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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> Texture Overlay?
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10/30/2015 08:08:15 AM · #1
I'd really like to enter this challenge in order to learn something new but, given how new it is to me I haven't got a clue where to start!

Grateful if someone could point me in the right direction. Questions that immediately spring to mind are:

a. What might a photograph look like if it was taken 'to add texture'?
b. Are there any examples of such an image (both texture and final) that I can look at?
c. Is there a tutorial on how to overlay the texture using PS?

Thank you in advance.

Peeby
10/30/2015 08:12:00 AM · #2
Try this Tutorial on DPChallenge for a start ...
10/30/2015 08:29:13 AM · #3
I am clear on the fact that this has to be two shots both taken by me during the timeframe and that we will need to submit both photos for verification if asked. My question/assumption is that Advanced Editing Rules apply to both images both before and after merging, correct? In other words, am I limited to only using Advanced Editing techniques on the texture image before applying it as a texture, or am I not limited in the creation of the texture?
10/30/2015 08:43:26 AM · #4
As I read it you should stick to the Advanced rules throughout. The "special" rule is only because the use of the texture is required rather than optional, and the one-time disclaimer about how much the overlay can contribute to the composition.
10/30/2015 08:59:44 AM · #5
Check out the overay images in this thread!
10/30/2015 01:06:58 PM · #6
Originally posted by pixelpig:

Check out the overay images in this thread!


I did, and I will use this image to clarify something...

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_836803.jpg

As I understand it, the rules specify that the "texture" needs to be applied to the entire image. In the image above, assuming the eye was in the "texture", unless the eye was the only thing in the image then this should be a DQ, even with the one-time disclaimer regarding the contribution to the image by the texture.
10/30/2015 02:55:51 PM · #7
You are correct. The eye would disqualify the image under anything but expert rules.

There was also a texture overlay used in the example image that is legal.
10/30/2015 03:01:42 PM · #8
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:

As I understand it, the rules specify that the "texture" needs to be applied to the entire image.


Great point, thanks for posting that. I had forgotten about the entire image thing, and had some ideas in mind that would have been only partially applied.
10/30/2015 03:51:23 PM · #9
it would be great if someone could post side by side images acceptable / not acceptable for this challenge, even drawing from the images i the thread cited above.

i realize the "easy" case is a texture that makes the underlying image look grungy, old, cracked, etc.

but what about textures that actually texturize an object in the image?
10/30/2015 07:43:29 PM · #10
I can offer an example of an image with texture that was DQ'd...and why. And, as stated above, a texture must be applied to the entire image, not applied then masked out of part of the image.

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1149806.jpg

Message edited by author 2015-10-30 19:44:52.
10/31/2015 03:28:40 PM · #11
What is the definition of a texture? how much opacity is allowed? Even if I use only 7% opacity in overlay, I can still clearly see my original image I used for the texture. Does it have to be a pattern?
10/31/2015 04:19:41 PM · #12
Originally posted by GeorgesBogaert:

What is the definition of a texture? how much opacity is allowed? Even if I use only 7% opacity in overlay, I can still clearly see my original image I used for the texture. Does it have to be a pattern?

For examples of textures you can try browsing the Textures Library to see what people have used and/or made available for others to use (not for this challenge though).

There are no fixed limits as to opacity, but it seems there will be considerable latitude given for this specific challenge. If you choose to "push the limits" I expect some people will comment about whether you have gone too far and strayed into the realm of "double-exposure" or "composite image" instead.

If your texture photo doesn't have a specific "subject" it is probably OK. For example, a board with some wood grain and a couple of knots would probably work as a texture, while an extreme close-up of a face with distinctive eyes probably wouldn't, even though if reduced to bare outlines they might be compositionally similar.

Message edited by author 2015-10-31 16:20:05.
10/31/2015 06:10:19 PM · #13
Originally posted by GeneralE:

If your texture photo doesn't have a specific "subject" it is probably OK. For example, a board with some wood grain and a couple of knots would probably work as a texture, while an extreme close-up of a face with distinctive eyes probably wouldn't, even though if reduced to bare outlines they might be compositionally similar.


And this is where this challenge needs something specific in the description. All it says is that you are to "Use another photograph taken during the challenge time-frame to add texture to your original." It says absolutely nothing about the other image having to be nondescript in its content. NOTHING!! So, as I read it, particularly when taken with the flag exception, I would expect that I could use a photo of "an extreme close-up of a face with distinctive eyes" because there has been no guidelines given whatsoever regarding the other image.

I know the SC is want to give specific direction around this, but I would love to see some specific clarification around this, because according to your statement you've already thrown a DQ at 3 of my working ideas.

Message edited by author 2015-10-31 18:10:35.
10/31/2015 07:46:27 PM · #14
Extra Rules: Your image MUST contain a texture overlay, shot by you during the challenge time-frame. For this challenge only, we will be a little more lenient on how aggressive your texture may be.

I'm confused by the extra rule. General E talks about double exposures/composites if the overlay is too agressive but surely an overlay (at what ever opacity) makes that image a composite or double exposure? Why should SC (who do a brilliant job) now have to redefine what an overlay is by deciding if 'it' is too aggressive? imho 'too aggressive' would imply 51%+ opacity which would simply mean they got confused and the 'overlay' they see is in fact the image and the 'overly was at 49% opacity?

My 50:50 shot is staying in my 'do not enter' folder ;)
10/31/2015 07:57:11 PM · #15
Maybe there needs to be a definition of what a texture is? I was assuming a texture overlay is something (pattern, grain, fuzz) that is fairly consistent throughout the image that gets placed over the bottom layer (which probably has more defining features).. and that the aggressive part has to do with how opaque the texture is in comparison to what's beneath it. I love double exposures, but I think this is a whole different ballgame. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Soon, if possible. Thanks.
10/31/2015 08:16:02 PM · #16
Originally posted by PennyStreet:

Maybe there needs to be a definition of what a texture is? I was assuming a texture overlay is something (pattern, grain, fuzz) that is fairly consistent throughout the image that gets placed over the bottom layer (which probably has more defining features).. and that the aggressive part has to do with how opaque the texture is in comparison to what's beneath it. I love double exposures, but I think this is a whole different ballgame. Please correct me if I'm wrong. Soon, if possible. Thanks.


Yes, 21_F.gif PennyStreet nails it. There is a difference between "texture" and "double exposure" and 21_F.gif PennyStreet defines it quite precisely.
10/31/2015 09:20:58 PM · #17
I'd also add that if the texture becomes a second subject (or the primary subject) then it's too much. The texture should compliment the main subject and not become a subject on it's own.
10/31/2015 09:37:09 PM · #18
Maybe some shots to talk about?

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_744137.jpg

For this comp, I used a motion blurred shot of the tree for texture & layered it with an un-blurred shot. I am assuming this would get voted DNMC due to the painterly effect & the too-subtle use of texture.

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1059313.jpg

I made the texture for this in PS.

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1032179.jpg

The texture for this was a nearby rock.

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1076411.jpg

The texture for this was a cracked sidewalk.

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_698435.jpg

The texture for this was a crumpled sheet of aluminum foil.

Using texture overlays is fun, or at least it can be. The right texture can add a new layer of meaning & possibility to the comp. I'm sorry to read so much anxiety in this thread. I don't see how SC or anyone can write a set of rules that would help people feel more secure. Which is why I'm in favor of as few rules as possible. I was looking forward to creating something for this challenge, I guess I'll be hoping for the brown ribbon again.

Message edited by author 2015-10-31 21:51:03.
11/01/2015 05:30:04 AM · #19
I think we're beyond talking about shots that include textures. We can go to 101 different sites that offer textures for download and get an idea of what is typically used and how it's applied. What's at question here is not how to apply it, but what can and cannot be used for that "texture image". As the challenge rules are read there is nothing stated about what the texture image may or may not be, only that the image must be taken by us during the challenge period, and that some amount of greater latitude will be given in judging the overall impact of the texture to the image.

With that said, and before I did the hole deeper, there was a discussion in this thread that speaks to he impact of the texture overlay, and I suspect that has more to do with the guts of this than the actual image content. For those not wanting to click thru, the crux is whether or not the addition of texture image violates the Advanced Editing rules set, and this You May Not condition in particular...

You may not use ANY editing technique to create new image area, objects or features (such as lens flare or motion) that didn't already exist in your original capture(s).

So going to the idea of using a face close up as a texture, if there weren't eyes and a nose and mouth in the original image then you're probably going to be hard pressed in utilizing it without violating the "new feature" condition. Thinking hard about a couple of my ideas, I suspect I was treading the razor's edge of "creating a new image area" with a couple textures I shot.

As I think through this some more, I suspect that even some commonly seen and listed "textures" would invite DQ here. For example the textures here involve planks of wood. As I read the advanced rule set, the lines between the planks would certainly be apt to add either new features (the lines) or divide the image into areas, so that would be a DQ normally (but perhaps not with this challenge due to the flag), but the wood grain from a single board might not be. Similarly, a common texture like this metal plate would almost certainly add new features unless applied extremely subtly.

I believe vawendy's image in the discussion linked above is a great example of what isn't acceptable.

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1058471.jpg

It's a portrait with a paint peel texture overlay and Bear's statement in the discussion clearly calls the additions new image areas, and I would agree, at least with the level of opacity with which it was applied. I think the key here is that whatever we choose we need to keep the feature and image area addition exclusions in mind - as long as we don't create anything new then it's likely OK, particularly with a little added tolerance in this challenge.
11/01/2015 06:53:03 AM · #20
Originally posted by glad2badad:

I'd also add that if the texture becomes a second subject (or the primary subject) then it's too much. The texture should compliment the main subject and not become a subject on it's own.

What was the old expression? I've just been Yanko'd (or Slippy'd) - can't remember. :-)
11/01/2015 08:50:04 AM · #21
not sure for my entry.... I will remove it start over again. Really don't want a DQ
11/03/2015 02:20:52 PM · #22
Does the texture have to go over the entire image? Or some small spots can be masked out?
11/03/2015 02:25:44 PM · #23
Originally posted by Lydia:

Does the texture have to go over the entire image? Or some small spots can be masked out?


As stated by Bear_Music in the conversation I linked above, "A texture, basically, would be something of relatively low opacity applied to the entire image."

I'd imagine you can vary the opacity, but not eliminate it entirely, the same way you can't completely black out the details in a window.
11/03/2015 03:46:40 PM · #24
Originally posted by giantmike:

Originally posted by backdoorhippie:

As I understand it, the rules specify that the "texture" needs to be applied to the entire image.

Great point, thanks for posting that. I had forgotten about the entire image thing, and had some ideas in mind that would have been only partially applied.

That's the way I understand a texture layer to be used as well ... entirely (no masking, erasing, etc...). Could be wrong. It doesn't say that in the Advanced Editing rules really.
11/03/2015 04:01:48 PM · #25
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:

Originally posted by Lydia:

Does the texture have to go over the entire image? Or some small spots can be masked out?


As stated by Bear_Music in the conversation I linked above, "A texture, basically, would be something of relatively low opacity applied to the entire image."

I'd imagine you can vary the opacity, but not eliminate it entirely, the same way you can't completely black out the details in a window.

Note that while the texture should cover the entire image, and can show markedly different effects in different areas depending on the color and texture of the base image and blending mode used.
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