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10/13/2015 03:43:55 AM · #1
So, I've been a longtime PC user, and am very familiar with pc systems and how to fix them etc (even went so far as to replace the motherboard on my Thinkpad). At this point, I'm looking to replace my current editing machine (said Thinkpad) with something that can... actually handle my editing needs. My current T61P laptop is physically incapable of catching up, being 32 bit only. In short, I'm looking to purchase a desktop (as most of my editing is now done at home compared to in the past where it was out and about), but also something that is portable and can perform general editing with minimal size with some minor gaming, as well. I'm thinking a high end 27" retina imac with an ipad will fit the need. So far as what "high end" means, it means top option other than ram, which I'll install myself. I'll be doing some heavy lifting, some with photos, but mostly with video (4K included).

I have an older mbp in the household in addition to the T61P, so I'm familiar with both systems. I want a simple, one stop system for myself and my girlfriend, that I don't need to build or screw around with. I figure I can get an imac along with an ipad for a reasonable price that includes both powerhouse performance and portability with the tablet. Talk me into or out of this.
10/13/2015 06:16:27 AM · #2
Go for it.
10/13/2015 08:09:34 AM · #3
I very much dislike the product treadmill they put you on, the incessant internal marketing, and how they've engineered many of their systems to work the one way they think is best, making alternative workflows incredibly tedious.

It is "a simple, one-stop system," I suppose -- not unlike an all-inclusive, package vacation -- and hundreds of millions of fans can't all be wrong, but they won't get my money again.
10/13/2015 08:26:07 AM · #4
Go for it 2
10/13/2015 08:27:35 AM · #5
iMac iPad and iPad mini here.
10/13/2015 08:47:09 AM · #6
The mac is good hardware, no question of that. As far as the OS compared to Win10, horse apiece as far as I am concerned. If you price out hardware that will give you equivalent performance to the mac, the price will be lower, but not by that much (I just built such a machine). So it comes down to the question of whether you buy in to the ecosystem. As bohemka stated, it works how they feel it should work. also, flexibility in hardware configuration is limited.

ETA: info on the system I just built in this thread

Message edited by author 2015-10-13 09:16:53.
10/13/2015 01:45:35 PM · #7
Originally posted by bohemka:

I very much dislike the product treadmill they put you on, the incessant internal marketing, and how they've engineered many of their systems to work the one way they think is best, making alternative workflows incredibly tedious.

It is "a simple, one-stop system," I suppose -- not unlike an all-inclusive, package vacation -- and hundreds of millions of fans can't all be wrong, but they won't get my money again.


What were your specific frustrations, if you don't mind?
10/13/2015 01:56:21 PM · #8
Remember that with the newer Macs you can also run Windows or Linux on the same machine if you really need to.
10/13/2015 02:23:38 PM · #9
The portable + minimum size critera sounds like your suggested option is a no-brainer.

I have become a fan of Apple products in the past few years. I was a technician for a while and always dealt with Windows systems - there are a few user interface quirks with Mac OS I'm not crazy about, but I can't stand Windows 8 or 10 at all.
10/13/2015 05:36:44 PM · #10
Good timing since Apple just upgraded all of their 27" iMacs to Retina displays today (I have one). Unles you absolutely need a Skylake processor, and you probably don't, I'd keep an eye out for a refurbished Core i7 at the Apple Store.
10/13/2015 07:06:57 PM · #11
I used to be a windows-only fan, but bought a mac to write iphone apps. I have found the hardware and OS to be extremely stable. Also, by running VMWare, I have a windows virtual machine installed to run a few windows-only applications that I need.

It does seem that peripherals are all more expensive that they should be.

But, they work. Consistently.

Message edited by author 2015-10-13 19:07:20.
10/13/2015 07:30:39 PM · #12
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

Originally posted by bohemka:

I very much dislike the product treadmill they put you on, the incessant internal marketing, and how they've engineered many of their systems to work the one way they think is best, making alternative workflows incredibly tedious.

It is "a simple, one-stop system," I suppose -- not unlike an all-inclusive, package vacation -- and hundreds of millions of fans can't all be wrong, but they won't get my money again.


What were your specific frustrations, if you don't mind?


Actually, his sentiments are mine EXACTLY. And he summed it up better than I've ever been able to. I had a Mac Pro for just under a year (this was more than 4 years ago, I should point out). Lots of nice apps included with the system that do a lot. But if you need more, or don't want to do it their way, then you may be unhappy, as I was. I was very relieved when I finally decided to abandon it and go back to the PC.

Anyway, I tried, and they could not "convert me" to a fan. I do really like their hardware. It's their software that was a problem for me. ..everything is beautiful, clean, and simple. But I found it less flexible in the way you can do things, and at least back then, I couldn't find good third party apps to make it do what I wanted, the way I wanted.

I did buy another Mac -- a Macbook Air II, because of the hardware and battery life. But I find it pretty slow, and I still don't like the OS (for example, it's harder to merge folders).

10/13/2015 10:23:26 PM · #13
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

So, I've been a longtime PC user, and am very familiar with pc systems and how to fix them etc (even went so far as to replace the motherboard on my Thinkpad). At this point, I'm looking to replace my current editing machine (said Thinkpad) with something that can... actually handle my editing needs. My current T61P laptop is physically incapable of catching up, being 32 bit only. In short, I'm looking to purchase a desktop (as most of my editing is now done at home compared to in the past where it was out and about), but also something that is portable and can perform general editing with minimal size with some minor gaming, as well. I'm thinking a high end 27" retina imac with an ipad will fit the need. So far as what "high end" means, it means top option other than ram, which I'll install myself. I'll be doing some heavy lifting, some with photos, but mostly with video (4K included).

I have an older mbp in the household in addition to the T61P, so I'm familiar with both systems. I want a simple, one stop system for myself and my girlfriend, that I don't need to build or screw around with. I figure I can get an imac along with an ipad for a reasonable price that includes both powerhouse performance and portability with the tablet. Talk me into or out of this.


Go for it. You'll never regret it. You'll never look back.
10/13/2015 10:47:06 PM · #14
I've built several windows systems over the decades to optimize power and save money. But the last upgrade was to a prebuilt Core i7 with 16 megabytes ram and 2 megabyte NVidia video card and high resolution 24" monitor . I priced the same capability on Tiger Direct at 50% more. Short story: with Win 7 I'm delighted.
My wife changed to an iMac and I bought a MacBook Pro (with retina) for travel after considering a ThinkPad which seemed bulky and flimsy at that time (2yrs ago). The Mac is frustrating, especially file management and missing Windows hotkeys but the PacPro is excellent even with the familiarity shortcomings. So for the desktop, I don't think abandoning Windows is worth the effort. For the laptop, the MacPro is fine. As you probably know, don't compromise on RAM. Photoshop is a hog.
10/14/2015 01:49:04 AM · #15
Originally posted by Neil:

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

Originally posted by bohemka:

I very much dislike the product treadmill they put you on, the incessant internal marketing, and how they've engineered many of their systems to work the one way they think is best, making alternative workflows incredibly tedious.

It is "a simple, one-stop system," I suppose -- not unlike an all-inclusive, package vacation -- and hundreds of millions of fans can't all be wrong, but they won't get my money again.


What were your specific frustrations, if you don't mind?


Actually, his sentiments are mine EXACTLY. And he summed it up better than I've ever been able to. I had a Mac Pro for just under a year (this was more than 4 years ago, I should point out). Lots of nice apps included with the system that do a lot. But if you need more, or don't want to do it their way, then you may be unhappy, as I was. I was very relieved when I finally decided to abandon it and go back to the PC.

Anyway, I tried, and they could not "convert me" to a fan. I do really like their hardware. It's their software that was a problem for me. ..everything is beautiful, clean, and simple. But I found it less flexible in the way you can do things, and at least back then, I couldn't find good third party apps to make it do what I wanted, the way I wanted.

I did buy another Mac -- a Macbook Air II, because of the hardware and battery life. But I find it pretty slow, and I still don't like the OS (for example, it's harder to merge folders).


So far as how I'd be using it- I'd do an Adobe CC for video/photo dealings, and maybe a game or two. That's about all that's going to be done on it, so most of the dealings would be through something I'm already familiar with (Adobe products). Most other things I'm already utilizing Google for anyway, so platform is somewhat irrelevant. What sorts of software struggles were you having? I'm curious as that's the big unknown for me, as although I've messed with the mbp, it isn't my workhorse so I haven't REALLY delved into it to expose any issues.
10/14/2015 08:07:14 AM · #16
If you get an iMac, do yourself a favor and invest in the Fusion drive. The user experience is so much better.
However, note that they are skimping a bit on the newest models.
10/14/2015 10:05:15 AM · #17
Originally posted by tate:

If you get an iMac, do yourself a favor and invest in the Fusion drive. The user experience is so much better.
However, note that they are skimping a bit on the newest models.


I have one of these hybrid drives on my Dell laptop at work. Frankly, it does help with boot to some degree, but I will take a pure SSD any day. On my recent system build, I went pure SSD (Intel 750 Series 400GB NVMe drive for OS & apps and Mushkin Reactor 1TB SATAIII SSd for data. The NVMe drive will run circles around most anything else; it reads at >1500 MB/s and writes at 975MB/s, and has outrageous IOPS specs. The Mushkin Reactor is of course much slower, but still far beyond rotating hard drive speeds.
Last evening I had a chance to really task the new system with creation of a time lapse from over 1500 Canon 6D MRAW files (about 32GB of input data). The process took a little over an hour start to finish including:
- Importing the 32GB of files from the card to the PC and creating all Lr 1:1 previews
- Processing the 1500+ files in Lr, including perspective correction
- Exporting the 1500+ files to JPEG format @ 1920px width for input to video creation
- Creation and rendering of a video using Ps
As you can see, the above process involves a tremendous amount of reading and writing of data to disk. Based on the performance of this system, I am convinced that my only use for rotating disks going forward will be for data backup.
10/14/2015 10:26:31 AM · #18
Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

Originally posted by Neil:

Originally posted by spiritualspatula:

Originally posted by bohemka:

I very much dislike the product treadmill they put you on, the incessant internal marketing, and how they've engineered many of their systems to work the one way they think is best, making alternative workflows incredibly tedious.

It is "a simple, one-stop system," I suppose -- not unlike an all-inclusive, package vacation -- and hundreds of millions of fans can't all be wrong, but they won't get my money again.


What were your specific frustrations, if you don't mind?


Actually, his sentiments are mine EXACTLY. And he summed it up better than I've ever been able to. I had a Mac Pro for just under a year (this was more than 4 years ago, I should point out). Lots of nice apps included with the system that do a lot. But if you need more, or don't want to do it their way, then you may be unhappy, as I was. I was very relieved when I finally decided to abandon it and go back to the PC.

Anyway, I tried, and they could not "convert me" to a fan. I do really like their hardware. It's their software that was a problem for me. ..everything is beautiful, clean, and simple. But I found it less flexible in the way you can do things, and at least back then, I couldn't find good third party apps to make it do what I wanted, the way I wanted.

I did buy another Mac -- a Macbook Air II, because of the hardware and battery life. But I find it pretty slow, and I still don't like the OS (for example, it's harder to merge folders).


So far as how I'd be using it- I'd do an Adobe CC for video/photo dealings, and maybe a game or two. That's about all that's going to be done on it, so most of the dealings would be through something I'm already familiar with (Adobe products). Most other things I'm already utilizing Google for anyway, so platform is somewhat irrelevant. What sorts of software struggles were you having? I'm curious as that's the big unknown for me, as although I've messed with the mbp, it isn't my workhorse so I haven't REALLY delved into it to expose any issues.


For me, each successive version of OS X felt more insular. Freedom and flexibility was removed -- to provide a "better user experience," they would say -- but to me it eventually felt like being stuck in a car with the childproof windows lock on. System engineering seemed much more focused on building up the walls of their own ecosystem than actually thinking about the things users might want to accomplish. I found myself continuously running into roadblocks for which there was no way around. iLife was shoved down my throat; iPhoto added gimmicky tricks seemingly designed for Facebook addicts and shrink-wrapped my photos in unwieldy catalogs; iTunes transitioned from an enjoyable application to big brother, constantly marketing itself to me on my own machine.

Best story, though, was the day I was unable to stream some media content. I needed to update some plug-in, which required a browser update, which required an OS update, which required a hardware upgrade. A three-and-a-half-year-old, $2,700 machine -- unable to play a YouTube clip.
10/14/2015 11:57:01 AM · #19
Originally posted by bohemka:

Best story, though, was the day I was unable to stream some media content. I needed to update some plug-in, which required a browser update, which required an OS update, which required a hardware upgrade. A three-and-a-half-year-old, $2,700 machine -- unable to play a YouTube clip.


Fair enough, if I had a similar experience I'd be turned off as well. I vaguely remember that corporate pissing match between Apple and whichever company owned Flash at the time.

The front-end might seem simplistic but the more you dig the more you realize it's unix-based, lots of ways to skin a cat using only what it comes with, and there are third party apps, many of them open source, to solve many of the difficulties.

kirbic - sounds like quite a time lapse, do you have it uploaded anywhere yet?
10/14/2015 12:33:04 PM · #20
Agree. New recent 27inch imac here.
I use Adobe CC stuff and Chrome. Iphoto/Photos and iTunes, as you say, are no longer useful or malleable to my liking.
And the Apple cloud stuff is pretty useless to me as well. With Google drive and Smugmug as my other options, I just use Apple to back up my basic phone settings - God forbid if I want to have it back up photos. Nowhere near enough free space to make that an viable option.
At this point the only reason Mac makes sense is familiarity.

Originally posted by bohemka:


For me, each successive version of OS X felt more insular. Freedom and flexibility was removed -- to provide a "better user experience," they would say -- but to me it eventually felt like being stuck in a car with the childproof windows lock on. System engineering seemed much more focused on building up the walls of their own ecosystem than actually thinking about the things users might want to accomplish. I found myself continuously running into roadblocks for which there was no way around. iLife was shoved down my throat; iPhoto added gimmicky tricks seemingly designed for Facebook addicts and shrink-wrapped my photos in unwieldy catalogs; iTunes transitioned from an enjoyable application to big brother, constantly marketing itself to me on my own machine.
10/14/2015 03:51:53 PM · #21
I just upgraded to El Capitan on my Mac, right now as I try and open Mail it crashes every time.

I recently upgraded to Win 10 on my windows machine, every time the system goes into hibernate I have to turn wifi on again when I turn it on.

Nothing's perfect, Apple aren't as shiny reliable as they used to be, Windows is much better than it used to be but still has it's flaws. The reliability of Mac propaganda is an outdated argument.

I run both systems (and a couple of Linux servers to boot), I currently edit on my Mac because it's the more powerful of the two, if my Windows machine was the most powerful I would probably edit on that.

Get whichever you prefer using, ultimately it's not going to make a great deal of difference once you're inside Photoshop as it looks pretty much the same on both.
10/14/2015 08:30:18 PM · #22
I was only a PC since 1980 now a Hybrid user, er I use PC rarely.
I'm mainly using my tiny MacBook Air 11" mid-2012-make, Yosemite O/S. I have built a PC with i7-nehalem extreme processor, was top-of-the-line a few years ago and still is fast.

I have upgraded my HD on this laptop to 490GB using Transcend's SSD. I have about 130 apps, including Adobe CC and Office 365. No I don't use iTunes/iPhotos, "Photo Transfer" app works fantastic on any platform or device. You can add your music as music-videos without the fee. VLC for video Playing is great and Safe, it's not in iTunes store, it's a non-profit project. Oh, I used to have to us "Paragon NTFS for Mac OS X" to use my External Passport HDs with BOTH PC and MAC.

The other upgrade was an adapter from Kanex, "Lightening Bolt" TO USB-3/RJ44 network on the other end. ( This model only came with USB-2 built-in ) Apple does not sell car-adapters, but look on amazon for 3rd party. Apple would rather have you buy an inferior iPad. Adobe has excellent "Paired" apps for doing interesting stuff "On-the-go" like creating brushes from photos.

On amazon "Cable Matters" has 3-way adapters that I use for my 20" and 23" monitors. iMac limits your monitor choice and price. iMac 27" Led are nice, but do not use AdobeRGB, a higher colorspace that can give more leeway in editing. Spend your savings on a Nighthawk WiFi instead. The newer DisplayPort video can handle 4 external monitors at AdobeRGB.

MAC Cons: I can't type in a folder name into the Finder like in HD-Explorer, and in column mode, the folders' widths aren't saved. Also instead of "Delete" it's backspace, instead of "Home/End" it's command + Left/Right Arrows. Pros: I have projected an 8Ft x 20Ft Fireworks video on my Garage door via a DLP. USB-3 Passport Drives are fast. A PC with all SSD is probably fast, too. MACs been doing that for years. PLUS: For any software updates there is NO Rebooting.

I have had 50 Chrome browser tabs in 20 windows and 10 apps open at the same time. And just closing/opening Laptop daily. After a month it gets overwhelmed and reboots.
itself, but all browser windows do reopen and files are not lost. A cold boot is recommended weekly. Don't do O/S upgrades until the 1st or 2nd Upgrade Fixes come out. I use gMail with no problems. I don't intend to do Windows 10 (known to track you, read contract), I use Win 7 Professional.

Get all SSD Drives and as much memory as you can that's where the speed is at... until Graphene Petabyte HD's
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