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12/31/2015 12:10:51 PM · #51 |
I'm really glad this thread surfaced again.
Wouldn't a small change like this make a nice start to 2016! |
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12/31/2015 06:21:34 PM · #52 |
| Let's do it. We need the spice/splice. Up. |
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12/31/2015 09:36:51 PM · #53 |
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12/31/2015 09:53:36 PM · #54 |
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12/31/2015 11:42:01 PM · #55 |
This is a great idea.
Let's do it. |
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01/01/2016 06:57:59 AM · #56 |
Originally posted by kirbic:
...it's a photography site, not a digital art site.... |
And again, the Expert challenges, few that they are, do not require anyone to enter. And......as I understand it, though you may use bits and pieces of other photographs to compose your image, you still *MUST* use photographs, correct???
Originally posted by hahn23:
At DPC today, there is much less emphasis on good photography and more emphasis on "fixing it in photoshop". |
That is an unequivocal load of crap, and as any kind of a decent photographer, you know better. You can't fix a bad photograph with PhotoShop.
Originally posted by hahn23:
I believe that is partially the reason for the decline in votes, entries and comments. |
Based on what???
Originally posted by hahn23:
I have stopped recommending DPC to novices because it's no longer a great learning site for photography. |
Well, there's a good idea!!! Instead of trying to help the site, stop recommending it. Not to mention that your reasoning is completely flawed.
Originally posted by hahn23:
I have seen DPC drift away from an emphasis on quality photography. |
Again, based on what??? I don't know anyone here who has anything but that in mind for themselves and others. Where do you get these ideas???
Originally posted by hahn23:
Some members refuse to list their exif data, thereby denying the sharing of valuable learning information for novices. |
Seriously??? What members refuse? Have you actually asked someone for that and been refused? Also, PLEASE explain to me how EXIF data is "valuable learning information" for a newbie. Before you get all excited about that, there is a whole slew of other things more relevant, like composition.
Mostly what I don't understand is the antagonism toward challenges that are offered under a ruleset that doesn't work for someone's own personal skills and/or tastes.
If you don't like a challenge based on a ruleset, DON'T ENTER IT!!!
Stop already with the bitching about it. The site tries to accomodate all interests and styles. And does it pretty darn well.
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01/01/2016 09:42:47 AM · #57 |
If I see a challenge I fancy then I jump in regardless of ruleset.. I do not do serious photo manipulation very well but it will never stop me entering a challenge if I want to do it.
The voters decide what is 'IN' so if 'cartoonish compositions' are winning all the time then its what the people want, good luck with that, will it change the way I personally shoot? NOPE!
What will be will be, move on folk, nothing to see here. |
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01/01/2016 09:52:03 AM · #58 |
Originally posted by MAK:
If I see a challenge I fancy then I jump in regardless of ruleset.. I do not do serious photo manipulation very well but it will never stop me entering a challenge if I want to do it.
The voters decide what is 'IN' so if 'cartoonish compositions' are winning all the time then its what the people want, good luck with that, will it change the way I personally shoot? NOPE!
What will be will be, move on folk, nothing to see here. |
+1
The ever-indomitable  MAK states it *so* well! LOL!!!
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01/01/2016 01:03:11 PM · #59 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by hahn23:
Some members refuse to list their exif data, thereby denying the sharing of valuable learning information for novices. |
Seriously??? What members refuse? Have you actually asked someone for that and been refused? Also, PLEASE explain to me how EXIF data is "valuable learning information" for a newbie. Before you get all excited about that, there is a whole slew of other things more relevant, like composition. |
Actually, Richard has a point here. These little bits of data really can help someone new, and even those not so new. I noticed a while ago people seem to be getting lazy with filling out the info. Even I like to see the data, and I've been doing this for quite a long time. You have to know the mechanics before you move in more artful directions...to say you don't, or that it's not valuable, is pure nonsense. You have to know the rules, and know them well, before you can break them.
You better know how shutter speed and f-stop choice effect the images you're making before you worry about composition. Again, you have to know how to properly use the machine. You don't ask a new driver to jump into a car and start drifting...nope.
Message edited by author 2016-01-01 13:07:51. |
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01/01/2016 01:06:44 PM · #60 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by MAK:
If I see a challenge I fancy then I jump in regardless of ruleset.. I do not do serious photo manipulation very well but it will never stop me entering a challenge if I want to do it.
The voters decide what is 'IN' so if 'cartoonish compositions' are winning all the time then its what the people want, good luck with that, will it change the way I personally shoot? NOPE!
What will be will be, move on folk, nothing to see here. |
+1
The ever-indomitable MAK states it *so* well! LOL!!! |
..."move on folk, nothing to see here."
I don't get it, are you being dismissive of the whole idea? We need a change around here, we've both been here a long time, it's getting a little stale around here.
I would love to know from the powers that be if a monthly Expert Editing FS is even being considered...if not, I'll move on. |
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01/01/2016 01:36:17 PM · #61 |
| This is a really good idea! So many times i have wished for a longer time to work on a idea for a expert editing challenge. |
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01/01/2016 02:40:03 PM · #62 |
Originally posted by RKT:
Actually, Richard has a point here. These little bits of data really can help someone new, and even those not so new. Even I like to see the data, and I've been doing this for quite a long time. |
I don't necessarily agree with you. I've never really ever looked at that as it pertained to someone else's image when I was looking at it for appreciation.
Originally posted by RKT:
You have to know the mechanics before you move in more artful directions...to say you don't, or that it's not valuable, is pure nonsense. You have to know the rules, and know them well, before you can break them. |
Well, I'm prolly not the right person to argue this as I'm certainly not the photog you or Richard is, but I've always operated on concentrating on what I do composition-wise to make my images better. Yes, it does help to understand the relationships between the settings and the result, but to me, getting hung up on the mechanics of the camera without learning how to compose the shot first is irrelevant knowledge.
Originally posted by RKT:
I noticed a while ago people seem to be getting lazy with filling out the info. |
The way I upload, that info loads with the image.
Originally posted by RKT:
You better know how shutter speed and f-stop choice effect the images you're making before you worry about composition. Again, you have to know how to properly use the machine. You don't ask a new driver to jump into a car and start drifting...nope. |
I obviously do not know what I'm doing as I never bothered to much study the precise details of how the settings work. From shooting for a while, I understand some basics, but to me that's come with time and shooting a lot. I pretty much am at a point where I can shoot something and get the shot the way I want it, but I also shoot on my own semi-auto default mode that I set up. I have a very expensive camera that a lot of time, money, and research went into how the internal processor works. Why on earth wouldn't I take advantage of that? I'm not making my living doing this stuff though I do sell my work and am partners in a gallery. It's not absolutely necessary that I get the shot first time, every time, and ON time. And a lot of the truly nice stuff that I have I would absolutely NOT have gotten had I not just grabbed the camera, flicked it on and shot. I rarely change my settings except in a studio environment. I let my camera do its thing.
Nobody taught me how to drift a car, powerslide, or how reverse lock in a slide is what you need to control direction. I learned all that behind the wheel. And though you can very much take advantage of instruction when learning to drive, there are also people who just inherently know what to do. I know I can do things with a car that a lot of people can't because of an inate sense of vehicle dynamics. You also certainly do not need to know how the actual linkage works in the clutch mechanism to disengage it to drive a car. I've worked on and completely restored cars for forty years........but my mechanical knowledge of how an engine works doesn't make me a better driver. Same with understanding horsepower and torque.....you can feel torque, and you can tell when horsepower falls off....but that's not technical knowledge.....that's FEEL. You either have that or you don't.
I power slide a car as much by feel as by actual knowledge. I also ride my motorcycles in much the same manner. I'm also comfortable with the difference in dynamics between rear, front, and all-wheel drive cars......and flat, inline, and vee engines all have specific characteristics that are quite different if you have that feel. We won't even get into the difference between boosted and normal aspros......
When I work with someone new who is just starting out with photography, I work with them to establish what they want from their images and help them to understand that their better efforts are spent in trying to replicate what it is that they like about their images during ther process, to take a positive look at what they've done and to concentrate on that. It's philosophical in approach. Most modern cameras are VERY good in automatic mode. To me, it makes more sense to tell a new photog to let the camera alone, and learn how to create the image. Down the road, once you have an idea wehat you're doing in the creation of the images, you can delve into the technical mysteries of the camera and photography. I've seen too many people get overwhelmed by trying to learn all the technical details at the same time they're learning how to compose an image. I know people who are technically adept, but really don't have "The Eye". That can't be taught, either. Why not figure out if you have that, and see if you casn develop it, and enjoy photography first? Then explore and refine from there.
Sorry for the blather......I've wanted to say all this for a while. I truly believe that an awful lot of people who genuinely have talent and potential are daunted and driven from photography by the drudgery that's always forced onto newbies as a requirement. I just don't agree with that. I'm self-taught.....maybe it's obvious and I should take the courses, but I'd rather chew my arm off than spend hours upon hours trying to learn and understand something that I'm not convinced is an absolute necessity.
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01/01/2016 02:44:45 PM · #63 |
Originally posted by MAK:
If I see a challenge I fancy then I jump in regardless of ruleset.. I do not do serious photo manipulation very well but it will never stop me entering a challenge if I want to do it. |
Originally posted by RKT:
I don't get it, are you being dismissive of the whole idea? We need a change around here, we've both been here a long time, it's getting a little stale around here. |
I saw the remark in reference to his statement. Enter the challenge if you want, or don't......but don't stand around and bitch.
At least that's my take from being around him for a week or two.
Message edited by author 2016-01-01 15:55:02.
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01/01/2016 02:55:16 PM · #64 |
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
Originally posted by NikonJeb:
[quote=MAK] If I see a challenge I fancy then I jump in regardless of ruleset.. I do not do serious photo manipulation very well but it will never stop me entering a challenge if I want to do it. |
Originally posted by RKT:
I don't get it, are you being dismissive of the whole idea? We need a change around here, we've both been here a long time, it's getting a little stale around here. |
I saw the remark in reference to his statement. Enter the challenge if you want, or don't......but don't stand around and bitch.
At least that's my take from being around him for a week or two. |
Exactly that... if they make 50 challenges a month I'll enter the 2 or 3 I fancy, or not... simple as that. |
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01/01/2016 02:59:23 PM · #65 |
So I'm "bitching" by starting this thread asking for another FS option?
This is a challenge suggestion, you can like or not....that's all. |
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01/01/2016 03:59:58 PM · #66 |
Originally posted by RKT:
So I'm "bitching" by starting this thread asking for another FS option?
This is a challenge suggestion, you can like or not....that's all. |
No! Not from where I see things....
I was referring tyo the people who constantly want to restrict things ESPECIALLY the Expert challenges.
Did I say you were bitching? NO.
This was from one of my earlier posts.....
Mostly what I don't understand is the antagonism toward challenges that are offered under a ruleset that doesn't work for someone's own personal skills and/or tastes.
If you don't like a challenge based on a ruleset, DON'T ENTER IT!!!
Stop already with the bitching about it. The site tries to accomodate all interests and styles. And does it pretty darn well.
I was agreeing with MAK for saying basically the same thing I did, only more succinctly.
Please try to make sure you understand the context of what's said before you go sticking words in someone's mouth.
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01/01/2016 05:40:48 PM · #67 |
| This thread is getting WAY too contentious and personal. It's not serving any purpose any longer. Management is aware of the desire of some for monthly expert free studies, that's all I can say right now. |
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