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10/08/2004 06:18:01 AM · #51
I would like to add my voice of support for both book ideas. I very much like the single challenge charity book and I would buy a copy for sure.

I also very much like the idea of a "DPC year in review" book and the proposed layout is excellent. Again I would certainly buy a copy. As for whether D&L should make a profit on this - absolutely they should. I don't know if they run DPC as their full time business but either way they have to live and eat just the same as me. I expect to get paid for my hard work and I have no objection to paying D&L for theirs.

John
10/08/2004 06:36:13 AM · #52
On a slightly more practical note, would we print from the actual entry jpegs, or have to get higher DPI/higher resolution shots from each photog? Since the challenge entries are low-res (640px), lossy compressed (jpegs), and low DPI (72dpi for web is normal), would they be suitable for printing from? If not, then some photogs many not be able to produce high enough quality versions of their entries...
10/08/2004 08:47:26 AM · #53
Regretably that is a good point. To be worth printing they would really need to be better quality images than we see here on screen.

John
10/08/2004 08:59:34 AM · #54
I wouldn't say regrettably. That's just one of the issues to be dealt with if the book project goes ahead. Maybe as a stipulation for the associated challenge each entrant would agree to submit a higher resolution image at the end of the challenge.

There are tools out there that will allow pictures to be upsized without the loss of quality so I don't think this is too much of an issue. Also, maybe some of the photoshop/editing gurus on the site could volunteer their services in this regard.

To me this is not an unsurmountable hurdle.
10/08/2004 09:08:55 AM · #55
Using my sample layout, the only "hi res" images we would need to obtain would be from the 1st-place winners. The 640-pixel challenge entries are plenty big to print as 300ppi thumbnails. (They would be over 2" at that resolution; they may actually need to be scaled down for a 300ppi layout, depending on the paper size of the finished product.) And if you went by the 150ppi minimum that DPCPrints uses, you could print any 640-pixel challenge entry and end up with an image over 4" without any interpolation.

If the first-place picture already has a print available on DPCPrints, then that would be an easy way to get a high-res image suitable for printing.

To me, the biggest hurdle would be getting permission from the top-5 placing images to have their copyrighted work included in a book.

Message edited by author 2004-10-08 09:30:12.
10/08/2004 09:30:25 AM · #56
Originally posted by EddyG:

To me, the biggest hurdle would be getting permission from the top-5 placing images to have their copyrighted work included in a book.

Don't we already give DPC that permission as part of the TOS? Most sites include language granting a non-exclusive, royalty-free license to use the images in self-promotional projects beyond the website itself. Separate, explicit permission would be nice, but possibly unnecessary, and would certainly be a bookkeeping headache to be avoided if possible.
10/08/2004 09:52:39 AM · #57
Originally posted by BobsterLobster:

Excellent idea...
why not have a challenge especially for a chosen charity, then publish the results of that challenge in a fundraising book. The challenge could happen over a couple of months to really get the standard up.


I think this is great - especially if there was a carefully crafted 'challenge' theme to be interpreted in a sympathetic way with the mission of the charity. I'm much rather look at a book of images on a particular emotional topic, rather than an essentially random selection of pictures linked by a common web site on various topics.
10/08/2004 09:53:44 AM · #58
Originally posted by EddyG:

The one good thing is that the quality would likely be excellent (if their calendars are any indication, which are really nice).


Really ? I've had several shutterfly calendars from various sources - they are okay, but really not up to the quality of a well printed book. Maybe they've improved a lot in the last year. The main problem with the calendars was the paper used though - a matte style paper that is okay for pictures of people but doesn't really hold the contrast well across the full range. Not sure if their books are glossy or not, which would certainly help.

Message edited by author 2004-10-08 10:01:35.
10/08/2004 09:55:54 AM · #59
Gordon: I see 28mm.org is doing a book -- maybe you can find out some printing info from Rachel for us.
10/08/2004 09:58:41 AM · #60
That works well for the Year in Review book project, but not as well for the book charity challenge idea. Unless your were to put two photos on a page thereby needing less resolution?

Originally posted by EddyG:

Using my sample layout, the only "hi res" images we would need to obtain would be from the 1st-place winners. The 640-pixel challenge entries are plenty big to print as 300ppi thumbnails. (They would be over 2" at that resolution; they may actually need to be scaled down for a 300ppi layout, depending on the paper size of the finished product.) And if you went by the 150ppi minimum that DPCPrints uses, you could print any 640-pixel challenge entry and end up with an image over 4" without any interpolation.

If the first-place picture already has a print available on DPCPrints, then that would be an easy way to get a high-res image suitable for printing.

To me, the biggest hurdle would be getting permission from the top-5 placing images to have their copyrighted work included in a book.
10/08/2004 10:02:10 AM · #61
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Gordon: I see 28mm.org is doing a book -- maybe you can find out some printing info from Rachel for us.


Yup, maybe. Gary Moyer (Scab lab) was part of a group that did an excellent self published book called 'Toy Camera' The quality of the printing in that is outstanding.

Toy Camera : The book

Message edited by author 2004-10-08 10:02:50.
10/08/2004 11:01:42 AM · #62
I'm writing a long email to the admins and will send it this evening. I'll be proposing to coordinate the project. I'll keep you guys posted on what they think about my proposition.

Until then, things to think about....

- sponsors (publishers, magazines, camera companies...)
- building a solid team of DPC photogs to work on this
- book format and layout
- gathering and choosing images
- selling strategies

I also agree that the book should have a theme. Something that is quite general to allow for a variety of works but also that would be in context to Amnesty Intl' (I still think this is the best charity). Something like "The little things in life" or "Miracles of our planet".

I don't think that the images should be chosen through a challenge or by taking the top 5 of each challenge. I think that each photog should submit their best hi-res photo representing the chosen book theme. Submitting to DPC and submitting for a book are two different things alltogether.

Keep on posting your feedback! We'll do this!!

And thanks to Daniel for starting this thread. :-)

Yanik

10/08/2004 12:58:34 PM · #63
Originally posted by kosmikkreeper:

I'm writing a long email to the admins and will send it this evening. I'll be proposing to coordinate the project. I'll keep you guys posted on what they think about my proposition.

Until then, things to think about....

- sponsors (publishers, magazines, camera companies...)
- building a solid team of DPC photogs to work on this
- book format and layout
- gathering and choosing images
- selling strategies

I also agree that the book should have a theme. Something that is quite general to allow for a variety of works but also that would be in context to Amnesty Intl' (I still think this is the best charity). Something like "The little things in life" or "Miracles of our planet".

I don't think that the images should be chosen through a challenge or by taking the top 5 of each challenge. I think that each photog should submit their best hi-res photo representing the chosen book theme. Submitting to DPC and submitting for a book are two different things alltogether.

Keep on posting your feedback! We'll do this!!

And thanks to Daniel for starting this thread. :-)

Yanik


How would you propose to edit it ? group vote ? El Presidentie with one person, one vote (nothing wrong with that), challenge voting with a cut-off point ?


10/08/2004 01:14:12 PM · #64
Originally posted by Gordon:

Originally posted by kosmikkreeper:

I'm writing a long email to the admins and will send it this evening. I'll be proposing to coordinate the project. I'll keep you guys posted on what they think about my proposition.

Until then, things to think about....

- sponsors (publishers, magazines, camera companies...)
- building a solid team of DPC photogs to work on this
- book format and layout
- gathering and choosing images
- selling strategies

I also agree that the book should have a theme. Something that is quite general to allow for a variety of works but also that would be in context to Amnesty Intl' (I still think this is the best charity). Something like "The little things in life" or "Miracles of our planet".

I don't think that the images should be chosen through a challenge or by taking the top 5 of each challenge. I think that each photog should submit their best hi-res photo representing the chosen book theme. Submitting to DPC and submitting for a book are two different things alltogether.

Keep on posting your feedback! We'll do this!!

And thanks to Daniel for starting this thread. :-)

Yanik


How would you propose to edit it ? group vote ? El Presidentie with one person, one vote (nothing wrong with that), challenge voting with a cut-off point ?


Very good question Gordon. And I think we could come up with lots of good ideas. I t would be nice to see what people suggest.

My idea would be to submit a photo in a "challenge" entitled Book Project or something, with a description of the chosen theme. People have a month to sumbit any photo they want (as long as they have the hi-res version) including past entries. The only difference is that there isn't any time restrictions and post processing restricitons as long as "photographic intergrity" is respected. People will vote like a regular challenge.

Now, depending on the chosen layout and the number of photos to be inserted in the book, the top "x" photos will be in the book.

How does that sound?
10/08/2004 01:24:20 PM · #65
Originally posted by kosmikkreeper:


I don't think that the images should be chosen through a challenge or by taking the top 5 of each challenge.


It really depends on the goal of the book. If it is to showcase DPChallenge, then a "Year in Review" book that features challenge winners is a better choice.

If it is for some other cause like you are advocating, then a dedicated challenge (or challenges) would work.

My preference is to keep things apolitical and concentrate on quality photography, so I would be more interested in the "Year in Review" choice.

Dave
10/08/2004 02:31:12 PM · #66
It appears that the book idea is good for a couple of divergent reasons. Kos is excited about spearheading a themed book unrelated to challenge results for a charity benefit, and who could speak out against that? The original idea was to go with ribbons or top-5 or such, and probably that's a book that would interest me more. I'd be more likely to buy a "Year in Review" book, probably, because of the diversity of the photos.
10/08/2004 04:51:03 PM · #67
Whether or not DPC does this, Picture Infinity may offer DPC-image books in the near future. If we do, I'll contact individuals about having their images in the book. I want to see the quality of Shutterfly's book before I commit to this.

M
10/08/2004 05:39:09 PM · #68
Originally posted by wkmen:

Kos is excited about spearheading a themed book unrelated to challenge results for a charity benefit, and who could speak out against that? The original idea was to go with ribbons or top-5 or such, and probably that's a book that would interest me more. I'd be more likely to buy a "Year in Review" book, probably, because of the diversity of the photos.


Personally, while I prefer the "Year in Review" theme, I'm not far from preferring the other format of all new photos being voted on and published. Assuming that we can find good publishing in the first place, there's no reason not to do both. I'm sure there'll be plenty of folks ready to help out on both projects.

-Dan
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