Nothing more than that.

Originally posted by Mike:

maybe you ought to also take the pulse of what it would take for those who let their membership lapse.

That would be terrific but there's no mechanism in place to do that. We can differentiate as "SC", "Paid members", and "Registered and Paid Members". We'd encourage those who are former blue-shirts to let us know via ticket how they feel.

PennyStreet

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 17mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko

06/02/2016 10:01:38 AM · #105

Originally posted by Paul:

Originally posted by posthumous:
I don't like Jake's idea. For some people, it's a matter of principle not to vote in the same challenge they enter. I don't want to remove the most addictive aspect of the site to punish someone's principles. Anyone should be able to abstain from voting if they don't think they can be objective.

I don't believe that's a tenable argument. 'Anyone should be able to abstain' includes the principle that 'everyone could abstain' - where would that leave us? We can't operate a peer review site without peer review.

Thanks Paul. I have been trying to put this on paper but couldn't find the words.
I do believe in principle, but IMO it doesn't hold water here.

vawendy

Sony Alpha 1

Sony FE 200-600mm f/5.6-6.3 G OSS

06/02/2016 12:40:22 PM · #106

Originally posted by PennyStreet:

Originally posted by Paul:

Originally posted by posthumous:
I don't like Jake's idea. For some people, it's a matter of principle not to vote in the same challenge they enter. I don't want to remove the most addictive aspect of the site to punish someone's principles. Anyone should be able to abstain from voting if they don't think they can be objective.

I don't believe that's a tenable argument. 'Anyone should be able to abstain' includes the principle that 'everyone could abstain' - where would that leave us? We can't operate a peer review site without peer review.

Thanks Paul. I have been trying to put this on paper but couldn't find the words.
I do believe in principle, but IMO it doesn't hold water here.

I love voting on challenges in which I have entered. I've said it before: I think it's great fun to what people come up with, especially on challenges that I think are boring or uninspiring. The good/interesting/amusing/awesome photos are even more impressive when I've tried for the same thing and coming up lacking. It's fun to give high scores in those cases.

However, there have been a couple of challenges where I've gotten too emotionally involved. Where I really don't think I can give an unbiased vote. So it is nice to be able to skip those challenges.

If people honestly think that they can't vote in an unbiased manner, I'd rather they didn't vote. I'd just like people to try it for a week or two and then decide that they can't. If they can't, they can't. It's just too bad that it's some of the high voters that have then issue. I wouldn't mind if the low voters felt they couldn't vote. ;)

Bear_Music

Samsung Galaxy S21, S21+, S21 Ultra

Sony 24-70mm F4 Vario-Tessar T* FE OSS

06/02/2016 12:57:40 PM · #107

I don't really think that "voting in an unbiased manner" actually exists, in practice. I think when it comes to evaluating art, there's no such thing as "objective" so bias is part of the equation. I wish people would vote every challenge and vote however they feel. Incidentally, I'm not one of those who thinks it's somehow a bad thing that what, to the mass of voters, appears to be excellent may, to a minority of voters, be pabulum. That's just the way it goes.

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

06/02/2016 01:27:27 PM · #108

Originally posted by Paul:

I could understand your position against a person who *never* votes, but I am talking about someone who votes on some challenges and not others, based on their personal conscience. That still qualifies as participation in our our spirit and community.

tnun

Ricoh GR III

Pentax DA 18-135mm F3.5-5.6ED AL [IF] WR DC

06/02/2016 01:55:09 PM · #109

the more we try to control how (and how much) people vote the more we lose out. do people really think the point of dpc is the race to ribbon? certainly that can be fun, rewarding or even promoting of learning, but the real thing is the showing and reacting, and once you legislate the latter you lose the whole point of it.

PennyStreet

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 17mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko

06/02/2016 02:24:16 PM · #110

Originally posted by tnun:

I believe that part of me wants people to vote (especially participants)for selfish reasons... ie: it's the way I know that they've viewed the work I contributed. For me, it certainly doesn't matter what vote I'm given, it's purely the acknowledgement that we've all been treated in kind. I'm not racing for any ribbons. But when I realized a few months ago that less than half the contributors to any given challenge actually bother to vote, it made me think why am I doing this?
Now of course people view and don't vote, so that's an argument. Some people comment and don't vote and that's fine. But what bothers me the most is the feeling of general non-participation on the part of the participants... this site won't exist without contribution.
And the voting numbers are getting smaller and smaller... if we don't stress the importance and there are no votes, there won't be DPC.

pixelpig

Sony Alpha a55

Sony DT 1.8/50mm SAM

06/02/2016 02:24:23 PM · #111

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by tnun:

Huzzah! Well said. I agree.

Message edited by author 2016-06-02 14:24:43.

markwiley

Fujifilm X-Pro2

Fujifilm XF 10-24mm f/4 R IOS

06/02/2016 02:42:38 PM · #112

Originally posted by PennyStreet:

Originally posted by tnun:
the more we try to control how (and how much) people vote the more we lose out. do people really think the point of dpc is the race to ribbon? certainly that can be fun, rewarding or even promoting of learning, but the real thing is the showing and reacting, and once you legislate the latter you lose the whole point of it.

I believe that part of me wants people to vote (especially participants)for selfish reasons... ie: it's the way I know that they've viewed the work I contributed. For me, it certainly doesn't matter what vote I'm given, it's purely the acknowledgement that we've all been treated in kind. I'm not racing for any ribbons. But when I realized a few months ago that less than half the contributors to any given challenge actually bother to vote, it made me think why am I doing this?
Now of course people view and don't vote, so that's an argument. Some people comment and don't vote and that's fine. But what bothers me the most is the feeling of general non-participation on the part of the participants... this site won't exist without contribution.
And the voting numbers are getting smaller and smaller... if we don't stress the importance and there are no votes, there won't be DPC.

I agree with this. If you enjoy shooting for challenges, participating in the forums, etc., then you have a responsibility to the community to provide feedback through votes, comments, etc. Without the votes and comments, then DPC goes away. I have no interest in telling you how to vote -- vote based on whatever criterion you want. Just vote.

Tiberius

Samsung Galaxy S22, S22+, S22 Ultra

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

06/05/2016 11:14:51 PM · #113

you rated 29 of 29 entries (100%) goofy one of the highest average i've ever gave... I marked the goofiness :)

PennyStreet

Olympus OM-D E-M1

Olympus 17mm f/1.8 M.Zuiko

06/05/2016 11:18:19 PM · #114

Thanks
You have rated 29 of 29 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 6 images (20%) in this challenge.

Nikon AF Zoom-Nikkor 28-200mm f/3.5-5.6G IF-ED

06/05/2016 11:26:00 PM · #115

Goofy Faces · Standard Editing
It's time to get silly! Photograph a goofy face.
35 minutes and 52 seconds left · you rated 30 of 30 entries (100%) · Thank you for voting!

[Member Challenge]
Free Study 2016-05 · Standard Editing
Free Study for May, 2016.
2 days left · you rated 110 of 110 entries (100%) · Thank you for voting!

[Open Challenge]
Waiting III · Standard Editing
N/A
2 days left · you rated 63 of 63 entries (100%) · Thank you for voting!

[Member Challenge]
DiStOrTiOnS · Extended Editing Extra rules apply to this challenge
Deliberately, by means of digital editing, distort your .. [more]
4 days left · you rated 46 of 46 entries (100%) · Thank you for voting!

Will do some bumping during the week.

MeMex2

Nikon Z7II

06/07/2016 12:33:05 PM · #116

FS is ending tonight and there are around 62+ votes. 108 people entered the challenge.
No matter how much we spin this, nothing changes.

Free Study 2016-05 · Standard Editing
Free Study for May, 2016.
15 hours and 7 minutes left · you rated 109 of 109 entries (100%) · Thank you for voting!

JakeKurdsjuk

Canon EOS R5

Canon RF 100-500mm F4.5-7.1 L IS USM

06/07/2016 01:24:57 PM · #117

Free Study 2016-05 · Standard Editing
Free Study for May, 2016.
10 hours and 36 minutes left · you rated 107 of 109 entries (98%) *** Two entries skipped as I'd seen them prior

Waiting III · Standard Editing
N/A
10 hours and 36 minutes left · you rated 62 of 62 entries (100%)

Lydia

Canon EOS-6D

Canon EF 100mm f/2.8L Macro IS USM

06/07/2016 01:54:43 PM · #118

Originally posted by MeMex2:

FS is ending tonight and there are around 62+ votes. 108 people entered the challenge.
No matter how much we spin this, nothing changes.

Exactly! Talking about it, conjoling others... changes nothing. So, I don't understand why people still do it... on and on... (I'm not talking about you specifically, MeMex2.)

Details: Free Study for May, 2016.
Stats: You have rated 109 of 109 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 39 images (35%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 6.0917.

glad2badad

DJI Mavic Air 2

Sears 55mm f/1.4 M42

06/07/2016 05:15:52 PM · #119

Got my votes in a couple days ago ...

Free-Study 2016-05
Stats: You have rated 109 of 109 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 5.2202.

Waiting III
Stats: You have rated 62 of 62 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 4.7258.

Surreal and Dreamy
Stats: You have rated 56 of 56 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 5.1250.

DiStOrTiOnS
Stats: You have rated 0 of 47 images (0%) in this challenge.
Haven't even looked. I'll leave the photochop stuff to someone else. :-)

posthumous

Canon EOS-40D

Canon EF 50mm f/1.8 II

06/07/2016 10:21:14 PM · #120

Details: Free Study for May, 2016.
Stats: You have rated 109 of 109 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 10 images (9%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 4.6422.

Waiting
Stats: You have rated 63 of 63 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 7 images (11%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 4.9206.

Message edited by author 2016-06-07 23:13:24.

Tiberius

Samsung Galaxy S22, S22+, S22 Ultra

Panasonic Lumix G 14mm F2.5 ASPH

06/07/2016 11:56:58 PM · #121

only on waiting...

you rated 62 of 62 entries (100%)

mariuca

Fujifilm X-T30

Fujifilm XF 18-55mm f/2.8-4 OIS

06/13/2016 01:15:28 PM · #122

No sky:
You have rated 44 of 44 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 7 images (16%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 5.6591.