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DPChallenge Forums >> Tips, Tricks, and Q&A >> Software Background vs. DPC Background.
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11/13/2014 07:44:21 AM · #1
When I was doing critiques for the club I would always grab a copy of the photo and pull it into Photoshop so I could play with it when making recommendations, just so I could make sure that anything I recommended actually worked in practice as well as theory. There are some folks here who really like low key lighting, particularly with black and white, and one photo I was asked to critique was one that I had commented on during the challenge, saying that "the shadows are too dark and you lose all detail". However, when I opened the image in Photoshop, however, there were things in the shadows I couldn't see before!! I kept flipping back and forth between PS and DPC, and I even tossed the photo from Photoshop, re-saved the photo for the critique and opened it again with the same result. After a little bit of thinking it became obvious that the light gray background of the DPC is bright enough to cause the eye (my eyes at least) to lose dark details that are actually in the photo and can be seen against a darker background, particularly as vignetting fades on the edges.

Let me state emphatically that I calibrate my MacBook Pro Retina Display once a month using a Spyder4, so what I'm seeing should be solid. Since discovering this I've paid careful attention to times when I've thought shadows to be too dark on a photo, and if it's during a challenge I'll do a screen capture, crop it and then open it in Photoshop and check the difference with the darker background. More times than not there are subtle things being lost. To show this, I created an image with a circle gradient going from light in the center to dark at the edges. I then mixed it with a noise pattern in a way that allowed it to fade to black as well. I then placed it against two backgrounds, one which matches the background color here (the "Light Gray" background in Photoshop is practically the same), and the other against the Default Photoshop background color.

DPC/PS Light Gray Background:



PS Default Background:



The differences are very subtle, but if you'll look to the left and right edges of the main image you'll see that there is a bit more detail that becomes imperceptible with the light background vs. the dark background. Not a lot, but some, and if you've got a very faint bit of gray on your edges in a dark photo there's a good chance many of us will not see it when it's loaded here.

What I've learned to do when editing in Photoshop is to switch the background color before saving off the resized image for entering into this challenge so that I can see what it will look like when loaded up here (previously, I'd just loaded it to the workshop and had occasionally noticed it looking "off" so I'd go back, tweak and reload - this has ended that). It's caused me to change a few, and given the number of low key photos I just reviewed in the Church challenge where I thought "too dark" I decided it might be a good idea to pop this up in case anyone cares to do the same.

I will say that the new 1200px size has reduced this phenomenon somewhat on photos spanning the full side-to-side area, but there's still enough light gray showing that it has an impact.
11/13/2014 07:48:24 AM · #2
Having thought of this immediately after submitting, if you want you can set your PS background to the precise color of the background here (as selected using the color chooser)...



Message edited by author 2014-11-13 07:49:01.
11/13/2014 07:51:10 AM · #3
Well, the light (approx. 18%) gray background is pretty much the "industry standard" for viewing conditions for photos/printing. As you point out, changing the BG can affect the perception of the tones in the image, which is why we present all of the images for voting on the same BG.

If I'm concerned about how the image will show against the light gray I add a border ...
11/13/2014 07:53:22 AM · #4
Had an interesting conversation on this some years ago ... I'd still like to have the option.

With the additional real estate now (1200px) I've thought about using a larger border but figured that would get dinged by voters (give any excuse to mark something down and ...). :-/
11/13/2014 08:17:46 AM · #5
Borders and the like are obvious defenses against this, and to be clear I am not lodging a complaint against the background color here. I just know that in several post-critique PM conversations I've had with folks they told me they'd never considered the impact of the background color, so after almost posting 5 different "A little dark in the shadows" comments I thought it might be a topic worth raising. From experience I know that any assistance with getting your shot to show well here as you're struggling with scores is appreciated.

Message edited by author 2014-11-13 08:18:42.
11/13/2014 09:09:53 AM · #6
so how do yo account for the varying brightness level everyone has their monitors set at? that affects the shadow detail more than the DPC background color choice.

11/13/2014 10:16:51 AM · #7
Originally posted by Mike:

so how do yo account for the varying brightness level everyone has their monitors set at? that affects the shadow detail more than the DPC background color choice.


Look, this is under Tips and Tricks for a reason - to let folks know that if they're editing with a dark background then there's a chance it won't be viewed the same way on the light background here, regardless of how their monitor may or may not be calibrated. And if they hadn't considered that then here's a method by which they can see it as it appears here before they upload it. All other things being equal, of course (i.e. monitor calibration, brightness level, ambient room light, etc).

As a digital photographer I invested in equipment that enables me to have a calibrated monitor, and as semi-serious digital photographers (would they be here if they were otherwise?) I have to assume that most of the folks here do as well. My calibration process looks at ambient room light levels, and the Spyder plugged into it right now monitors changing room light so that I see things fairly consistently whenever I'm on. Not everyone goes to that length, and I'm by no means insisting that they do, or even need to. But, if they expect others to judge their photographs based on what they saw when they produced the photograph I am simply offering them food for thought regarding the impact of background color - something they may have never considered.

I'm not looking to fix the world - I'm just offering a helping hand if someone wants it.
11/13/2014 11:13:13 AM · #8
Thanks Jake. This explains why I almost always find I prefer my photos when viewed in Photoshop much more than when viewing them on the DPC site.
11/13/2014 12:49:03 PM · #9
Originally posted by P-A-U-L:

Thanks Jake. This explains why I almost always find I prefer my photos when viewed in Photoshop much more than when viewing them on the DPC site.

I use PSP X7, but I'm sure there's a similar process ... I "preview" an image in PSP as I finish up editing. You can set the preview background color (it loads the image in your selected browser) and I've set mine to this DPChallenge color.
11/13/2014 01:54:19 PM · #10
Originally posted by glad2badad:


I use PSP X7, but I'm sure there's a similar process ... I "preview" an image in PSP as I finish up editing. You can set the preview background color (it loads the image in your selected browser) and I've set mine to this DPChallenge color.


Thanks I see Jake has indicated I can change Photoshop bg colour so I will give that a try tonight.
11/13/2014 02:05:13 PM · #11
Interesting analysis, Jake. Of course, the opposite would likely be true: high key images would suffer the same "loss of detail" perception.
11/14/2014 07:15:10 AM · #12
Originally posted by tanguera:

Interesting analysis, Jake. Of course, the opposite would likely be true: high key images would suffer the same "loss of detail" perception.


I believe they would actually gain a bit of detail. A darker background while editing would emphasize the high key nature of the shot to the eye, making the bright portions seem brighter and perhaps cause the editor to pull details out a bit more than necessary (for viewing here) just to see them. When seen against the lighter background details that may be obscured the edge transitions would now appear.

Inverting the center pattern, while the impact is slightly less immediate, there are flecks at the left and right edges that are to my eye more visible against the lighter background.

DPC High Key:



PS High Key:



I believe the impact here is less obvious (it would have been better had I done a purely high key image), but for an extremely high key photo edited against the default PS background I suspect that it would seem less "extreme" against this 18% gray here. As before, knowing what frame you're going to put a photo in ultimately helps you make processing decisions.

Message edited by author 2014-11-14 07:16:13.
11/14/2014 07:22:12 AM · #13
I whited-out the center of each of the previous shots to give a greater high key effect. To my eye you can definitely see more edge detail with the lighter background in these examples.



11/14/2014 10:37:47 AM · #14
i think they look the same.
11/14/2014 10:48:27 AM · #15
lol

i saw a white sheep earlier, my flabber has never been so gasted
11/14/2014 11:13:08 AM · #16
Originally posted by Mike:

i think they look the same.


And they very well may for you. For my eyes this phenomenon is much more pronounced with low key photos and a lighter background, but everyone is different.

Again, I'm not advocating anything here, just putting out a buffet table full of food for thought. If someone sees a difference here then perhaps they need to consider an additional step in their editing process before uploading here (or similar sites).

Message edited by author 2014-11-14 11:13:59.
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