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06/12/2015 09:27:58 AM · #1
Maybe I have this in the wrong thread too I don't know, SC please move it if it is in the wrong section.

I have been asked by my sister to shoot for her clients on which she does make-up artistry for weddings, Halloween and other events for her alone, that is her side business.

I have also been asked to do the fashion show shootings on where she works as well which is a cosmetology college. It would be shooting for hair styles, make up and who knows what else for when they do makeup artistry for media makeup classes where they do costumes, wounds, scars, blood and gore kinda of thing and a few other events they do. . At the same time this is soooo over my head and overwhelming to me..but I think it would be so much fun and a great experience.
I was soooo not wanting to get into the portrait kind of thing and to stay out of that area all together.. LOL! It seems its pulling me in no matter what.

If I pursue this it will lead to part-time paid work.. however, if it does, I will look into taking some local college courses for photography as well and start expanding a bit.
Most everything I have learned was here, on sights, websites, facebook groups, tutorials and through friends.

The only two kinda of equipment I own decent enough for these kind of thing is my speedlight and my 28mm prime. All others are set up for my macro shooting, zoom lenses for my wildlife and nature.

The other issues is my editing, I am still in the middle of the basic learning curve of that. I have not told her No and I have not told her yes either. Just a run by kinda of thing to see my interest which it has my interest for now, I just have no clue what I would be getting myself into at the moment. Hence this post.

I really am needing some guidance thoughts on this for an avenue but for me it would be all fun, but at the same time, I don't want to put out crap work photos either and that bothers me a bit. I just wish I had someone close that would come with me and shoot with me so I could be a back up or something. This is way out of my league lol but it is something I could grow into and learn quite well and this will be enough money for me so I can keep my hobby going for new equipment and toys. What I have learned through this is that you really do get what you pay for when it comes to equipment and buying cheap is not an option, unless its good used condition :0-))

Message edited by author 2015-06-12 09:40:52.
06/12/2015 09:39:34 AM · #2
First think I would do is buy lightroom... It will make your editing go much faster. There really isn't a need for you to over edit your photos either. Although they may want that super edited version, do that on your own time to speed things up for your clients.

As far as your equipment, speed lights are okay to start out with. You have to start somewhere right? If you don't already have some get some sort of softbox that will work with your speed lights. Ebay has a ton of cheap ones.

You're 28mm lens is a bit of a stretch but will work for your shots. At least until you can purchase a larger lens. Put in your head that a good quality zoom 70-200mm is a good start but shoot for an 85mm prime and a 105mm prime. Those will give you some AMAZING sharp quality images.

Don't be afraid to google or pinterest studio shots to get ideas for poses. I have printed poses out and taken them with me on shoots before. I don't use it as much as I wanted too but it's good when you get stuck for ideas.

Talk with your clients and get an idea of what they want for shots. Focus on their needs.
example: putting makeup on or the final look of the makeup.

Bounce ideas off us here and even enter some in challenges if it fits.

MAKE SURE YOU HAVE THEM SIGN A MODEL RELEASE BEFORE YOU SHOOT THEM... EACH PERSON
06/12/2015 09:44:56 AM · #3
I do have lightroom 4, I also have Nik collections and photoshop 5 for the editing.

I do own a 70-210 pentax Lens..

The images that I do will be before, during and then the finished look. They have a little area which is set up for walkways or "staging" in an auditorium for that.

As for the model releases, is there a certain form already done or is that something on my own I do?
06/12/2015 09:53:11 AM · #4
save the money of photography courses and buy one or two alien bee strobes and modifiers instead. you can buy some cheap fabric to use as backdrops. get more light so you can shoot stopped down a bit, any lens will be sharp enough at f8 or so. so you will pick up the detail. makeup lighting is all about lighting, so study some examples and replicate it. there are hundreds of lighting setup examples on the internet.

just practice before hand so you can setup your lights properly on location.

lightroom should be all you need, with proper makeup, skin retouching will be minimal if your lighting is good. so color correcting and crop should be the brunt of the effort.

Message edited by author 2015-06-12 09:56:35.
06/12/2015 11:25:56 AM · #5
Practice beforehand. Corral your husband/neighbor/child/pet. Test your lenses before you start freaking out about equipment so you can see what look each will produce. I fear your 28mm is way to wide to get a good, undistorted closeup.

You will need additional lighting. One off camera flash is too basic for "interesting" light. Your practice sessions should also include setting up your lights and placing them properly.

06/12/2015 11:29:04 AM · #6
the 70-200 will be just fine, especially with artificial light.
06/12/2015 11:32:14 AM · #7
Originally posted by jgirl57:

I do have lightroom 4, I also have Nik collections and photoshop 5 for the editing.

I do own a 70-210 pentax Lens..

The images that I do will be before, during and then the finished look. They have a little area which is set up for walkways or "staging" in an auditorium for that.

As for the model releases, is there a certain form already done or is that something on my own I do?


Spend the 100 bucks and upgrade to LR5. it has a ton more features and is much faster.

You can google model releases and put one together depending on your needs but make sure it covers you and your clients for what your doing. In a nut shell you want to take photos of them and use the images for whatever you want. YOU own the images unless you give them rights to them. I can't count the number of times I have seen on here and on FB of peoples images getting stolen and used for another reason. At least this way if you wanted to pursue a claim against someone you stand a better chance.
06/12/2015 11:59:13 AM · #8
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:



In a nut shell you want to take photos of them and use the images for whatever you want. YOU own the images unless you give them rights to them. I can't count the number of times I have seen on here and on FB of peoples images getting stolen and used for another reason. At least this way if you wanted to pursue a claim against someone you stand a better chance.


that's not the purpose of a model release. yes its nit picking but you better be sure of what you need spelled out in the contract if these are for commercial use.

purpose of a model release

06/12/2015 12:25:02 PM · #9
I am pretty sure 80% that they will plan on using those for their own websites, commercials or advertising needs.

They will especially be used for their Facebook pages and also social media that they have.

My sister's stuff will be all 100% used for her facebook and website usages and advertising.

I also have the 35-135 zoom lens as well that is the 1:3 5-4.5 I use that for my every day lenses pretty sure it wasn't meant for that kind of work either but it works great for my every day needs :-))

Message edited by author 2015-06-12 12:27:39.
06/12/2015 01:17:51 PM · #10
Originally posted by jgirl57:

I am pretty sure 80% that they will plan on using those for their own websites, commercials or advertising needs.

You still need to license the images to them, and you'll need a model release for you to use the photos yourself. If you don't license the images the other party will have a case for them to be "work for hire" and they will own the images (and copyright to them) -- don't let that happen.
06/12/2015 01:36:51 PM · #11
Please cite your source.
06/12/2015 01:40:20 PM · #12
Originally posted by Mike:

Please cite your source.

For what and by whom?
06/12/2015 02:18:53 PM · #13
Originally posted by tanguera:

Practice beforehand. Corral your husband/neighbor/child/pet. Test your lenses before you start freaking out about equipment so you can see what look each will produce. I fear your 28mm is way to wide to get a good, undistorted closeup.

You will need additional lighting. One off camera flash is too basic for "interesting" light. Your practice sessions should also include setting up your lights and placing them properly.


That is something I have no clue about and I will have to learn.

I have found the strobist lighting blog which I found very informative and very easy to learn off from. I will have do more research for other good sources as well.
strobist
06/12/2015 02:55:28 PM · #14
Strobist is a great resource, 'nuf said.
I agree that the 28mm might be a leeeetle short in focal length, but not really all that short. It compares to 42mm on FF. Ideally for this kind of work you'd want to be at or above 50mm. Longer FL, more flattering to the subject, but also needs more room to work, and DoF will be smaller, which can either be an advantage or disadvantage.
06/12/2015 03:58:49 PM · #15
If you want to get good lighting, but are afraid to take the plunge into strobes, but or or 2 more cheap speed lights. Yongnuos are inexpensive and perfectly fine options. The do a search on soft boxes for speed lights. I used some large and small soft boxes with speed lights for a couple of years and they worked quite nicely. I've gone strobes now, and highly recommend the alienbees. excellent stuff.
06/12/2015 05:02:27 PM · #16
hitting the highlights, summarizing what others have posted

* model releases. first, get this book: Bert Krages Legal Handbook for Photographers. it has just about everything you need. great starting point.

* lighting, part 1. start with strobist

* lighting, part 2. move on to Alien B's

* gear. this is tricky. it can easily become a money pit if you don't manage yourself. first, get your sister to show you examples of exactly what she wants you to do. then post some of those here and we can help you reverse engineer the images, letting you know just how little equipment you need to duplicate the shots.

* practice. practice. practice. practice. practice. practice. practice. practice. practice.

lastly, don't worry about the money side of things. in fact, i would advise against taking any money until you feel that you can consistently produce the images that your sister wants. if you're lucky, that will come sooner than later. in the mean time, by keeping money off the table, you can focus on what you need to do in order to fairly earn what you deserve.

good luck!
06/12/2015 05:27:50 PM · #17
Originally posted by Mike:

Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:



In a nut shell you want to take photos of them and use the images for whatever you want. YOU own the images unless you give them rights to them. I can't count the number of times I have seen on here and on FB of peoples images getting stolen and used for another reason. At least this way if you wanted to pursue a claim against someone you stand a better chance.


that's not the purpose of a model release. yes its nit picking but you better be sure of what you need spelled out in the contract if these are for commercial use.

purpose of a model release


that's the same thing I was saying... hence the "In a nut shell"
06/12/2015 05:30:51 PM · #18
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by jgirl57:

I am pretty sure 80% that they will plan on using those for their own websites, commercials or advertising needs.

You still need to license the images to them, and you'll need a model release for you to use the photos yourself. If you don't license the images the other party will have a case for them to be "work for hire" and they will own the images (and copyright to them) -- don't let that happen.


Spot on information... Couldn't have said it any better.... well I guess I could give you link or two but that would be WAY too easy.
06/12/2015 07:21:25 PM · #19
Originally posted by Dirt_Diver:

Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by jgirl57:

I am pretty sure 80% that they will plan on using those for their own websites, commercials or advertising needs.

You still need to license the images to them, and you'll need a model release for you to use the photos yourself. If you don't license the images the other party will have a case for them to be "work for hire" and they will own the images (and copyright to them) -- don't let that happen.


Spot on information... Couldn't have said it any better.... well I guess I could give you link or two but that would be WAY too easy.

US Code, Title 17, Chapter 2, ยง201 (b) "Works made for hire"
06/16/2015 01:45:55 PM · #20
Good to know thanks everyone..

As for the alienbees strobes I looked on Amazon and got pretty overwhelmed with the selection as well as the one that Skip linked to me.. I have no clue what I am looking at or what I even need.., is there one that's better than the other, what specifications should I be looking for when it comes to those? Prices seem much more reasonable than what I was thinking they were going to be :-)) What else do I need for them to work with my Pentax?

I do like the idea of no money until I get it perfected, it brings down a lot of un-needed stress at the moment too LOL

Ok, as for examples, this is more or less what I will be doing for the college when it comes to their media Make up classes.. Right now they are just free shooting off from cell phones in the classroom, but I would have my black backdrop when I go there..my sister wants more of a professional kinda of shooting when they are done..



I pulled these off of from my sisters FB page which is public, all of these were cell phone photos..

For my sister, I will be doing much more closer up close make up shots.. especially with the eyelashes and make up and bridal make up for her clients..that is more on the higher class kinda shooting and no clue how to achieve something like this:

(these were taken off from google as prime examples of what I would be doing)


Hope this gives an idea of what I will be shooting..

Message edited by author 2015-06-16 14:18:17.
06/16/2015 02:45:35 PM · #21
alien bees you can only get from Paul C Duff. for the price they are very good entry level studio strobes plus they have great customer support if you ever have any problems, the downsides if that all their stuff is propriety so you have to buy modifiers from them.

a strobe has a modeling lamp which will light your subject and you can use it help see how the light will fall on the subject. the different levels of strobes have different power outputs. depending on your use you may require a lot of power or very little.

on top of strobes you need to decide what kind of modifier you want, umbrella, soft boxes.

you can trigger them via a radio trigger or a hard wire connection. your camera should have PC sync port that you should be able to plug into, and radio trigger will sit in the hot shoe.

sooo...

if you go with the alien bees:

i'd recommend the ab400 or the ab800 any more is way too much power for what you need and get a PLM umbrella with a softbox cover (cheaper than a soft box) or a large white shoot through umbrella.

you dont have to get the stands from them, stands are universal, just get something that is sturdy since a strobe with a big softbox or umbrella can topple easily.
06/16/2015 04:33:52 PM · #22
Originally posted by jgirl57:

I have no clue what I am looking at or what I even need.., is there one that's better than the other, what specifications should I be looking for when it comes to those? Prices seem much more reasonable than what I was thinking they were going to be :-)) What else do I need for them to work with my Pentax?


Joey L did a nice video comparing high end portable flash kits (Buff's Enisteins, ProPhoto's B1 and Broncolor Move) which all are way over my budget, but the video is worth the time to see what is what in the lighting you wish you could afford. Watch this and the various claims on Amazon will make a bit more sense.

If you want to figure out the lighting for a particular shot, zoom in on the eyes. The reflection will tell you the lighting setup at least the part in front of the model. The first image is done with a single beauty dish to get that dark shadow under her chin, and a fill light to get that Background white white white.

Your minimum kit should be 2 or 3 lights that have the same color, a remote trigger to trigger the shutter while you are not behind the camera, and a Transceiver to trigger your flashes.

You can go the strobist route with one decent flash and 2 cheap slaves, all of which are off camera. Or go with real Flash kits.

I'm having trouble finding a Pentax trigger remote, but I use a cheap Vivitar that has been rock solid for years.

You can use get cheap Cowboy studio Hotshoe triggers or get the real thing and pony up for Pocketwizards

When everything goes right, light is light. It doesn't matter how much money you spend, it looks the same. What the money buys you is dependability. If I had a kick ass Borncolor system I am sure I could set my lights and go. With my cheap system setup takes much longer, adjustments are done my stepping up or down flash strength on the flash heads (which sometimes involves getting them off the stand and removing umbrellas ect) instead of remote control adjustments or easy access to the back of the flash pack. My cheap cowboystudio flash trigger mostly work, but I will lose a few frames now and then.

In short being cheap costs you time, and when you are shooting someone who is paying you, you look bad when your stuff causes you to lose frames and waste their time. But if you figure out a plan, know the space you will be shooting in and set it up ahead of time and test strength and distances of your lights to get the effects you want, write it all down and use post its on the flashes to get it in place smoothly, it will work. Most of the time.
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