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09/27/2004 12:49:50 AM · #1
Is a zoo a natural environment?
09/27/2004 12:51:30 AM · #2
Some zoos have set up their exhibits to give a very natural environment to the animals. As most people only have access to zoos and not national parks or wildlife preserves then zoos should be considered appropriate for the challenge, IMHO.
09/27/2004 12:52:09 AM · #3
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Is a zoo a natural environment?


I think this will be THE question this week. And if a zoo doesn't qualify, I guess we are left with humans in THEIR natural environment?
09/27/2004 12:53:20 AM · #4
i would sugest if you shoot in a zoo, try to watch the background or foreground and make the shot look like it was NOT done at a zoo.

James
09/27/2004 12:59:28 AM · #5
Another challenge where everyone will argue to the end.

Technically, Zoos and even Wildlife parks are *not* natural environments.. no matter how much they make them *look* like the are.

Wildlife reserves would be.. as it is a natural environment that has been preserved, not created.

However.. a good many people probably don't have access to *true* natural environments.. and a good many people don't have access to zoos or wildlife parks either.. (or, like me, don't really have access to natural environments that have any hope in hell of letting me see wildlife.. I'm certainly not camping out in a blind for a weekly challenge thankyouvermuchkbye).

So... yah. I'm as flip-floppy on this one as John Kerry on Gay Rights.

I don't know exactly *how* I want to vote yet.
09/27/2004 12:59:51 AM · #6
Gee, I guess my un-domesticated cat won't cut it, huh? Oh well! Guess I'll have to shoot that wild boar that lives up the street.
09/27/2004 01:03:59 AM · #7
Originally posted by Artyste:



So... yah. I'm as flip-floppy on this one as John Kerry on Gay Rights.

I don't know exactly *how* I want to vote yet.


Love it.
09/27/2004 01:05:40 AM · #8
What about birds? There are birds in cities... Squirrels? I'm guessing "wildlife" doesn't necessarily mean it has to be something totally exotic.
09/27/2004 01:37:57 AM · #9
Originally posted by ancientimages:

What about birds? There are birds in cities... Squirrels? I'm guessing "wildlife" doesn't necessarily mean it has to be something totally exotic.


should be fine. un-domesticated. squirrels live in the woods too, ntot just in the city.
09/27/2004 01:46:09 AM · #10
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Is a zoo a natural environment?


Zoo animals are considered wildlife as they are not domesticated. And for some animals which had disappered in their natural environment (some types of horses and deer), zoos may be the only "natural" environment they have.
09/27/2004 03:26:58 AM · #11
How about farm animals? Where do they fall under?
09/27/2004 03:29:58 AM · #12
Originally posted by bruchen:

How about farm animals? Where do they fall under?


Farm animals would fall under the "Domesticated animals" category.
09/27/2004 06:40:54 AM · #13
Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by bruchen:

How about farm animals? Where do they fall under?


Farm animals would fall under the "Domesticated animals" category.

Domesticated means to make the animal accustome to living in a human environment. I don't think that would apply to all farm animals; for instance many of the farmers around here raise tattle, but those cows would have grazed the same land in the wild -- someone just put up a fence around them.

In voting I would just look for an animal, doing what animals do, without signs of a human shaped environment

David
09/27/2004 06:57:42 AM · #14
Originally posted by Britannica:

Originally posted by Artyste:

Originally posted by bruchen:

How about farm animals? Where do they fall under?


Farm animals would fall under the "Domesticated animals" category.

Domesticated means to make the animal accustome to living in a human environment. I don't think that would apply to all farm animals; for instance many of the farmers around here raise tattle, but those cows would have grazed the same land in the wild -- someone just put up a fence around them.

In voting I would just look for an animal, doing what animals do, without signs of a human shaped environment

David


Yes, but cattle have been selectively bred for thousands of years, so even if you stuck them in the wild, they're still domestic.

Message edited by author 2004-09-27 06:58:14.
09/27/2004 07:25:06 AM · #15
Cows, Horses, Goats, Sheep, Pigs, Geese, Ducks ... all farmyard animals bred over millennia by man (domesticated) and therefore out of scope.

Dogs, Cats, Hamsters, Aquarium Fish, Caged birds ... all pets and therefore out of scope.

So what do we have left?
zoo visits (debatable on point 2 above), falconry displays, sitting in a hedge/field waiting for that awsome capture....

This is going to be a very difficult challenge. There will be a lot of crappy snaps of the back end of rabbits, lots of controversy about the 'wildness' of other images and one or two absolutely fantastic images.

Message edited by author 2004-09-27 07:25:48.
09/27/2004 07:56:53 AM · #16
lol...my first thought was "what about zoos and aquariums?" then i looked to see if there was a thread, and i found the great debate.

i met a guy this weekend who carves ducks. he is learning photography from the ground up in order to round out his artwork. it was fascinating to hear him talk about slipping down to a small pond in the dark, in camoflage, with face paint, only to scare off the birds by snapping a twig--then to wait patiently for 30-40 minutes for the birds to come back.

i share this because it highlights the challenge: to make the effort to get outside and patiently wait, versus going somewhere where the animals are already corraled and popping off a few digital snapshots just to have something to enter in the challenge.

i also would hesitate throwing out whole species just because some of their members have been successfully domesticated, as there is quite a difference between a wild boar in a swamp and a farm pig, a wild mustang and a quarter horse, etc.

i would also say that if you feel a zoo is your only option to capture nature, and/or if you live in a more urban environment, try this: go buy some seed, get out past the city limits, find a stump or a rock, put the seed out, and wait...you'll probably get more than a photograph.
09/27/2004 08:04:34 AM · #17
Zoos? Oh boy...

To me, the whole intent of saying 'natural environment' was to get people off their butts into the great outdoors (without cages/fences) and take some Wildlife shots.

Do it! Let's see the results...this is one of the most challenging challenges I've seen in my short time here!
09/27/2004 08:08:26 AM · #18
Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Zoos? Oh boy...

To me, the whole intent of saying 'natural environment' was to get people off their butts into the great outdoors (without cages/fences) and take some Wildlife shots.

Do it! Let's see the results...this is one of the most challenging challenges I've seen in my short time here!


The problem with that is that some don't have accesss to animals in their "natural environment". IMHO, zoo shots are fine. However, I do expect people to make their photographs look as "wild" as possible. Thankfully for me, I'll be going home tomorrow and will probably have access to some wildlife in their natural environment, but if all else fails...zoo, here I come!

June
09/27/2004 08:10:54 AM · #19
I agree with skiprow and thatcloudthere wholeheartedly, however the debate is largely a moot point. If you shoot in a zoo (or even museum) with a natural or blurred background, then nobody will know during voting whether the scene is natural or not. Unfortunately, that might mean a disadvantage to those who make the extra effort to shoot a relatively mundane squirrel or bird in the wild.
09/27/2004 08:11:59 AM · #20
Originally posted by chiqui74:

Originally posted by thatcloudthere:

Zoos? Oh boy...

To me, the whole intent of saying 'natural environment' was to get people off their butts into the great outdoors (without cages/fences) and take some Wildlife shots.

Do it! Let's see the results...this is one of the most challenging challenges I've seen in my short time here!


The problem with that is that some don't have accesss to animals in their "natural environment". IMHO, zoo shots are fine. However, I do expect people to make their photographs look as "wild" as possible. Thankfully for me, I'll be going home tomorrow and will probably have access to some wildlife in their natural environment, but if all else fails...zoo, here I come!

June


Yeah, but you city-folk have enough advantages in other challenges... It's our turn now!

;0)

If the photo convinces me that it was taken in a natural environment, I can't mark it down but if I see polar bears on those fake rocks with the fake pond I won't be able to help but reduce my vote!
09/27/2004 08:50:33 AM · #21
Originally posted by moodville:

Some zoos have set up their exhibits to give a very natural environment to the animals. As most people only have access to zoos and not national parks or wildlife preserves then zoos should be considered appropriate for the challenge, IMHO.


And some of us live in the sticks, without access to zoos, parks, or reserves. If zoos are included, 9 chances out of 10, something exotic will end up winning. So where does that leave those people? 10 minutes outside any city, you can find wildlife in it's natural environment (if you don't encounter it in the cities greenspace first). That's the challenge afterall isn't it?

Message edited by author 2004-09-27 08:52:17.
09/27/2004 08:51:28 AM · #22
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

Is a zoo a natural environment?


How many zoos can you name that were not manmade?

Message edited by author 2004-09-27 08:52:38.
09/27/2004 09:09:37 AM · #23
I don't mind either way regarding zoos, but I think this is a very true statement by orussell.

Originally posted by orussell:

If zoos are included, 9 chances out of 10, something exotic will end up winning.
09/27/2004 09:39:09 AM · #24
I agree with thatcloudthere it's wildlife. For us that live near the wild its a great challenge but if we make a wrong move the " wildlife " does'nt run to the otherside of the cage.We can't wait untill the light is just right or the animal does something cute.We have blackbear deer and wolves are the bigger animals here but still very difficult to get a shot.
09/27/2004 09:41:36 AM · #25
Originally posted by Links 2 3 4:

I agree with thatcloudthere it's wildlife. For us that live near the wild its a great challenge but if we make a wrong move the " wildlife " does'nt run to the otherside of the cage.We can't wait untill the light is just right or the animal does something cute.We have blackbear deer and wolves are the bigger animals here but still very difficult to get a shot.


That's why I said it was a difficult challenge, because it's difficult to get a shot...many of us will be sopping wet in the mud with our cameras this week! Others will be at the zoo...

I will try my best, but I can't assume I'll be able to get a good wildlife shot within the next week. But I'd rather vote on 50 true wildlife shots than 350 zoo or pet photos...

Edit: By the way, great goose shot! Those are the type of challenging shots we'll be going for this week!

Message edited by author 2004-09-27 09:43:16.
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