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01/19/2015 11:47:21 AM · #1
Deflation, as it relates to economics, sports, emotions, etc. Shows us your best interpretation of the phenomenon of deflation. ruleset = Advanced Editing

Message edited by author 2015-01-19 11:52:19.
01/19/2015 12:32:05 PM · #2
Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffft.
01/19/2015 12:33:05 PM · #3
Originally posted by hahn23:

...Shows us your best interpretation of the phenomenon of deflation. ruleset = Advanced Editing


Sorry, I was not on the field to capture the 4th quarter Green bay performance... :-P
01/19/2015 12:43:19 PM · #4
Originally posted by scalvert:

Pffffffffffffffffffffffffffft.

Pbtbttbtbtbtbttt
01/19/2015 12:57:10 PM · #5
Originally posted by kirbic:

Originally posted by hahn23:

...Shows us your best interpretation of the phenomenon of deflation. ruleset = Advanced Editing


Sorry, I was not on the field to capture the 4th quarter Green bay performance... :-P


Well maybe Bear got a shot of the guy taking the air out of the Patriots footballs.

Message edited by author 2015-01-19 13:01:29.
01/19/2015 01:05:29 PM · #6
Getting back on track :-) I think Deflation is a pretty good DPC challenge word, open to many meanings.

In fact, I know exactly what I would shoot....
01/19/2015 03:15:03 PM · #7
global.
01/19/2015 06:16:14 PM · #8
I like the challenge.
01/19/2015 06:33:52 PM · #9
I smell a lesson in deflation geography.
01/20/2015 03:22:45 AM · #10
Sounds fun
01/21/2015 08:17:14 AM · #11
DeflateGate just got interesting.
01/21/2015 08:25:38 AM · #12
Originally posted by bohemka:

DeflateGate just got interesting.


Only 11 out of 12.
01/21/2015 03:12:00 PM · #13
Originally posted by bohemka:

DeflateGate just got interesting.

The widespread assumption of cheating is disappointing. Even with 11 out of 12 balls found underinflated, that doesn't necessarily mean the coach or QB knew about it or even that there was any intent (why not all 12?). It's the officials' responsibility to ensure proper equipment, and a faulty pressure gauge or honest mistake could have the same result. Seems like a distorted perception of the videotaping "scandal" (EVERY team videotaped opposing signals as a routine matter until the NFL sent out a memo asking them to stop, and the Broncos were caught still doing the same thing three years later) has led the general public to assume they're cheaters... despite the Patriots having the best record in the NFL since that incident. If they DID intentially manipulate the balls, then they should be punished accordingly, but it's a travesty to malign a team's accomplishments with assumptions of cheating when that might not be the case at all.
01/21/2015 03:19:47 PM · #14
It may be no indication of future acts, but regardless of other teams, there is a confirmed prior history of cheating, as well as using the "rules" to their advantage- so lets not act like anyone is "slandering the innocents." The coach is driven, perhaps doing anything to win.

It makes no difference if they would beat other teams using basketballs instead of footballs. What does it tell the Patriot fans that are kids? Win at all cost?

01/21/2015 03:37:30 PM · #15
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by bohemka:

DeflateGate just got interesting.

The widespread assumption of cheating is disappointing. Even with 11 out of 12 balls found underinflated, that doesn't necessarily mean the coach or QB knew about it or even that there was any intent (why not all 12?). It's the officials' responsibility to ensure proper equipment, and a faulty pressure gauge or honest mistake could have the same result. Seems like a distorted perception of the videotaping "scandal" (EVERY team videotaped opposing signals as a routine matter until the NFL sent out a memo asking them to stop, and the Broncos were caught still doing the same thing three years later) has led the general public to assume they're cheaters... despite the Patriots having the best record in the NFL since that incident. If they DID intentially manipulate the balls, then they should be punished accordingly, but it's a travesty to malign a team's accomplishments with assumptions of cheating when that might not be the case at all.

Just a footnote to clarify it was Josh McDaniels who was at the helm at the time of the Broncos' incident. McDaniels was QB coach and OC (2001 to 2008) with the Patriots before his brief stint as Head Coach with the Broncos. McDaniels is currently (2012-Present) OC with the Patriots. He learned under the tutelage of Bill Belichick. Bill Belichick has some serious explaining to do about Deflategate.

If the head coach did not know about what was going on, he should have known. This isn't about the game result against the Colts. It is about the integrity of the game.
01/21/2015 05:12:32 PM · #16
I would come to the natural conclusion that the 12th ball wasn't deflated because it was in play at the time. They would have had to deflate the balls after the referee stamped them as acceptable before the game started.

And it is a good point to say that maybe Belichick didn't know about it, but it isn't an excuse. The buck stops with him (or the GM or whomever) and either the organization is guilty or not.

The difference between Spygate and the Broncos...

Message edited by author 2015-01-21 17:15:44.
01/21/2015 05:18:00 PM · #17
If anything, it's good for Seattle PR. I think the conventional wisdom among couch potatoes was to cheer for New England because Seattle was the defending champs and we all like to see Goliath go down. Now that impression may shift to good guy vs. bad guy with more people siding with Seattle. Not that any of that matters to the actual game, just the perceptions.

Message edited by author 2015-01-21 17:18:17.
01/21/2015 05:23:35 PM · #18
I didn't realize that teams use different balls from each other until this story broke. What with the Patriot's history of cheating they should throw the book at them if this turns out to be true. Perhaps they could do what happens to those in the NCAA found cheating and have a playoff ban next year.
01/21/2015 06:16:41 PM · #19
Running a number of errands today I had the sufficiently poor decision-making skills and local reception to listen to Boston sports radio for much of the day. It was rather infuriating. And this is coming from someone whose interest in American football is nearly extinguished.

The New England sports radio defense includes: It's unfair that the Patriots are always the target of this stuff, no other team faces this much scrutiny; everybody does it; the Patriots crushed the Colts, and would have regardless of how much air was in the balls, so it shouldn't even be an issue; we're sure Peyton Manning does it (all roads lead to Manning comparisons here; the schadenfreude overload when the Broncos were ousted by Indianapolis was disturbing).

I believe that other teams do it, but that's not really a legitimate excuse if you've gotten past the third grade. If it really isn't a big deal, and the NFL sees it as more of a guideline than a strict rule, then they should come forward, say that, acknowledge that teams do take some liberties with the pressure of the balls, and diffuse the situation. That would be best for the NFL product, the super bowl, and of course the Patriots. That they haven't tried to diffuse the situation tells me it either is a big deal, or it's another example from the NFL that there's no honor among thieves. Either way there will be a harsh penalty, especially considering the NFL's moral train wreck of a year.

I'm sick of hearing about Spygate. I never once thought or cared about it, and won't start now. This is entirely unrelated.

I do believe that Belichick is behind it. A ball with less pressure is not only easier to throw (I'm sure Brady can throw any ball well), it is easier to grip and hold on to, and less likely to be punched out (reducing the chance to fumble and turn it over). If there's one thing Belichick does not tolerate, it's turnovers. It's entirely believable that he -- the mad scientist that he is -- concocted this scheme to help his players (namely RBs) hold on to the ball. That said, even if he's not behind it, it happened, and he runs the ship and should go down with it. Sean Peyton paid a pretty hefty penalty for "not knowing" about the bounty program in New Orleans. In Goodell's own words: "Ignorance is no excuse."

But what aggravates me the most is something that I haven't seen or heard yet, which is the instrument of their infraction. The sport is football, it is the National Football League, and they were playing in the American Football Conference championship, and they tampered with the FOOTBALL. Illegal cleats I don't care, illegally gained intelligence I don't care, performance-enhancing drugs I don't care. The list goes on. But when you screw with the football? It may seem overly literal or pedantic to many, but I find that fundamentally wrong. If you find the need to F with the football, in the sport of football, perhaps you shouldn't be involved with the sport.

And after that rant, yes... What a stupid policy. Refs issue the same balls to everybody, end of story.
01/21/2015 07:58:46 PM · #20
Originally posted by blindjustice:

there is a confirmed prior history of cheating, as well as using the "rules" to their advantage- so lets not act like anyone is "slandering the innocents."

Really? The previous sanction was not for cheating so much as ignoring a memo to coaches. The rules at the time stated that teams couldn't record opposing signals and use them during the game, but said nothing about recording for later review as was the case. Obviously the NFL disagreed with Belichick's interpretation of allowing later study of something that had previously been OK during games, but that's NOT the same as decoding the other team's signals to gain an advantage during the game as most assume.

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I would come to the natural conclusion that the 12th ball wasn't deflated because it was in play at the time.

That makes sense, and might very well have been what happened, but we should still be waiting for the investigation to conclude before throwing the team under the bus. Maybe it was an honest mistake in measurement. Maybe the balls were only slightly off (as is apparently common, and even ALLOWED), but lost more pressure when brought outside in the cold. Maybe the ball attendant or even the ref was a fan or Colts-hater and acted without the team's knowledge. There are no shortage of possibilities that DON'T involve cheating and yet the jury has already passed judgement. Would the Colts have been equally vilified? Even if spygate was considered cheating, should that be the default assumption from now on? What's to stop an opposing player from bringing a Patriots ball to the sideline and letting the air out himself before turning it over to officials? Even one ball out of spec will now mean instant condemnation. Surely anyone who might have misinterpreted a DPC rule would be appalled to be branded a cheater by the rest of the members and automatically guilty of any perceived violation for life.

Message edited by author 2015-01-21 20:04:50.
01/21/2015 08:20:26 PM · #21
No. The evidence is out there Shannon. The balls were a full 2 pounds below their limit (tolerance is 12.5 to 13.5 pounds). Now it is being reported that they were found to be fine 2hr 15min before the game (as is usual), were found to be deflated at halftime, pumped back up, and found to be deflated again at the end of the game. None of the Colts' balls were outside tolerance.

I'm open to alternative explanations, but if those are facts as they are being reported it is plainly obvious someone purposely deflated them twice.

I have no reason at this point to give New England the benefit of the doubt given their history and the seemingly compelling nature of the current evidence. The only way out, to me, is that the facts are not as reported (which is always a possibility).
01/21/2015 08:36:16 PM · #22
There are too many jokes here about macho football players handling soft balls on the field to even try to take this seriously.

It's a game. Like marbles or kickball.
01/21/2015 09:28:05 PM · #23
I have been reading this thread with interest and came across the following related article

"The existence of the investigation, as initially reported by Bob Kravitz of WTHR-TV in Indianapolis, suggests that the referee failed to properly check the specifications of the balls, the referee didnít properly secure the balls before they were given to the ball attendant, or something happened to the balls after they were given to the ball attendant."

Would such issues not be resolved simply by having the Referees in control of the balls and having both teams play with the same ball?

Ray
01/21/2015 10:00:01 PM · #24
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by blindjustice:

there is a confirmed prior history of cheating, as well as using the "rules" to their advantage- so lets not act like anyone is "slandering the innocents."

Really? The previous sanction was not for cheating so much as ignoring a memo to coaches. The rules at the time stated that teams couldn't record opposing signals and use them during the game, but said nothing about recording for later review as was the case. Obviously the NFL disagreed with Belichick's interpretation of allowing later study of something that had previously been OK during games, but that's NOT the same as decoding the other team's signals to gain an advantage during the game as most assume.

Originally posted by DrAchoo:

I would come to the natural conclusion that the 12th ball wasn't deflated because it was in play at the time.

That makes sense, and might very well have been what happened, but we should still be waiting for the investigation to conclude before throwing the team under the bus. Maybe it was an honest mistake in measurement. Maybe the balls were only slightly off (as is apparently common, and even ALLOWED), but lost more pressure when brought outside in the cold. Maybe the ball attendant or even the ref was a fan or Colts-hater and acted without the team's knowledge. There are no shortage of possibilities that DON'T involve cheating and yet the jury has already passed judgement. Would the Colts have been equally vilified? Even if spygate was considered cheating, should that be the default assumption from now on? What's to stop an opposing player from bringing a Patriots ball to the sideline and letting the air out himself before turning it over to officials? Even one ball out of spec will now mean instant condemnation. Surely anyone who might have misinterpreted a DPC rule would be appalled to be branded a cheater by the rest of the members and automatically guilty of any perceived violation for life.


Spoken like all the other Pats apologists. BB must hand out talking points at the gate.
01/21/2015 10:07:46 PM · #25
Originally posted by DrAchoo:

Now it is being reported that they were found to be fine 2hr 15min before the game (as is usual), were found to be deflated at halftime, pumped back up, and found to be deflated again at the end of the game.

I haven't heard that from EPSN, Sports Illustrated, NFL.com or any other reputable sports site, and the NFL itself isn't commenting, so your uncited reference should be suspect if not bogus. According to team spokesman Stacey James, the 12 original balls were replaced with 12 backups by officials at halftime, not pumped up, and those were NOT deflated at the end of the game (or there would be more than 11). As I said, if the Patriots were cheating, then they deserve the repercussions, however this case was decided by the public the instant news broke that officials were checking the balls... based on nothing other than a vague "it is being reported."

The ball attendant is a uniformed official, and the ball boys would only have a few minutes before kickoff (or risk being spotted on the sideline) to deflate balls by exactly 2 lbs each. A pretty tricky feat if that occurred, and it'll be interesting to find out what really happened. How about we wait until actual reports from the investigators, m'kay?

Message edited by author 2015-01-21 22:19:58.
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