| Author | Thread |
|
|
05/18/2015 03:34:37 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
When scoring art, numbers are necessarily emotional signifiers and not units of measure, because there is nothing to measure, no criteria have been defined.
To end this confusion once and for all, we simply need to replace numbers with other signifiers.
1 shall be a chicken
2 shall be a moss-covered rock
3 shall be an ocean wave reflecting moonlight
4 shall be moosen
5 shall be a traffic light, auburn in all directions
6 shall be planetary motion as described by Ptolemy
7 shall be a turnstile in an abandoned underground railway
8 shall be a mother's cough
9 shall be a skyscraper
10 shall be a flattened aluminum can
I can provide simple schematic illustrations of all of the above signifiers, which voters can click on. "Averages" will consist of amalgams of these images, for example if one person votes "chicken" and another votes "moosen", the "average" vote will be a chicken with many large antlers. Any combinations of the above, in any proportion, can be calculate and drawn. The resulting picture is your score.
This should resolve any concerns about precision or, more importantly, accuracy. |
I'm going to need illustrations before I can fully buy in on this. |
|
|
|
05/18/2015 05:24:31 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by GeneralE:
If we all spent as much time voting as complaining about thoughtfully (and endlessly) discussing voting the number of complaints comments about voting would be markedly reduced. |
Yes! Based on that point, I think the next time someone is going to take 5 minutes to compose a post complaining about voting they should instead spend the 5 minutes making comments on photos.
(less negativity about voting) + (more comments on photos) = (happier participants + increased participation) |
|
|
|
05/18/2015 10:59:50 PM · #28 |
I would LOVE to see a hundred-point voting system!
That would be wonderful! SOoooo much more to say about an image!
|
|
|
|
05/19/2015 09:15:30 AM · #29 |
Ideas do not equal complaints
If you want to shoot down ideas, fine. But don't simply label ideas as complaints.
BTW I have voted on 100% of all active challenges.
Originally posted by DJWoodward:
Originally posted by GeneralE:
If we all spent as much time voting as complaining about thoughtfully (and endlessly) discussing voting the number of complaints comments about voting would be markedly reduced. |
Yes! Based on that point, I think the next time someone is going to take 5 minutes to compose a post complaining about voting they should instead spend the 5 minutes making comments on photos.
(less negativity about voting) + (more comments on photos) = (happier participants + increased participation) |
Message edited by author 2015-05-19 09:16:12. |
|
|
|
05/19/2015 09:31:33 AM · #30 |
Originally posted by tate:
Ideas do not equal complaints
If you want to shoot down ideas, fine. But don't simply label ideas as complaints. |
This thread is in Rant, the OP wants his version of "How it oughta be" implemented, and as usual, someone throws in how that's impossible because "his/her" system makes more sense.
The "We oughta vote this way." threads are pretty redundant.
Here are some thoughts....
You think we need more comments? Go make more comments.
You think voting needs tightened up? Tighten up your voting.
Be the example, and let the rest that you have no control over go. Relax & enjoy.....this is supposed to be fun.
Message edited by author 2015-05-19 09:31:52.
|
|
|
|
05/19/2015 10:07:35 AM · #31 |
Some think it is a rant. Some don't.
Maybe people don't want to change anything about voting. I get it. Fine.
But if you don't have anything constructive to say, ignore it.
I remember reading a thread about changing image size to 1000 ...
people slammed it quite a bit ... A short time later, the max image size became 1200 and people praised Langdon like he was the 2nd-coming.
For those that don't want to read about these ideas:
 |
|
|
|
05/19/2015 10:18:49 AM · #32 |
There are always going to be people vocalizing their ideas. I believe it is healthy. No one said "DPC sucks, this is what needs to change or I'm out of here". That would bother me for obvious reasons.
Frankly, I have more of a problem with people slamming ideas than those submitting them. The last thing you want to do is have an attitude that stagnates ideas and growth. Yup, it is supposed to be fun, but part of the fun is considering what could make the site better. So even if you don't like the idea, don't try to re-label it as complaining.
I like DPC. Voting is down. Maybe it is because there are more challenges now. But maybe there are ways to bring it back up.
Message edited by author 2015-05-19 12:54:42. |
|
|
|
05/19/2015 11:28:06 AM · #33 |
Originally posted by tate:
I like DPC. Voting is down. Maybe it is because there are more challenges now. But maybe there are ways to bring it back up. |
I like DPC also, but not as much as I used to. I have a few hundred thousand votes under my belt and truth be told, I have not voted on any challenges in over a year now... I just don't care as much as I once did.
It may come as quite a shock to some, but there are things other than DPC that occupy our time and we have to deal with those also.
Some might consider what is being advanced as being progressive and the panacea that will draw the attention of newcomers, but to some of us, a lot of the proposals have been made before and some were of little value when they were first proposed.
Ray
Message edited by author 2015-05-19 11:28:47. |
|
|
|
05/19/2015 12:36:57 PM · #34 |
Originally posted by tate:
Frankly, I have more of a problem with people slamming ideas then those submitting them. The last thing you want to do is have an attitude that stagnates ideas and growth. |
Unfortunately there is a fine line between an idea and a complaint and an equally fine line between constructive feedback and a slam. The subtle differences are often hard to discern in an internet forum.
Not necessarily in this post, but there have been some, where an idea has been brought up for the 1000th time and we rush too soon to judgment. But often the poster hasn't taken the time to look for any of the other 999 posts on the subject first. If someone has a new creative idea then post-away and let's discuss it objectively
The voting discussions that are lease fruitful are the ones when objective evidence isn't considered. Posts where the stats don't meet a person's sensibilities. These inevitably end up with comments like "I never vote less than a 3 and you're a troll if you do" or "I think the average of a DPC photo should be at least a 7" or "The 1-10 system isn't fair"
Could it be better, perhaps. Is it broken or unfair, I don't think so. |
|
|
|
05/19/2015 01:02:52 PM · #35 |
No one has posted a link to the thread where this exact topic was was discussed previously. So to say it is "yet another complaint" might be more valid with a reference.
I'm pretty much done here. Cuz like Ray says, we have sh!t to do ;) I think my lack of activity for months on end here is reflective of my agreement with that.
But the OP was pondering the idea of scoring a wider spectrum, right? How would that not be beneficial to thoughtful voting methods like this  ? |
|
|
|
05/19/2015 01:25:10 PM · #36 |
how does one differentiate between a 55 and a 56? or a what about and 10 or 11?
that huge of a scale to me is pointless. its pretty easy to tell right now if your image was great, good, meh or bad. |
|
|
|
05/19/2015 01:41:37 PM · #37 |
I agree when simply looking at final scores. But I think what the original post was getting at is that each/many/some of us probably gives 20% of the images a score of 6, for example; And it would be nice to be able to sort these in preference from 5.51 - 6.49 ... I could see how it could seem trivial but it might make voting more fun. I think it is an alternative to those who say they use 1-10 when voting in every challenge. Just a different idea.
OK I'm done =)
Originally posted by Mike:
its pretty easy to tell right now if your image was great, good, meh or bad. |
Message edited by author 2015-05-19 13:42:13. |
|
|
|
05/19/2015 04:21:55 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by tate:
I could see how it could seem trivial but it might make voting more fun. I think it is an alternative to those who say they use 1-10 when voting in every challenge. Just a different idea.
|
I'd vote less if this was implemented. I'm sure i'm not alone. |
|
|
|
05/19/2015 04:49:45 PM · #39 |
I didn't read all of the responses, or in fact most of the responses. So this may have been said.
It's an interesting idea, and I can see the appeal of having sub votes to differentiate entries in the voter's eyes.
But I don't like it because I feel like it would slow voting down artificially (spending time on he vote rather than the image).
* "Did I vote that other image a 5.3 or a 5.4? I don't remember, now I need to look."
* The keyboard voting would be gone (this is reason enough not to do it in my mind).
|
|
|
|
05/19/2015 06:04:55 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by tate:
How would that not be beneficial to thoughtful voting methods like this ? |
Just for the record, this experiment failed miserably for me. The averaging of multiple categories tended to have an overall centralization of my votes. I found myself scoring between 4 and 6 most of the time because any high category would balance out any low category or vice versa. For example, I could almost never score a good picture an 8 because it would take a high score in every category to do it.
So yes, a 100 point score would prevent the rounding at the end of the process but all of the votes would still be squished to the center of the scale.
It was worth a try though
To your other point. I did say we "rush too soon"to judgment. I wasn't defending that practice. I don't really think the OP posted "yet another complaint". I've just grown to become one of the more vocal defenders of the current practice because I truly believe it is simple, proven and fair.
One last point about the 1-100 range. Have you noticed how rare a tied vote is? It does happen but it's pretty uncommon. That's another indicator that we don't really need more differentiation in the voting scale. Although you may give 20 images a 6 doesn't mean that those 20 images will average 6.000.
As I said at the beginning of this thread. The 1-100 thought is intriguing because I like differentiation and I use the full scale now. However, with the low return for the investment to change all of the code I think there must be other site improvements to focus on. Just my humble opinion
|
|
|
|
06/03/2015 09:31:50 AM · #41 |
Originally posted by Mike:
the top pics win in any case, does middle placement even matter? |
DPL |
|
|
|
06/03/2015 10:09:54 AM · #42 |
There is a chance your proposal is good. There is also a chance it is not good at all.
But one thing is certain. For every proposal there are those who dislike change and will shout you down before considering it. They wouldn't do it to your face, but feel they can be "blunt" because it is the internet.
I think change, in this instance, is a good thing- but preservation of all the old votes and challenges, as well as continuity and perceived integrity will insure that nothing about voting or the scoring system will change lightly. |
|
|
|
06/03/2015 11:15:32 AM · #43 |
What about a slide-able scale with a theoretical "infinite" number of options... base it from 1 to 10 but have the slider to vote with capable of sliding close to a number giving it for example a 5.9xxx... that way if you'd like to say with whole numbers you can but if you want you can make images have its own real score you think it deserves?
There have been times that I see a clear winner between two images but don't think that they deserve a different score because I think they both deserve a 10... With this idea I can put a 10 for my winner of the two while giving the other image let's say a 9.8....
Does this make sense? |
|
|
|
06/03/2015 11:17:59 AM · #44 |
Originally posted by giantmike:
* The keyboard voting would be gone (this is reason enough not to do it in my mind). |
With my idea a simple left and right key would be used... |
|
|
|
06/03/2015 11:24:47 AM · #45 |
Let's have only one number we can vote: 5. That would be completely fair. :)
No really let's keep it just as it is. I spent a couple of years on a photo competition site where the admin listened to all the users, esp. the higher ranking ones. He changed the server, voting methods, etc., seemingly on a monthly basis some times. It was KAOS!
I wouldn't mind seeing some new blood and new ways to present things in here. And some of the recent changes, like top 5, I like. But keep the basic voting the same please. Of course I'm no longer active so it really doesn't matter. :) |
|
|
|
06/03/2015 01:04:51 PM · #46 |
how about just add a thumbs up? the image with the most thumbs up wins. like facebook.
or maybe we can do up and downvotes like Reddit, maybe even implement gold.
really just leave it, how many different ways do you need to vote for mediocre?
|
|
|
|
06/03/2015 01:18:26 PM · #47 |
I like it, with a variation.
The one idea I mentioned previously is to keep the set-up the same as-is. But THEN, AFTER you have voted on a set percentage of images (say 90% for example just incase you have some images you can not vote on for some reason), you would be able to tweak your whole number votes to have decimals if you want.
This way, voting will remain the same but you will have the added benefit of prioritizing your collection of votes and distinguishing between images that would have scored the same whole number. This would be an Easter egg type of reward for voters who reach the given threshold. It wouldn't change the initial voting process but could make voting a bit more fun.
Originally posted by mbrutus2009:
What about a slide-able scale with a theoretical "infinite" number of options... base it from 1 to 10 but have the slider to vote with capable of sliding close to a number giving it for example a 5.9xxx... that way if you'd like to say with whole numbers you can but if you want you can make images have its own real score you think it deserves?
There have been times that I see a clear winner between two images but don't think that they deserve a different score because I think they both deserve a 10... With this idea I can put a 10 for my winner of the two while giving the other image let's say a 9.8....
Does this make sense? |
|
|
|
|
06/03/2015 01:19:14 PM · #48 |
5.52
Originally posted by Mike:
really just leave it, how many different ways do you need to vote for mediocre? |
|
|
Home -
Challenges -
Community -
League -
Photos -
Cameras -
Lenses -
Learn -
Prints! -
Help -
Terms of Use -
Privacy -
Top ^
DPChallenge, and website content and design, Copyright © 2001-2024 Challenging Technologies, LLC.
All digital photo copyrights belong to the photographers and may not be used without permission.
Current Server Time: 04/18/2024 08:15:39 PM EDT.
