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DPChallenge Forums >> Hardware and Software >> Broken Camera frame
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01/27/2015 09:43:00 AM · #1
fyi

my tripod shots started to come out blurry , or less clear than shots I took handheld using VR

hmm , what's going on ?
checked the AF fine tuning of couple of lenses 50mm and 85 mm that were not giving me good results while using a tripod and speeds around 1/10 .. 1/50

While doing this I noticed the image would move up and down slightly while the camera is on the tripod and tighten ... that with only a minor leverage from my hand

checking the tripod plate i noticed the base of the camera was separating slightly from the body ... what ?!?!?!
got myself some decent screwdrivers - JIS 00, 0 and 1 - removed the bottom rrubber, and removed the base of the D800

This is what I found:
' . substr('//armando-m.smugmug.com/photos/i-vtxBSVx/0/M/i-vtxBSVx-M.jpg', strrpos('//armando-m.smugmug.com/photos/i-vtxBSVx/0/M/i-vtxBSVx-M.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

turns out the broken part is the rear frame !
' . substr('//armando-m.smugmug.com/photos/i-NBg6RX9/0/M/i-NBg6RX9-M.jpg', strrpos('//armando-m.smugmug.com/photos/i-NBg6RX9/0/M/i-NBg6RX9-M.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

the base of the camera, which is the support for the tripod mount, screws to this 4 points :
' . substr('//armando-m.smugmug.com/photos/i-fSBNV8W/0/M/i-fSBNV8W-M.jpg', strrpos('//armando-m.smugmug.com/photos/i-fSBNV8W/0/M/i-fSBNV8W-M.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

the beam that got broken seems to me quite fragile

my camera is three years old and out of warranty - 1 yr for me - also I have not been kind to the camera, other people have reported that a near new D800 has presented the same fracture and they have been denied warranty service ...

I'll post more info regarding what I'll do once I decide
01/27/2015 09:48:27 AM · #2
Holy smokes. Excellent forensic work and diagnosis. Duct tape? Seriously... as crude as it may sound, I wonder if a tiny amount of special adhesive wouldn't just do the trick. Looks like the frame will still kind of support what's needed in an impact, but will pull away when fixed to a tripod.
01/27/2015 09:59:33 AM · #3
Originally posted by bohemka:

Holy smokes. Excellent forensic work and diagnosis. Duct tape? Seriously... as crude as it may sound, I wonder if a tiny amount of special adhesive wouldn't just do the trick. Looks like the frame will still kind of support what's needed in an impact, but will pull away when fixed to a tripod.

Exactly! the problem is tension , not pressure

I'm considering epoxy, I have used a metal reinforced paste that works really well , still planning how exactly , I'm trying to get the the d800 parts manual to help me plan what to do, a bit more space will be ideal

and

I'll use an L-Plate instead of jut the bottom plate when using it on a tripod
01/27/2015 10:41:26 AM · #4
That's not cool.
I would try the epoxy first.
I don't know how hard it is to strip the rest of it down to remove just that part.
Maybe you can get a guy that welds aluminum.
01/27/2015 11:32:07 AM · #5
Is it still under warranty?
01/27/2015 12:12:50 PM · #6
Camera had a 1 yr warranty - Nikon Mexico- and it will be 3 years old this coming april, so ... no warranty

The other person that is having this problem - from fred miranda forum - has a USA purchased D800, just a few months old, she heard about the problem after nikon service returned the camera to her indicating it had suffered severe impact and denied warranty service for the left AF problem that plagues the D800

I'll do the epoxy with some hesitation, but I wouldn't consider any welding, that would entail removing the back frame along with all the dissassembly and disconnecting of many electronic components, given the level of miniaturization I'm almost certain I'll damage something and end up with a non functional camera
01/27/2015 12:21:40 PM · #7
Ah. I'm not familiar with Nikons, I thought that was one of the ones that just came out. Or is that the 850?
01/27/2015 12:27:53 PM · #8
know anyone that can weld?
01/27/2015 12:50:54 PM · #9
Originally posted by Mike:

know anyone that can weld?

yes ...

it is a messy process, to prevent damage to other parts the whole rear frame needs to be removed and stripped of any delicate parts, not something I'll do , or pay someone to do it
01/27/2015 12:59:45 PM · #10
Originally posted by armando_m:

Originally posted by Mike:

know anyone that can weld?

yes ...

it is a messy process, to prevent damage to other parts the whole rear frame needs to be removed and stripped of any delicate parts, not something I'll do , or pay someone to do it


Haven't read the whole thing, because it's way out of my knowledge base.

However, when you said welding -- what about jb weld?
01/27/2015 01:01:34 PM · #11
Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by armando_m:

Originally posted by Mike:

know anyone that can weld?

yes ...

it is a messy process, to prevent damage to other parts the whole rear frame needs to be removed and stripped of any delicate parts, not something I'll do , or pay someone to do it


Haven't read the whole thing, because it's way out of my knowledge base.

However, when you said welding -- what about jb weld?


I'll put my vote in on that junk. Fixed a cracked carburetor on a 350 Chevy with it 20 years ago - STILL working just fine.

01/27/2015 01:27:53 PM · #12
That part is likely magnesium. ..not aluminum. Use the job weld.
01/27/2015 01:41:44 PM · #13
That's a structural member. If you do at least isolate and sucure it with JB Weld or some form of epoxy, that's a good idea, but I'm not sure I'd ever use it again with a tripod. You may have to bite the bullet and get the frame replaced. That sucks, and if it's a noted problem, shame on Nikon for not at least offering up something to help out.
01/27/2015 01:53:19 PM · #14
Interesting failure... from the drawing, it looks like there is a sharp internal corner at the point of failure, which would be a design faux pas. From the photo of the failure, however, that inside corner looks curved. There appears to be plenty of section there, but if it is a cast part (and it looks to be) there may have been an internal or external defect that caused a reduction in strength. Given what's visible of the crack path at the surface, it does look like the material used has a rather coarse grain structure, never good for strength.
01/27/2015 02:13:31 PM · #15
Originally posted by kirbic:

it does look like the material used has a rather coarse grain structure, never good for strength.


Actually, what you are seeing are grinding marks. It appears that this area had an overflow or gating associated with the casting process that was ground down to eliminate any protrusions when the overflow/gate was knocked off. The grinding marks can act as stress concentration points and often act as fatigue crack initiation sites if the part is stressed in the correct direction.

Tim
01/27/2015 02:54:03 PM · #16
I love this place.
01/27/2015 02:58:13 PM · #17
Get a quote from Nikon. It looks like their fault, and they might fix it, even out of warranty.
01/27/2015 03:00:03 PM · #18
yup

when I said epoxy it is a thing just like jb weld , which I have never seen in mexico ,
devcon is the epoxy brand I have used, they have a formula reinfoced with metal, works like a charm
01/27/2015 03:40:29 PM · #19
Originally posted by atupdate:

Originally posted by kirbic:

it does look like the material used has a rather coarse grain structure, never good for strength.


Actually, what you are seeing are grinding marks. It appears that this area had an overflow or gating associated with the casting process that was ground down to eliminate any protrusions when the overflow/gate was knocked off. The grinding marks can act as stress concentration points and often act as fatigue crack initiation sites if the part is stressed in the correct direction.

Tim


Nope, I'm looking at the edge of the crack itself. That is indicating to me a rather coarse-grained material. I agree that the grinding marks can represent stress concentrations, but they also normally put the surface in compression, which can mitigate that.
01/27/2015 05:40:50 PM · #20
anyone care to see how the D810 looks in that same spot ?
01/27/2015 10:55:01 PM · #21
Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by atupdate:

Originally posted by kirbic:

it does look like the material used has a rather coarse grain structure, never good for strength.


Actually, what you are seeing are grinding marks. It appears that this area had an overflow or gating associated with the casting process that was ground down to eliminate any protrusions when the overflow/gate was knocked off. The grinding marks can act as stress concentration points and often act as fatigue crack initiation sites if the part is stressed in the correct direction.

Tim


Nope, I'm looking at the edge of the crack itself. That is indicating to me a rather coarse-grained material. I agree that the grinding marks can represent stress concentrations, but they also normally put the surface in compression, which can mitigate that.


The tight radius seen in the drawing of the casting, which is located directly behind the crack in the photograph is the likely cause. It would be a much worse stress concentration than one caused by a grinding mark. Also, porosity is a problem in magnesium castings and the presence of such defects will greatly reduce part strength.
01/28/2015 07:22:10 AM · #22
Originally posted by kirbic:


Nope, I'm looking at the edge of the crack itself. That is indicating to me a rather coarse-grained material. I agree that the grinding marks can represent stress concentrations, but they also normally put the surface in compression, which can mitigate that.


Coarse grain on the outer surface of a die casting. Nope, never seen it in my 30+ years as a metallurgist. It is hard to tell definitively from a single picture but the "steps" on the fracture surface indicates a fatigue fracture to me (multiple fracture initiation sites). I also don't see any bending around the fracture, which would indicate a stress overload condition that would be associated with a dropped camera.

Tim

Message edited by author 2015-01-28 07:41:39.
01/28/2015 09:42:17 AM · #23
Last night repair

dc-dc board out of the way
' . substr('//armando-m.smugmug.com/photos/i-8ftXkwk/0/L/i-8ftXkwk-L.jpg', strrpos('//armando-m.smugmug.com/photos/i-8ftXkwk/0/L/i-8ftXkwk-L.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

epoxy applied, plenty more underneath, board back in place
' . substr('//armando-m.smugmug.com/photos/i-F6BbrLm/0/L/i-F6BbrLm-L.jpg', strrpos('//armando-m.smugmug.com/photos/i-F6BbrLm/0/L/i-F6BbrLm-L.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

The camera tested ok after reassembly

I hope it holds and I have ordered an L-plate for any future tripod use
01/28/2015 09:11:02 PM · #24
Wow! Kudos! I hope it works. I used to be that brave - to effect my own repairs - but now I am old and too skeptic (read - blind). I hope it works for you. Good luck!
01/28/2015 10:48:57 PM · #25
I'm not sure hpw much help the L-bracket will be since they typically screw into the tripod socket. Though I suppose they might still spread the load out a bit...
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