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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Suggestions >> Monthly Free Study- Expert Editing
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12/07/2015 10:05:39 AM · #1
Not to replace our already running monthly FS, just an option to it. You may enter one or the other, but not both...or maybe both. Those details can be worked out. I still kinda like the one or the other idea. I thought if we had a choice, the folks that strongly dislike anything "expert" would not even have to look at them if the are in their own separate challenge. And those of us who enjoy a more open themed expert challenge would have a whole month to work on something.
12/07/2015 10:28:44 AM · #2
A fab idea ! the one or the other being best in my view.

I wonder now why no one has ever thought of this before, or perhaps they have ?

12/07/2015 10:33:16 AM · #3
Originally posted by RKT:

Not to replace our already running monthly FS, just an option to it. You may enter one or the other, but not both...or maybe both. Those details can be worked out. I still kinda like the one or the other idea. I thought if we had a choice, the folks that strongly dislike anything "expert" would not even have to look at them if the are in their own separate challenge. And those of us who enjoy a more open themed expert challenge would have a whole month to work on something.


+++++
12/07/2015 10:47:30 AM · #4
I really like this idea. If someone had images they wanted to enter in each I don't think I'd restrict them. We should encourage as much participation in challenges as people are willing to enter.
12/07/2015 10:55:45 AM · #5
Sounds fun!
12/07/2015 11:02:03 AM · #6
It would be pretty sweet to have a month to do an Expert.

I would also like to see a Best of 2015 in both Minimal and Expert as well (along with the current Advanced).
12/07/2015 11:27:35 AM · #7
I'm all about choice, so on the surface it sounds like a great idea... the problem that I see is that we are already seeing fewer and fewer entries and if we split challenges into editing categories, that will further reduce the entries into a given contest. At some point, just give everybody a ribbon and be done with it. Bottom line, if we had much larger participation, I think this could work. But not with current participation levels.
12/07/2015 11:43:28 AM · #8
Originally posted by kirbic:

I'm all about choice, so on the surface it sounds like a great idea... the problem that I see is that we are already seeing fewer and fewer entries and if we split challenges into editing categories, that will further reduce the entries into a given contest. At some point, just give everybody a ribbon and be done with it. Bottom line, if we had much larger participation, I think this could work. But not with current participation levels.


Any excuse to discourage Expert challenges will do, I guess.

I still wonder why we need so many rules. Either forbid editing, or allow it. I'm in favor of allowing it without restriction. That would do a lot to increase participation, more than enough to account for those who would quit because they don't want to edit their shots & don't want anyone else to edit their shots either.

This is a great idea, 2 monthly free studies, one in Expert rules. I would love to see what I would have to vote on. And I would be very happy with a chance to offer my best once a month.
12/07/2015 11:47:48 AM · #9
Originally posted by kirbic:

I'm all about choice, so on the surface it sounds like a great idea... the problem that I see is that we are already seeing fewer and fewer entries and if we split challenges into editing categories, that will further reduce the entries into a given contest. At some point, just give everybody a ribbon and be done with it. Bottom line, if we had much larger participation, I think this could work. But not with current participation levels.

I don't expect this would be a major issue, Free Studies are the one category that DO have a lot of entries regularly. Besides, I see no reason why it shouldn't be both, not either/or. I'd be in favor of this.
12/07/2015 11:52:41 AM · #10
Originally posted by pixelpig:

Originally posted by kirbic:

I'm all about choice, so on the surface it sounds like a great idea... the problem that I see is that we are already seeing fewer and fewer entries and if we split challenges into editing categories, that will further reduce the entries into a given contest. At some point, just give everybody a ribbon and be done with it. Bottom line, if we had much larger participation, I think this could work. But not with current participation levels.


Any excuse to discourage Expert challenges will do, I guess.

I still wonder why we need so many rules. Either forbid editing, or allow it. I'm in favor of allowing it without restriction. That would do a lot to increase participation, more than enough to account for those who would quit because they don't want to edit their shots & don't want anyone else to edit their shots either.

This is a great idea, 2 monthly free studies, one in Expert rules. I would love to see what I would have to vote on. And I would be very happy with a chance to offer my best once a month.


I added the bold...and this is why I suggested this. I think it may actually bring some frustrated members back, and encourage those who have not yet left to hang around. And it really has nothing to do with more ribbons and that sort of thing...it's about keeping up with competing websites ( I never thought I would say that ) and retaining what membership is still here.
12/07/2015 12:09:06 PM · #11
Originally posted by kirbic:

I'm all about choice, so on the surface it sounds like a great idea... the problem that I see is that we are already seeing fewer and fewer entries and if we split challenges into editing categories, that will further reduce the entries into a given contest. At some point, just give everybody a ribbon and be done with it. Bottom line, if we had much larger participation, I think this could work. But not with current participation levels.

Well, maybe time to think how to raise the number of entries.... Maybe lower the number of challenges. I for me can't find the time to participate in all. I try during DPL, but once it's done, it's over and out for a while.
But this seems a great idea, gives you time to shoot and to work on the images in post-processing.

Message edited by author 2015-12-07 12:09:46.
12/07/2015 12:13:51 PM · #12
I'm all for monthly expert FS even if it only has 20 entries. Expert editing is closer to how the rest of the world edits and we need to polish those skills.

As to participation, perhaps if more 'hidden gem' challenges (themed challenges and/or free studies) were offered, where time restrictions on the images were loosened, it might entice some of the jaded masses to return. It would combine the lure of being able to dust off and process your brilliant snaps from yesteryear, with the promise of some top notch work displayed, both the gloss and the grit, snazzing up the site.

Frankly, jumping to get a specific shot within a week's time is becoming less attractive to me, and (thanks to dpc), I have hard drives full of images that I'll never revisit unless there is an external motivator, like a hidden gem challenge.
12/07/2015 12:22:31 PM · #13
Originally posted by pixelpig:

Any excuse to discourage Expert challenges will do, I guess.


Niiiiiice. Nothing like a little combativeness to start the week out right, I always say.

Originally posted by pixelpig:

I still wonder why we need so many rules. Either forbid editing, or allow it. I'm in favor of allowing it without restriction. That would do a lot to increase participation, more than enough to account for those who would quit because they don't want to edit their shots & don't want anyone else to edit their shots either.

This is a great idea, 2 monthly free studies, one in Expert rules. I would love to see what I would have to vote on. And I would be very happy with a chance to offer my best once a month.


We have 'em because it's a photography site, not a digital art site. I do agree, however, that we should be revisiting why we need three rule sets. I also feel that the rules, particularly the Advanced Rules, could be more concise and understandable, but achieving consensus on a major change there is going to be an uphill battle.
12/07/2015 12:31:19 PM · #14
Originally posted by skewsme:

I'm all for monthly expert FS even if it only has 20 entries. Expert editing is closer to how the rest of the world edits and we need to polish those skills.

As to participation, perhaps if more 'hidden gem' challenges (themed challenges and/or free studies) were offered, where time restrictions on the images were loosened, it might entice some of the jaded masses to return. It would combine the lure of being able to dust off and process your brilliant snaps from yesteryear, with the promise of some top notch work displayed, both the gloss and the grit, snazzing up the site.

Frankly, jumping to get a specific shot within a week's time is becoming less attractive to me, and (thanks to dpc), I have hard drives full of images that I'll never revisit unless there is an external motivator, like a hidden gem challenge.


Yes! Exactly!
12/07/2015 12:38:41 PM · #15
Originally posted by kirbic:

...it's a photography site, not a digital art site....


At DPC today, there is much less emphasis on good photography and more emphasis on "fixing it in photoshop". I believe that is partially the reason for the decline in votes, entries and comments. I have stopped recommending DPC to novices because it's no longer a great learning site for photography.

I suppose the trend to more emphasis on Expert Editing will continue, regardless of whether it's in the best interests of the community.

Message edited by author 2015-12-07 12:39:25.
12/07/2015 12:48:43 PM · #16
Originally posted by hahn23:


I suppose the trend to more emphasis on Expert Editing will continue, regardless of whether it's in the best interests of the community.


Within the last 100 challenges, 9 were under Expert Editing rules (i.e. 9%)
Within the last 300 challenges, 33 were under Expert Editing rules (i.e. 11%)
Within the last 1000 challenges, 104 were under Expert Editing rules (i.e. 10.4%)

What trend are you talking about? On the contrary, those types of challenges have been kept to the same frequency for ages.
12/07/2015 01:07:34 PM · #17
Oh no I do not feel like I'm fixing my shots & I am so tired of that comment.
12/07/2015 01:08:31 PM · #18
Originally posted by Kroburg:

Originally posted by kirbic:

I'm all about choice, so on the surface it sounds like a great idea... the problem that I see is that we are already seeing fewer and fewer entries and if we split challenges into editing categories, that will further reduce the entries into a given contest. At some point, just give everybody a ribbon and be done with it. Bottom line, if we had much larger participation, I think this could work. But not with current participation levels.

Well, maybe time to think how to raise the number of entries.... Maybe lower the number of challenges. I for me can't find the time to participate in all. I try during DPL, but once it's done, it's over and out for a while.
But this seems a great idea, gives you time to shoot and to work on the images in post-processing.


Yes yes I agree!
12/07/2015 01:18:14 PM · #19
To me the higher scoring expertly edited photos here no longer look like photos but more like airbrush paintings or cartoons and in that respect they do not help the image of this site at all, however some photos are not too overly cooked and an expert edit can help to enhance the artistic idea that was the photographers intention. I reckon we should have a challenge like this, who knows maybe one day DPC will be like the real word of photography and overly cooked photos won't be so handsomely rewarded.
12/07/2015 01:48:12 PM · #20
When I look at a photograph, I want to know that the image I'm seeing is at it's root a photographic capture. Viewing and/or voting on complete fabrications just doesn't turn my crank. While they may be beautiful and artistic, I'm about photography. So for me, the Expert Editing challenges hold very little attraction, and I do think that having a lot of them does move DPC away from being a photography-centric site. It's not that Expert-edited images *necessarily* are non-photographic, but often they are.
12/07/2015 02:31:20 PM · #21
So...the image of this site is what? Amateurs? I don't think so.
12/07/2015 02:50:35 PM · #22
Originally posted by hahn23:


At DPC today, there is much less emphasis on good photography and more emphasis on "fixing it in photoshop". I believe that is partially the reason for the decline in votes, entries and comments. I have stopped recommending DPC to novices because it's no longer a great learning site for photography.


On what do you base this observation, Richard? We have had a slew of new members who have done nothing but express massive appreciation for what they are learning here. While it may no longer be a "great learning site" for people who have evolved into good - or even great - photographers, it remains, at its core, what it has always been. Some would argue that THAT is the problem.

We are a community of like-minded people who often have widely diverging goals for their photography. Many of them become professional in a genre that requires excellent photoshop skills. Like it or not, photoshop is an integral part of digital photography for some people. Do they not also deserve an opportunity to hone their skills?

Originally posted by hahn23:

I suppose the trend to more emphasis on Expert Editing will continue, regardless of whether it's in the best interests of the community.


What Christophe said. Perhaps you are referring to the loosening of the rules regarding overlays, and certain filters. These are all tools being used out there in the "real" world. Shouldn't any institution referring to itself as a place of "learning" keep up with the times?
12/07/2015 02:57:17 PM · #23
I just snatched this off the interweb. From a prominent member.

Reality is just a starting point. Reality exists only in the mind. People think the camera captures reality, but it doesn't. It captures reflected light. We can't see the light. We can only see reflected light, we make up our own story for what it means to us.
12/07/2015 03:10:33 PM · #24
Different does not equal wrong.

Some of you want to be photo purists, some of us want no restrictions. There is room for BOTH on a photography site. In fact, if there ISN'T room for both (and everything in between), then what is the point at all?

12/07/2015 03:23:54 PM · #25
Originally posted by LindaLee:

Different does not equal wrong.

Some of you want to be photo purists, some of us want no restrictions. There is room for BOTH on a photography site. In fact, if there ISN'T room for both (and everything in between), then what is the point at all?


Well we at least should want to keep our focus (pun intended) on photography. Under Expert rules, I can pretty much create whatever I please. The emphasis is still on a creative process, it's just not on a photographic creative process. That's my point. And, FWIW, I am no one's purist.
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