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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Announcements >> March 2015 Free Study Results Recalculated
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04/11/2015 03:22:39 PM · #1
The results of the 'March 2015' challenge have been recalculated due to the disqualification of the former 2nd and 3rd place images.

The second place DQ was for failure to provide an original. The third place DQ was due to the image being taken prior to the start of the challenge (due to being shot in another time zone just hours before rollover according to server time).

Congratulations to our new ribbon winners and honorable mentions!
04/11/2015 03:47:11 PM · #2
Wow. I don't think this happens very often. It's always sad to see some nice images going away (from the top), but we got some nice aurora's back!
04/11/2015 09:12:22 PM · #3
So my camera has to be set to my time zone, as it was, image taken 00:19, 1 of March.
So what the hell is that rule for if it's the server time that counts?
Yes I'm rather frustrated.
04/11/2015 09:41:29 PM · #4
Originally posted by HalldorIngi:

. . .
So what the hell is that rule for if it's the server time that counts?
Yes I'm rather frustrated.


I'm really sorry about the DQ and I'm sure everyone is. But logic tells me that it is the server time that MUST determine both the start and the ending time of any challenge. This was a Free Study so any image goes and it's harder to see here. But in a normal challenge, if you took the perfect shot before the challenge was even announced, that would not be in the spirit of the challenges here - it would just be a darned lucky coincidence. Many times I've read in "current challenge" threads someone lamenting the fact that they took the perfect shot the day before when they were on vacation.
04/11/2015 09:53:11 PM · #5
So was his photo never eligible for any Free Study? If he took it early on March 1 he couldn't have entered it in February (not when Free Studies are titled according to the month). I think this is a very harsh application of this rule.
04/11/2015 10:14:12 PM · #6
Originally posted by jomari:

So was his photo never eligible for any Free Study? If he took it early on March 1 he couldn't have entered it in February (not when Free Studies are titled according to the month). I think this is a very harsh application of this rule.
. I've wondered about that sometimes bc the new month starts 12 hrs earlier here than in LA.



Message edited by author 2015-04-12 05:43:10.
04/12/2015 01:54:30 AM · #7
Originally posted by jomari:

So was his photo never eligible for any Free Study? If he took it early on March 1 he couldn't have entered it in February (not when Free Studies are titled according to the month). I think this is a very harsh application of this rule.


Not correct, he would still have had a few hours to enter it into the February Free Study. If he had, it would have been perfectly valid. Therein lies the problem. If it was valid for February (and it was), how could it be valid for March? They are by definition mutually exclusive.

I certainly feel for the photographer though, I think it is an understandable 'error'. I don't think it is a harsh interpretation of the rule though, it's just a neutral application of the rule; but I agree the rule has a harsh outcome in this particular scenario. The fact that the rule has a 'no exceptions' clause gives us no flexibility (whatsoever), even if we would like to use discretion in some cases.
04/12/2015 02:06:43 AM · #8
Originally posted by Paul:

Originally posted by jomari:

So was his photo never eligible for any Free Study? If he took it early on March 1 he couldn't have entered it in February (not when Free Studies are titled according to the month). I think this is a very harsh application of this rule.


Not correct, he would still have had a few hours to enter it into the February Free Study. If he had, it would have been perfectly valid. Therein lies the problem. If it was valid for February (and it was), how could it be valid for March? They are by definition mutually exclusive.

I certainly feel for the photographer though, I think it is an understandable 'error'. I don't think it is a harsh interpretation of the rule though, it's just a neutral application of the rule; but I agree the rule has a harsh outcome in this particular scenario. The fact that the rule has a 'no exceptions' clause gives us no flexibility (whatsoever), even if we would like to use discretion in some cases.


My apologies for using the term harsh application, your term of harsh outcome is more appropriate.
04/12/2015 03:34:50 AM · #9
Originally posted by HalldorIngi:

So my camera has to be set to my time zone, as it was, image taken 00:19, 1 of March.
So what the hell is that rule for if it's the server time that counts?
Yes I'm rather frustrated.


Now, I'm somewhat confused. Just reread some posts in this thread. Submission deadline is not the problem (always server time), but should the photo be made before midnight local time or before midnight server time?
04/12/2015 04:30:30 AM · #10
Originally posted by hajeka:

Originally posted by HalldorIngi:

So my camera has to be set to my time zone, as it was, image taken 00:19, 1 of March.
So what the hell is that rule for if it's the server time that counts?
Yes I'm rather frustrated.


Now, I'm somewhat confused. Just reread some posts in this thread. Submission deadline is not the problem (always server time), but should the photo be made before midnight local time or before midnight server time?


Good question. So, to try to explain all this. My camera is set to local UK time. Means I'm 5 hours ahead of EDT time: when it's midnight there, it is already 5am here. Does this mean that any picture I take between midnight and 5am (UK time) on the first day of a new month, should count for the previous month? It's quite confusing.
04/12/2015 05:16:05 AM · #11
Originally posted by Kroburg:

Originally posted by hajeka:

Originally posted by HalldorIngi:

So my camera has to be set to my time zone, as it was, image taken 00:19, 1 of March.
So what the hell is that rule for if it's the server time that counts?
Yes I'm rather frustrated.


Now, I'm somewhat confused. Just reread some posts in this thread. Submission deadline is not the problem (always server time), but should the photo be made before midnight local time or before midnight server time?


Good question. So, to try to explain all this. My camera is set to local UK time. Means I'm 5 hours ahead of EDT time: when it's midnight there, it is already 5am here. Does this mean that any picture I take between midnight and 5am (UK time) on the first day of a new month, should count for the previous month? It's quite confusing.


Correct. You would need to enter it into the FS that is open at the time you shot the picture. When you are within hours of deadlines care is certainly needed.
04/12/2015 10:29:38 AM · #12
I guess a good practice might be to check the site before you go out for a shoot, and look at how many days/hours a given challenge will be open for, then make a note of what local time the cutoff is.

For me it's easy, local time plus one hour on Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and the last day of the month. But I can see how other time zones confuse things.
04/12/2015 11:37:39 AM · #13
Originally posted by MadMan2k:

I guess a good practice might be to check the site before you go out for a shoot, and look at how many days/hours a given challenge will be open for, then make a note of what local time the cutoff is.

For me it's easy, local time plus one hour on Sunday, Tuesday, Thursday and the last day of the month. But I can see how other time zones confuse things.


That is the most sensible way to figure it out when shooting near rollover. Especially when traveling. It gets super confusing then, more so when many time zones are involved.
04/13/2015 12:31:12 AM · #14
Sorry, this is absolutely incorrect if he shot this at his local time on March 1st. People in other timezones shoot up until the last minute before deadline, technically a day after the challenge deadline according to server time. If his exif data says March 1 then I cannot see how this can be ruled a DQ.

Edit: You can't have two separate sets of rules for normal challenges vs. free studies. Horrible DQ.

Message edited by author 2015-04-13 00:34:34.
04/13/2015 12:41:46 AM · #15
Originally posted by bohemka:

. . .

Edit: You can't have two separate sets of rules for normal challenges vs. free studies.. . .


For me what's being said is precisely the opposite. There are NOT two separate sets of rules for normal challenges vs free studies. If you happen to take take a shot before a "normal" challenge is announced which ends up being perfect for that challenge, it is not valid. Roll-over, whether for a "normal" challenge or for a FS, marks the time at which the challenge begins. If you submit a photo taken before that point in time, it gets a DQ.
04/13/2015 01:28:00 AM · #16
Basically everyone should set their camera date and time to EDT?
04/13/2015 04:50:12 AM · #17
Or just no one take photos on the first or second of the month.... t

what a shame
04/13/2015 05:19:19 AM · #18
Originally posted by bohemka:

Sorry, this is absolutely incorrect


Surprising certainty for such a flawed argument. Your proposal for seeing people being able to submit within the month according to their local time zone would see those in parts of the world behind server time shooting in the final hours of their month only to find the challenge is closed to submissions when they go to upload. They would need to submit in the next month, just how here the photographer could have submitted in the previous month.

It is actually the only way to be equitable unless we deferred rollover for 24 hours for the monthly FS - then we really would have different rules for normal challenges and Free Studies....
04/13/2015 08:18:47 AM · #19
We've had other time-specific challenges that are tied to local time. And we've had DQs that have been tied specifically to exif data, regardless of local time. : ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1617/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1029552.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1617/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1029552.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Perhaps my argument is flawed, but there are inconsistencies, and I'm surprised that the SC would get together to look at a perfectly valid exif time, and then calculate that the photo was taken Iceland and DQ it. What if he said it had been taken in Colorado?

When you look through your archives for best of the month, best of the year, art of the year, etc., do you in the UK adjust your view of available photos by five hours? By six in much of the rest of Europe? Do the Australians and Kiwis here disregard photos taken during the first 14 hours of the month or year? It's a can of worms.
04/13/2015 08:30:15 AM · #20
Originally posted by bohemka:

We've had other time-specific challenges that are tied to local time. And we've had DQs that have been tied specifically to exif data, regardless of local time. : ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1617/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1029552.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1617/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1029552.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Perhaps my argument is flawed, but there are inconsistencies, and I'm surprised that the SC would get together to look at a perfectly valid exif time, and then calculate that the photo was taken Iceland and DQ it. What if he said it had been taken in Colorado?

When you look through your archives for best of the month, best of the year, art of the year, etc., do you in the UK adjust your view of available photos by five hours? By six in much of the rest of Europe? Do the Australians and Kiwis here disregard photos taken during the first 14 hours of the month or year? It's a can of worms.

If rollovers are equal for all, so should closing dates be. It's arbitrary otherwise.

I hadn't thought about this. It means that us in Europe technically have 6 fewer hours than US folk? A calendar-month of hours from rollover for everybody seems fair. I can't see how the current ruling is fair.

Message edited by author 2015-04-13 08:32:31.
04/13/2015 08:35:50 AM · #21
Although, it's worth thinking about the opposite case. If you took a photo "March 1st at 1 AM UK time", would that be a DQ offense too? According to server time it's still March. "1 AM on April 1st UK time" is a DQ, it seems.

Message edited by author 2015-04-13 08:37:12.
04/13/2015 08:37:00 AM · #22
Well, it would also mean that you have six hours into the next month/year as well, so the amount of time is the same.

Edit: Cross-posting. That's right, but who would do that? When I lived in Germany I certainly didn't look at photos taken in different months or years so I could line up with the server.

Message edited by author 2015-04-13 08:38:39.
04/13/2015 08:48:52 AM · #23
Originally posted by bohemka:

I'm surprised that the SC would get together to look at a perfectly valid exif time, and then calculate that the photo was taken Iceland and DQ it.


That's exactly what happens as a matter of course. It's what we are supposed to do.

Originally posted by bohemka:

What if he said it had been taken in Colorado?


He didn't.

Originally posted by bohemka:

When you look through your archives for best of the month, best of the year, art of the year, etc., do you in the UK adjust your view of available photos by five hours?


Absolutely I would/do.

Originally posted by bohemka:

Do the Australians and Kiwis here disregard photos taken during the first 14 hours of the month or year? It's a can of worms.


Yes they should - or get them into the FS that is still open. Any image taken can be submitted to a Free Study.
04/13/2015 08:51:54 AM · #24
I am completely biased considering I benefited from these DQs and ended up on the front page. But having said that, isn't there some sort of rule against having too many consecutive aurora borealis images anyway? ;) Never sure whether to blame voters or Obama ...
04/13/2015 08:55:10 AM · #25
It's very simple. The FS challenges are open for precisely a month and change at the same exact moment for everybody. Whatever challenge was open for submissions when you took your shot is the challenge to submit to.

If you aren't on server time there is an adjustment to be made. It's the same for every single challenge. I know that rollover for me in the UK is normally 5am (4am for a couple of weeks).

The FS challenges behave no differently, nor will the rain challenge that will close for some people before their month is out.... but for others will be available for a short time in May.

It's also predictable and thus submission errors are preventable.
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