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DPChallenge Forums >> General Discussion >> About cross browser support for website
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 09/28/2004 11:56:45 AM · #1
Hi all,

Just wondering if some of you know how to build a cross browser website. What are the steps to follow when loading a website on a browser? What kind of information do you have to gather and for what use?

Thanks!!

Message edited by author 2004-09-28 11:59:47.
 09/28/2004 12:02:39 PM · #2
Not worth the bother just build for IE 6 as that is what the huge majority use and most stuff is compatible anyway.

Cue browser geeks saying "W00t! Fir3rfox rocks man, IE Micro$oft is insecure duuude"

09/28/2004 12:03:38 PM · #3
Alternatively, build it in Flash then it will work on any browser at any resolution and on any operating system.

09/28/2004 12:06:00 PM · #4
The official way of doing this would be to follow the HTML etc specs as defined at W3C, since all browsers should follow these specs. However, since IE doesn't always, you may find it easiest to just have two browsers installed on your computer, and check the website in both to ensure that there aren't any differences.

Message edited by author 2004-09-28 12:06:33.
 09/28/2004 12:07:02 PM · #5
Hehe, Jon is funny. ;-D

True though - based on the visitors I get, the majority of my time should be spent just supporting IE well.

MSIE 6.0 - 86.08%
MSIE 5.5 - 8.46%
Mozilla - 4.49%
Safari - 0.50%
MSIE 5.01 - 0.47%

I also bet most of those Mozilla hits are me checking the site works in Moz. :-)
 09/28/2004 12:07:58 PM · #6
Originally posted by Manic:
The official way of doing this would be to follow the HTML etc specs as defined at W3C, since all browsers should follow these specs.

I've found myself even following the specs to the letter doesn't mean they'll render identically..
 09/28/2004 12:09:30 PM · #7
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Hehe, Jon is funny. ;-D

True though - based on the visitors I get, the majority of my time should be spent just supporting IE well.

MSIE 6.0 - 86.08%
MSIE 5.5 - 8.46%
Mozilla - 4.49%
Safari - 0.50%
MSIE 5.01 - 0.47%

I also bet most of those Mozilla hits are me checking the site works in Moz. :-)


Thanks Paul hehe :D

My site is pretty much the same - around 92% IE and 94%PC
 09/28/2004 12:17:49 PM · #8
Ok thank you all for you infos,

But what about page size? Some websites dont bother and display like 800x600 websites, and you have space on the right and left if you have bigger resolution. How do you manage to get a great rendering at any resolution? How do you manage to set max/min sizes for the items of your page?

Thanks!
 09/28/2004 12:29:55 PM · #9
Originally posted by jonpink:
Not worth the bother just build for IE 6 as that is what the huge majority use and most stuff is compatible anyway.

Cue browser geeks saying "W00t! Fir3rfox rocks man, IE Micro$oft is insecure duuude"


OK - I'll bite. It is not just a browser geek issue. I agree that you can mostly do this but when IE does handle some stuff in a proprietary way and it breaks in other browsers because they don't follow the spec then you present your visitor with a suboptimal experience. Might not be a big deal unless the person having the problem might have been a big customer who was willing to buy your product or service until you made it too hard to do it.

I find that building a least common denominator site and using stylesheets gets you a really long way - you can get a great looking site that can "degrade" nicely for older browsers but still present your information.

Oh - and here is the obligatory geek statement... Fir3f0x rox d00d!

Dave
 09/28/2004 12:30:56 PM · #10
Originally posted by Jeanseb:
But what about page size? Some websites dont bother and display like 800x600 websites, and you have space on the right and left if you have bigger resolution. How do you manage to get a great rendering at any resolution?


Short answer, you don't. It's a world of compromises. But you can make it look "good" at various resolutions.

Originally posted by Jeanseb:
How do you manage to set max/min sizes for the items of your page?


Depends, are you doing your layout in CSS or via tables or flash or...? Generally you would want your layout to look good at 800x600 but not necessarily be locked at that size.
 09/28/2004 12:58:15 PM · #11
It'd probably be helpful to check out some articles written on website accessibility and design standards. There are tons of sites with information (sitepoint.com, webmonkey.com, etc.) and you're apt to get a more concise, more helpful overview than you will by collecting random tips here.
 09/28/2004 01:05:32 PM · #12
Originally posted by mk:
It'd probably be helpful to check out some articles written on website accessibility and design standards. There are tons of sites with information (sitepoint.com, webmonkey.com, etc.) and you're apt to get a more concise, more helpful overview than you will by collecting random tips here.

I used to get a regular newsletter from WebMonkey -- usually pretty relevant and well-written.
 09/28/2004 01:21:38 PM · #13
Originally posted by jonpink:
Originally posted by PaulMdx:
Hehe, Jon is funny. ;-D

True though - based on the visitors I get, the majority of my time should be spent just supporting IE well.

MSIE 6.0 - 86.08%
MSIE 5.5 - 8.46%
Mozilla - 4.49%
Safari - 0.50%
MSIE 5.01 - 0.47%

I also bet most of those Mozilla hits are me checking the site works in Moz. :-)


Thanks Paul hehe :D

My site is pretty much the same - around 92% IE and 94%PC


Wait a minute... So you are saying that 6% of the people that visit your site are doing so using Servers or PDA's? (Apple PCs are considered PCs so are UNIX workstations that are full computers on their own, meaning they aren't a terminal screen connected to a central server...)
 09/28/2004 01:22:35 PM · #14
Originally posted by mk:
It'd probably be helpful to check out some articles written on website accessibility and design standards. There are tons of sites with information (sitepoint.com, webmonkey.com, etc.) and you're apt to get a more concise, more helpful overview than you will by collecting random tips here.


Well at least here I've random tips that are relevant for beta user. Some of the useful site you precise appear wait to complex to me at this time.
 09/28/2004 01:27:39 PM · #15
If you want some really good generic Cascading Style Sheets check out Bluerobot the person that wrote that site compiled some great stylesheets that will allow your site to be presented virtually identically across browsers and platforms.

The CSS files degrade superbly for older and non-gui browsers, like those for the visually impaired. The layouts are available for free and will work, by default, with all the recognizable browser names out there, from IE, Mozilla, Netscape, Konqueror, Nautilus, Firefox, Opera and so on and so forth...

I recently rebuilt a website with it and the site came out nicely.

Good luck with what you end up going with.
 09/28/2004 02:46:26 PM · #16
Originally posted by Jeanseb:
Ok thank you all for you infos,

But what about page size? Some websites don't bother and display like 800x600 websites, and you have space on the right and left if you have bigger resolution. How do you manage to get a great rendering at any resolution? How do you manage to set max/min sizes for the items of your page?

Thanks!


Just make the right end of your website a repetitive pattern / clean color and set it to 100% Auto Stretch and it will fill any size browser in the world.

Eg: //www.dpchallenge.com

Message edited by author 2004-09-28 14:46:51.
 09/28/2004 02:50:15 PM · #17
Originally posted by dsa157:
Originally posted by jonpink:
Not worth the bother just build for IE 6 as that is what the huge majority use and most stuff is compatible anyway.

Cue browser geeks saying "W00t! Fir3rfox rocks man, IE Micro$oft is insecure duuude"


OK - I'll bite. It is not just a browser geek issue. I agree that you can mostly do this but when IE does handle some stuff in a proprietary way and it breaks in other browsers because they don't follow the spec then you present your visitor with a suboptimal experience. Might not be a big deal unless the person having the problem might have been a big customer who was willing to buy your product or service until you made it too hard to do it.

I find that building a least common denominator site and using stylesheets gets you a really long way - you can get a great looking site that can "degrade" nicely for older browsers but still present your information.

Oh - and here is the obligatory geek statement... Fir3f0x rox d00d!

Dave


But you must accept that you can't cater for everyone so it's not worth it is it? Millions of potential visitors / customers browse with javascript off, images off etc but your not going to design for them too.

As for customers, well it would have to be very wrong for them to be put off buying a product, and the percentage is so low anyway so I don't think the extra work and upkeep is worth it when they are bringing out patches plug ins and new browsers every 5 minuets.

Your web designers time would be much better spent marketing the site.
09/28/2004 02:51:49 PM · #18
Originally posted by Nelzie:
Wait a minute... So you are saying that 6% of the people that visit your site are doing so using Servers or PDA's? (Apple PCs are considered PCs so are UNIX workstations that are full computers on their own, meaning they aren't a terminal screen connected to a central server...)


I really have no idea what that means. But my server says who is using a PC and running Windows 95, 98, 200 XP etc and who is using a MAx running Os 8 Os 9 Os X etc so that's what it means.

Also I think a percentage of any traffic surely comes from server spiders etc.
 09/28/2004 06:14:24 PM · #19
Originally posted by jonpink:

But you must accept that you can't cater for everyone


yes I accept that.

Originally posted by jonpink:

so it's not worth it is it?


No I don't accept that.

You show Mozilla/Firefox users (of which I am one) as 5% of your visitors. If you run a site that gets decent traffic that can translate into thousands (or more, or much more) of people you are not serving. I agree that you can't have a site that works perfectly for everyone. But you can address most of your customers without having to force them to use a tool of your choosing. You can do this with minimal or no extra effort if you initially use good design principals and supported standards.


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