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02/10/2003 10:55:06 AM · #51
Gordon,

I've asked EZPrints about ICC profiles before. At one point in time they were planning on doing them. Now I'm trying to remember if I have their response to my request here or at home.... Quick search of my e-mails here and it appears the e-mail is at home.

Basically, (and this is from my memory so might be slightly off) they told me something along the lines that they won't do them because they simply can't create the number of profiles that would be needed to support every monitor out there.

This DOES make a great deal of sense. Even if they create an ICC for their printing system, they can't guarantee if you use it that what you see on screen will match what they print. Even if they created an ICC profile for ViewSonic PF790 monitors with their printer, they still can't guarantee that what you see will be what gets printed simply because no two monitors are ever calibrated exactly the same (except maybe by some fluke of nature).

I think the only way you CAN guarantee your colors are EXACTLY reproduced is like you've found -- go to the local print place, pull it up on their monitor (which BETTER be calibrated to their print system) and double check it on their system, making any tweaks necessary.

Or, you get the Spyder system, print their test prints through your print service, and calibrate your system based on their test prints....

Edited in: By the way, I'll try to remember to forward you the e-mail I got from them about the whole thing later tonight.

Message edited by author 2003-02-10 10:55:51.
02/10/2003 11:30:22 AM · #52
I want profiles for their print process and paper. They should not and do not produce monitor profiles. That is what a monitor profile is for.

If you profile your monitor correctly, then you work in a known colour space (typically AdobeRGB). Your monitor profile shows you how much off
you are from that space, so that you are truely working in the AdobeRGB space. The printer/paper profile translates from that known space to the printer/paper space. It only requires at most two profiles from ezprints - one for gloss and one for matte. I've asked them for it before and they were going to provide them but had just moved labs. I was hoping dpchallenge asking might have more weight than a single user.

It is not true that monitors cannot be calibrated the same. Optical calibration units (spyders) do this all the time. A particular standard colour space does not change between monitors. You calibrate a monitor to show the colour space, not the other way around. Once you then have the monitor displaying correctly, all you have to do is to translate to the correct output colour space. I've had near perfect results printing this way on multiple ink jet printers and using local printer services. In none of those cases was the monitor calibrated for the output, it was calibrated for a known colour space that was then translated to the output space, using colour profiles.

While I can understand the problems they face with people using profiles incorrectly or trying to use colour management tools on a non-calibated system (Adobe Gamma doesn't really count), I don't think it should stop them from providing support for people that are going to use them properly. If you take that argument to its logical conclusion, they shouldn't print for anyone as they might have uploaded the wrong file or saved it incorrectly. It would be perfectly resonable to provide plenty of warnings/ disclaimers over incorrect use of profiles - but then still provide them for people who actually want correct output, and not play roulette.

While being from a company trying to sell a product, this intro to colour management is still a good description of the problem/ process/ issues.

Originally posted by Patella:

Gordon,

I've asked EZPrints about ICC profiles before. At one point in time they were planning on doing them. Now I'm trying to remember if I have their response to my request here or at home.... Quick search of my e-mails here and it appears the e-mail is at home.

Basically, (and this is from my memory so might be slightly off) they told me something along the lines that they won't do them because they simply can't create the number of profiles that would be needed to support every monitor out there.

This DOES make a great deal of sense. Even if they create an ICC for their printing system, they can't guarantee if you use it that what you see on screen will match what they print. Even if they created an ICC profile for ViewSonic PF790 monitors with their printer, they still can't guarantee that what you see will be what gets printed simply because no two monitors are ever calibrated exactly the same (except maybe by some fluke of nature).

I think the only way you CAN guarantee your colors are EXACTLY reproduced is like you've found -- go to the local print place, pull it up on their monitor (which BETTER be calibrated to their print system) and double check it on their system, making any tweaks necessary.

Or, you get the Spyder system, print their test prints through your print service, and calibrate your system based on their test prints....

Edited in: By the way, I'll try to remember to forward you the e-mail I got from them about the whole thing later tonight.


Message edited by author 2003-02-10 11:48:46.
02/10/2003 03:55:57 PM · #53
Is the new feature will slow this site to a croll, do you have storage capabilites to handle all that???
02/10/2003 04:33:29 PM · #54
Originally posted by pitsaman:

Is the new feature will slow this site to a croll, do you have storage capabilites to handle all that???

Ye have little faith ;) We're taking performance into highest consideration, and we'll have enough storage to get us moving!

Drew
03/03/2003 03:52:46 PM · #55
It's been nearly a month since this was announced, any updates?
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