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DPChallenge Forums >> Administrator Announcements >> MODIFICATIONS TO THE ARTWORK RULE
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Showing posts 51 - 67 of 67, (reverse)
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09/19/2014 08:07:48 PM · #51
That background isn't photorealistic, so no problem.
09/19/2014 08:15:03 PM · #52
Originally posted by scalvert:

That background isn't photorealistic, so no problem.

So, could I print this and use it in a similar fashion, or not? ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1396/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_953715.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1396/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_953715.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
09/20/2014 12:46:47 AM · #53
I'm still lost... but... I'm happy that SC has a "handle" on it... and I can ask them before I submit.

I feel safe in their arms. :)
09/20/2014 10:36:42 AM · #54
I still believe there is a wording problem that causes confusion and a ground for biased interpretations of this rule.

In the segment "...artwork or used only as a minor supporting element. Using photo-realistic artwork to simulate physical objects or backgrounds that provide the primary impact of an entry will be grounds for disqualification." there is a real big gap between 'minor supporting element' and 'primary impact'.

In many cases the printed background or significant element ENHANCES the impact even though it is not the primary impact. Couple examples I would argue about on this base:

Lydias toad: ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1732/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1063500.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1732/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1063500.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
Primary impact: Dude, there is a toad riding a bicycle!!! (Would be shocking in any background) Enhancer (secondary impact): ...and it is doing so on a busy street!

Lydia's Feas entry: ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/958/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_742750.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/958/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_742750.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
Primary impact is pretty much defined by the title: "to... Good food. Good friends. Good fun.", which is all in the background (without it it is just a glass of white wine).

From the more distant past (just as example):

Scalvert's Arabian Flights ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/438/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_284583.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/438/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_284583.jpg', '/') + 1) . ':
Primary impact: Wow, that girl is on a flying carpet up above the city!!! (Without the printed background it's just a girl on a carpet looking away)

I think, it has to be decided if not just "primary impact" but "significant enhancement" is also ground for DQ and word the rule accordingly. Of course, IMHO
09/20/2014 11:08:33 AM · #55
Originally posted by redpanda:

I still believe there is a wording problem that causes confusion and a ground for biased interpretations of this rule.

In the segment "...artwork or used only as a minor supporting element. Using photo-realistic artwork to simulate physical objects or backgrounds that provide the primary impact of an entry will be grounds for disqualification." there is a real big gap between 'minor supporting element' and 'primary impact'.

In many cases the printed background or significant element ENHANCES the impact even though it is not the primary impact. Couple examples I would argue about on this base:

(snip)

I think, it has to be decided if not just "primary impact" but "significant enhancement" is also ground for DQ and word the rule accordingly. Of course, IMHO

It's better to quote the whole rule, I think:

"You may include existing artwork in your entry, but photo-realistic artwork such as printed photos, monitor images or realistic illustrations must either be clearly presented as artwork or used only as a minor supporting element. Using photo-realistic artwork to simulate physical objects or backgrounds that provide the primary impact of an entry will be grounds for disqualification."

Note the bolded part. THAT is the key part of the rule. By this wording, any photorealistic artwork that is used as a BG that fills the frame of your image is going to be DQd. It doesn't matter that the frog is more major than the street here. The SECOND part of the rule is to make sure we don't have photorealistic artwork being cut out and used as part of a photomontage, basically. Admittedly interpretation of that is going to be a little subjective, but this can't be avoided.

Message edited by author 2014-09-20 11:10:08.
09/20/2014 11:33:12 AM · #56
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by redpanda:

I still believe there is a wording problem that causes confusion and a ground for biased interpretations of this rule.

In the segment "...artwork or used only as a minor supporting element. Using photo-realistic artwork to simulate physical objects or backgrounds that provide the primary impact of an entry will be grounds for disqualification." there is a real big gap between 'minor supporting element' and 'primary impact'.

In many cases the printed background or significant element ENHANCES the impact even though it is not the primary impact. Couple examples I would argue about on this base:

(snip)

I think, it has to be decided if not just "primary impact" but "significant enhancement" is also ground for DQ and word the rule accordingly. Of course, IMHO

It's better to quote the whole rule, I think:

"You may include existing artwork in your entry, but photo-realistic artwork such as printed photos, monitor images or realistic illustrations must either be clearly presented as artwork or used only as a minor supporting element. Using photo-realistic artwork to simulate physical objects or backgrounds that provide the primary impact of an entry will be grounds for disqualification."

Note the bolded part. THAT is the key part of the rule. By this wording, any photorealistic artwork that is used as a BG that fills the frame of your image is going to be DQd. It doesn't matter that the frog is more major than the street here. The SECOND part of the rule is to make sure we don't have photorealistic artwork being cut out and used as part of a photomontage, basically. Admittedly interpretation of that is going to be a little subjective, but this can't be avoided.


Respectfully disagree: Bear, your bolded part in the the text of the rule contains an EITHER but does not contain the following OR (underlined now), which makes the rule permissive for the use of artwork as background as long as it is a "minor supporting element" on a not well defined scale. Then comes the jump, stating that that what brings to DQ is to use photo-realistic artwork to simulate...backgrounds that provide the 'primay impact' of an entry. The gap is there between 'minor supporting element' and 'primary impact'.
09/20/2014 11:39:06 AM · #57
Originally posted by redpanda:

Respectfully disagree: Bear, your bolded part in the the text of the rule contains an EITHER but does not contain the following OR (underlined now), which makes the rule permissive for the use of artwork as background as long as it is a "minor supporting element" on a not well defined scale. Then comes the jump, stating that that what brings to DQ is to use photo-realistic artwork to simulate...backgrounds that provide the 'primary impact' of an entry. The gap is there between 'minor supporting element' and 'primary impact'.

If it's a BG that fills the frame, it's not a "minor supporting element". But there's always gonna be fuzziness in the artwork rule... Let's work with this iteration for a while and see how it goes OK? It's a LOT clearer than the last one was.
09/20/2014 01:25:56 PM · #58
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by scalvert:

That background isn't photorealistic, so no problem.

So, could I print this and use it in a similar fashion, or not? ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1396/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_953715.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/1000-1999/1396/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_953715.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Assuming such a print is a full frame image of non-photorealistic artwork, I don't think there's anything in the artwork rule that would specifically preclude it, however entering a straight duplication of an existing image for a photography contest would surely be disqualified for violating the spirit of the rules. If it's not your work, and submitted as an entry without any indication of its nature, then you'd also be passing off someone else's work as your own– a serious Terms of Use violation that would likely result in banishment.

Message edited by author 2014-09-20 13:27:03.
09/20/2014 06:52:46 PM · #59
Originally posted by soup:

i understand. the principle of it is under discussion.

here is a more recent one of mine. if it weren't for the background i made. it really wouldn't be an image.

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/474/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_316337.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/474/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_316337.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

i'm using very simple examples for a reason. the glass that makes the image - is acting as a lens of sorts. yet it's the background that IS the image. i created printed and positioned that printed non-photograph to make the impact for the final photo.

Shannon,

The image I asked about is an earlier entry of mine. To me, putting a prism or something in front of it would give a similar effect to this one you responded to earlier ... unless you're saying my practically unedited image isn't "photorealistic" and thus the rule doesn't apply ... it has nothing to do with "stealing" or substituting another's work, or circumventing the time rules.

I could take the picture, print it, arrange it with the glass, and take the composite, all within the submission time-frame. Would that violate the current artwork rule?

Message edited by author 2014-09-20 18:53:52.
09/20/2014 08:59:38 PM · #60
thank you GeneralE

09/20/2014 11:31:13 PM · #61
Originally posted by GeneralE:

I could take the picture, print it, arrange it with the glass, and take the composite, all within the submission time-frame. Would that violate the current artwork rule?

Of course not. I thought you were saying use a print of that AS an entry since it's not photorealistic.
09/21/2014 09:39:53 PM · #62
I'd be interested in the take on how the rule applies to this type of photo now. Seems like this would be a DQ nowadays based on the rules. Yes / No?

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/211/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_71835.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/211/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_71835.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
09/21/2014 09:48:03 PM · #63
Originally posted by glad2badad:

I'd be interested in the take on how the rule applies to this type of photo now. Seems like this would be a DQ nowadays based on the rules. Yes / No?

' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/211/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_71835.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_challenge/0-999/211/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_71835.jpg', '/') + 1) . '

Depends on how it was made... If that's a 3D action figure type of model behind the ball, then it's still legal. "Sculptures" aren't "artwork" under the "artwork rule", basically.

Message edited by author 2014-09-21 21:52:47.
09/21/2014 10:40:27 PM · #64
This is interesting.

If I purchased someone else's artwork... and pose it in my image... portraying that as a real background, then... that's okay?

But... If I take a one of my own works of "art", taken during the challenge period... and use that as my real background, then... that's not okay?
09/21/2014 10:42:47 PM · #65
Or if... I sculpt my OWN work of art, and use it as my background... that's legal.

BUT, if I sculpt my OWN work of art, TAKE A PHOTO of it and...use it at as my background, that's illegal?

Or... am I STILL misunderstanding this artwork rule?

09/21/2014 10:43:47 PM · #66
Originally posted by Lydia:

This is interesting.

If I purchased someone else's artwork... and pose it in my image... portraying that as a real background, then... that's okay?

But... If I take a one of my own works of "art", taken during the challenge period... and use that as my real background, then... that's not okay?

It has nothing to do with who made it, Lydia.
09/21/2014 10:49:24 PM · #67
Originally posted by Lydia:

Or if... I sculpt my OWN work of art, and use it as my background... that's legal.

BUT, if I sculpt my OWN work of art, TAKE A PHOTO of it and...use it at as my background, that's illegal?

Or... am I STILL misunderstanding this artwork rule?

No, that's pretty much it. Look, there are gonna be problems wording this no matter how we do it. Bear in mind that the GOAL is to prohibit using photographic or photorealistic works of art AS your entry. So I can't take my 2011 Yosemite picture, photograph a print of it, and enter that. And I can't enter Ansel's work either. Then we have to find a way to not have people do this by using these images as *props* that constitute the real impact of their entry, as well.

Doing that, there are civilian casualties, so to speak, a minimal amount of fallback. You can make that sculpture and shoot it however you wish. You can PHOTOGRAPH that sculpture, frame the print or hang it on a wall, and it will pass muster. But you can't cut it out and glue it on cardboard and stand it up as a background object, that's crossing the line.

Best we can do for now. It's better than before. We're TRYING to be consistent. The rule hasn't actually CHANGED, we've just tried to clarify it some. So hopefully we can work with this one for a while and see how it goes?
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