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 02/08/2016 11:55:42 PM · #51
Originally posted by jagar:
most people know who's photos are who's.

I don't believe that's true. SOME of the players are very recognizable to MANY participants, but most are not, I don't think.

Originally posted by jagar:
I see photos here that could easily be exposed in a fine art gallery getting terrible scores and photos winning that would be considered plastic trach in any respectable gallery anywhere.

But many of those images you are disparaging would catch the attention of many, many individuals engaged in the business of buying photography commercially. There's more than one criterion for "good", John; and we DO have an active "underground" busily giving awards to the art shots that don't score well. It seems to me we've actually stumbled into a reasonably balanced median point :-)
 02/09/2016 02:02:31 AM · #52
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by jagar:
most people know who's photos are who's.

I don't believe that's true. SOME of the players are very recognizable to MANY participants, but most are not, I don't think.

Originally posted by jagar:
I see photos here that could easily be exposed in a fine art gallery getting terrible scores and photos winning that would be considered plastic trach in any respectable gallery anywhere.

But many of those images you are disparaging would catch the attention of many, many individuals engaged in the business of buying photography commercially. There's more than one criterion for "good", John; and we DO have an active "underground" busily giving awards to the art shots that don't score well. It seems to me we've actually stumbled into a reasonably balanced median point :-)


Yes, good is relative.
 02/09/2016 08:55:31 AM · #53
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Then we get a FS winner like the current Magpie Ninja shot that just blows the competition away: No 1's, no 2's, no 3's, no 4's, and only three 5's... Just a stellar image, appreciated as better-than-average even by the folks who prefer other types of work than the sharp-nature genre :-)

and a rain winner who gets a DPC blue and a posthumous blue.

Hey, YEAH! Didn't even notice that. Awesome.


I don't know you guys were talking about my rain picture. Funny to read this 1 year later.

02/09/2016 08:59:26 AM · #54
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by jagar:
most people know who's photos are who's.

I don't believe that's true. SOME of the players are very recognizable to MANY participants, but most are not, I don't think.

Originally posted by jagar:
I see photos here that could easily be exposed in a fine art gallery getting terrible scores and photos winning that would be considered plastic trach in any respectable gallery anywhere.

But many of those images you are disparaging would catch the attention of many, many individuals engaged in the business of buying photography commercially. There's more than one criterion for "good", John; and we DO have an active "underground" busily giving awards to the art shots that don't score well. It seems to me we've actually stumbled into a reasonably balanced median point :-)


Case in point, a shot I did for the Ansel Adams challenge didn't make the front page but it caught the eye of a retailer buyer on Flickr and while it didn't get me a ribbon it paid for an IR conversion on my D800. Go figure.
 02/09/2016 11:21:44 AM · #55
I've been sporadically around DPC for a long time; 12 years. I wonder if the tension between "good scores" and "good photography" suggested in the OP is just a misinterpretation of the term good photography? Most of the high-scoring photographs that some of us are indifferent to are indeed good photography. Many are superb photography, from the point of view of a digital photography enthusiast. That's why they score so well. The DPC community is largely composed of digital photography enthusiasts, or perhaps even more accurately, digital camera enthusiasts. Just because a photograph widely celebrated at DPC isn't intellectually interesting, is unashamedly derivative, and treads a tiresome and unambitious path conceptually, doesn't mean it's bad photography. It simply means that it has no artistic legitimacy. Photography can be a craft, and appreciated for its craftsmanship. Photography can also be an art, and appreciated according to different lights entirely. You can have one without the other, and usually, you do.
 02/09/2016 11:34:31 AM · #56
Originally posted by ubique:
I've been sporadically around DPC for a long time; 12 years. I wonder if the tension between "good scores" and "good photography" suggested in the OP is just a misinterpretation of the term good photography? Most of the high-scoring photographs that some of us are indifferent to are indeed good photography. Many are superb photography, from the point of view of a digital photography enthusiast. That's why they score so well. The DPC community is largely composed of digital photography enthusiasts, or perhaps even more accurately, digital camera enthusiasts. Just because a photograph widely celebrated at DPC isn't intellectually interesting, is unashamedly derivative, and treads a tiresome and unambitious path conceptually, doesn't mean it's bad photography. It simply means that it has no artistic legitimacy. Photography can be a craft, and appreciated for its craftsmanship. Photography can also be an art, and appreciated according to different lights entirely. You can have one without the other, and usually, you do.


Yes. Exactly. And I would add to that that everyone has their individual goal for photography - from the basics of learning how to create an image, to pushing the boundaries of digital imagery; from hobbyist to earning a living with our camera. People on either end of this spectrum may have a hard time appreciating representations at either extreme. Add to that personal tastes and professional goals, and you have a very wide range of photos. I think it is our responsibility to be true to our own vision by being respectful of a style we may not personally enjoy or aspire to.

Message edited by author 2016-02-09 12:01:21.
 02/09/2016 12:31:07 PM · #57
Originally posted by ubique:
Just because a photograph widely celebrated at DPC isn't intellectually interesting, is unashamedly derivative, and treads a tiresome and unambitious path conceptually, doesn't mean it's bad photography. It simply means that it has no artistic legitimacy.

I have a hard time with the term "legitimacy" in this context. Someone who has never seen (much less shot) a scene which has been "done to death" by others should be able to have their effort deemed "legitimate" -- just because you are bored with or see no "meaning" in a particular image shouldn't deprive it of "legitimacy", as if there was an arbitrary objective standard for that ...
 02/09/2016 12:42:32 PM · #58
Originally posted by GeneralE:
Originally posted by ubique:
Just because a photograph widely celebrated at DPC isn't intellectually interesting, is unashamedly derivative, and treads a tiresome and unambitious path conceptually, doesn't mean it's bad photography. It simply means that it has no artistic legitimacy.

I have a hard time with the term "legitimacy" in this context. Someone who has never seen (much less shot) a scene which has been "done to death" by others should be able to have their effort deemed "legitimate" -- just because you are bored with or see no "meaning" in a particular image shouldn't deprive it of "legitimacy", as if there was an arbitrary objective standard for that ...


In visual arts ordinary is ordinary. The photographers intention doesn't really matter.
 02/09/2016 12:51:15 PM · #59
Someone better define "artistic legitimacy" then, as something other than someone's/some group's subjective opinion of what they "like" ...
 02/09/2016 01:18:13 PM · #60
Is it the difference between 'depiction' and 'interpretation'?
 02/09/2016 01:30:18 PM · #61
Artistic legitimacy seems to be of the most concern to those who suspect they haven't got it. Those who do have artistic legitimacy are usually dead & don't care.
 02/09/2016 01:54:40 PM · #62
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Artistic legitimacy seems to be of the most concern to those who suspect they haven't got it. Those who do have artistic legitimacy are usually dead & don't care.


LOL!!!
 02/09/2016 03:10:29 PM · #63
Originally posted by pixelpig:
Artistic legitimacy seems to be of the most concern to those who suspect they haven't got it. Those who do have artistic legitimacy are usually dead & don't care.

The Decomposing Composers
 02/09/2016 03:26:20 PM · #64
Ah, the British sense of humor. Dry. Very dry.
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