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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> All the excitement of winning was quickly squashed
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06/01/2014 06:44:17 PM · #1
The flip and bend challenge was the first time I have ever created an image with that technique. I appreciate the fact that everyone thought I should take third place. What I don't like is being told that I must submit the original with in 48hours or face disqualification. All the excitement of winning third place was quickly squashed when I saw that email, I felt like I did something wrong. So the original I sent back was the photo that I downloaded from my camera to my computer. I received a second request for the original today, the first one I sent they said it had been altered by MS Photo Viewer. MS Photo Viewer is just that a photo viewer. Thank my lucky stars that I didn't format my memory card.

I started participating in DPChallenge again to improve my skills, learn from the comments posted, and to have fun. But I really felt like I was being yelled at for not sending the right original, that's all.


06/01/2014 06:58:59 PM · #2
I've never felt that way. It's simply a matter of making sure the winners were done within the rules, and you are not being singled out in any way. We all have the same rulset to comply with.

If your submitted image was recorded as modified by a piece of software (yes, even the windows file viewer), the SC cannot know for sure that it was not edited by something else as well. This is a problem with JPEG's and file viewers. If you shoot in RAW, those problems do not happen with RAW files. I have always uploaded the RAW that was copied to my hard drive (aside from minimal editing challenges), though I do keep the card for a while just in case.

Message edited by author 2014-06-01 19:00:11.
06/01/2014 07:03:41 PM · #3
By the way...what was your original photo?
06/01/2014 07:03:48 PM · #4
The validation clause has been in place for a VERY long time, and you had to acknowledge this before submitting an entry: "If requested, I will provide the unedited, original file from my digital camera within 48 hours." Any photo that has been altered by software obviously cannot be considered an unedited, original file. It's a basic requirement of participation and no reason to get upset.
06/01/2014 07:11:27 PM · #5
To ease your mind a little, the second one you sent IS a valid original :-) So now it's something you know how to do :-)
06/01/2014 07:43:47 PM · #6
Originally posted by zazuo:

I received a second request for the original today, the first one I sent they said it had been altered by MS Photo Viewer. MS Photo Viewer is just that a photo viewer. Thank my lucky stars that I didn't format my memory card.

Also, as a word of warning to everyone: you'd THINK it's "just a photo viewer" but it changes the EXIF when you use it to download images. The safest way to download and be sure you have a valid original is by drag 'n drop file transfer, using a card reader, to a file on your computer.
06/01/2014 07:48:17 PM · #7
' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' zazuo, I hope you can unsquash that feeling, now that folks have explained that everyone goes through this if the are lucky enough to land on the front page. (Places 1 through 5).

You presented a beautiful rendition of the Challenge theme and were rewarded by the voters. And you have a validation to prove it.

I do hope you'll get around to giving the rest of us some of the steps you used to get to this lovely result. And perhaps even post the original. It's always fun to see the starting point of these outstanding creations.
06/01/2014 07:55:26 PM · #8
Originally posted by sfalice:

' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21.gif', '/') + 1) . ' zazuo, I hope you can unsquash that feeling, now that folks have explained that everyone goes through this if the are lucky enough to land on the front page. (Places 1 through 5).

You presented a beautiful rendition of the Challenge theme and were rewarded by the voters. And you have a validation to prove it.

I do hope you'll get around to giving the rest of us some of the steps you used to get to this lovely result. And perhaps even post the original. It's always fun to see the starting point of these outstanding creations.

Edited to add: Ah, I see you did post your original in the comments section of your image: ' . substr('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/5000-9999/9699/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1114922.jpg', strrpos('//images.dpchallenge.com/images_portfolio/5000-9999/9699/120/Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_1114922.jpg', '/') + 1) . '
06/01/2014 07:58:48 PM · #9
Top finishers are nearly always validated. This is simply to assure that the front page pictures followed the rules - it makes no sense to honor a photo that is not compliant with the rules, preventing a photo that was created within the rule set from being on the front page.

The process is certainly not personal - just a standard practice. Having a few DQ's to my name, I understand the feeling.

The vast majority of DQ's do not involve the photographer deliberate violating the rules. No need to feel like you're being accused or blamed.

Many folks here have suffered a DQ due to not having an original or not submitting it in time.
06/01/2014 08:05:08 PM · #10
Originally posted by dtremain:

Top finishers are nearly always validated.

They ALWAYS undergo the validation process. They NEARLY always pass :-) I assume that's what you meant?
06/01/2014 08:11:03 PM · #11
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by zazuo:

I received a second request for the original today, the first one I sent they said it had been altered by MS Photo Viewer. MS Photo Viewer is just that a photo viewer. Thank my lucky stars that I didn't format my memory card.

Also, as a word of warning to everyone: you'd THINK it's "just a photo viewer" but it changes the EXIF when you use it to download images. The safest way to download and be sure you have a valid original is by drag 'n drop file transfer, using a card reader, to a file on your computer.


Hey Bear, how about Bridge? I download my pictures from a card reader right into Bridge. I've only had to have one shot validated and it passed so it seems to work, but I was wondering if you've seen problems downloading into Bridge?
06/01/2014 08:22:29 PM · #12
Originally posted by chazoe:

Hey Bear, how about Bridge? I download my pictures from a card reader right into Bridge. I've only had to have one shot validated and it passed so it seems to work, but I was wondering if you've seen problems downloading into Bridge?

I've never seen a problem with it, but I don't do it and I haven't been a watchdog very long, so... If you're downloading RAWs directly into bridge, that definitely won't be a problem.
06/01/2014 08:33:07 PM · #13
Originally posted by chazoe:

Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by zazuo:

I received a second request for the original today, the first one I sent they said it had been altered by MS Photo Viewer. MS Photo Viewer is just that a photo viewer. Thank my lucky stars that I didn't format my memory card.

Also, as a word of warning to everyone: you'd THINK it's "just a photo viewer" but it changes the EXIF when you use it to download images. The safest way to download and be sure you have a valid original is by drag 'n drop file transfer, using a card reader, to a file on your computer.


Hey Bear, how about Bridge? I download my pictures from a card reader right into Bridge. I've only had to have one shot validated and it passed so it seems to work, but I was wondering if you've seen problems downloading into Bridge?


I bring everything into bridge and have been validated many times without a problem.

zazuo, I understand how you feel about the validation -- my first validation request I was DQd, because the original had been changed by my transfer program.

I felt like I'd been accused of cheating and was very upset.

But it is simply this: the VAST majority of people follow the rules. A very few don't. So the validation process is in place. Once you're been here awhile and watch the forums, you'll realize that (as others have said), the top 5 places are validated. If there's a doubt on editing, you may get a validation request. It's all part of the process -- and the majority of DQs are simply from mistakes.

I've had 4 DQs out of 698 entries. All 4 were mistakes. The 1st was because my transfer software modified it. One was because I erased the original accidentally when erasing outtakes, and two were expert editing mistakes from not quite understanding the rules.

Neither the process or even an actual DQ is a condemnation. It's simply part of the game. :)

06/01/2014 08:40:57 PM · #14
Best advice is, keep shooting, let the feeling go. The very few times I have needed to have images validated, it has a way of making you feel like you did something wrong- when all you did was shoot a picture. I was DQ'd for not saving the original properly once, that hurts- but you move on. Start shooting again.
06/01/2014 09:07:42 PM · #15
Thanks for the responses Bear and Wendy. Hopefully I'll need another image verified someday. ;)
06/01/2014 09:30:50 PM · #16
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by chazoe:

Hey Bear, how about Bridge? I download my pictures from a card reader right into Bridge. I've only had to have one shot validated and it passed so it seems to work, but I was wondering if you've seen problems downloading into Bridge?

I've never seen a problem with it, but I don't do it and I haven't been a watchdog very long, so... If you're downloading RAWs directly into bridge, that definitely won't be a problem.


I only go from Camera to Computer folder...absolutely no other stops on the way (via cable)...and yes, I've been Dq'd for altered EXIF file...because of 2 reasons 1) downloaded through Picasa....2)JPEG (won't ever do that again!!!)
06/01/2014 10:10:31 PM · #17
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Originally posted by dtremain:

Top finishers are nearly always validated.

They ALWAYS undergo the validation process. They NEARLY always pass :-) I assume that's what you meant?

I wasn't sure they were always validated, and wanted to be accurate. I'm glad they're validated.
06/01/2014 10:14:11 PM · #18
One of my DQs was due to a glitch in my editing software that I didn't even notice. Yes, it feels like you're being accused of cheating. But many of the top participants here have at least one DQ. Like others have said - it is very seldom intentional. Most folk here understand that.
06/01/2014 10:21:28 PM · #19
I'm so confused with this. I imported my pictures from the card from auto play under picture options and then import using windows. Does this alter it or is this ok. I don't understand the correct process I guess. I am new to this and haven't had to worry about the validation process but I still want to be doing it correctly.
06/01/2014 10:22:39 PM · #20
Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

If you shoot in RAW, those problems do not happen with RAW files. I have always uploaded the RAW that was copied to my hard drive (aside from minimal editing challenges), though I do keep the card for a while just in case.


I beg to differ. I have been shooting RAW for years, have everything backed up, and yet (until I read specifics) I am screwed because I choose to convert the RAW file to DNG. I thought I might be OK if I turned on "Embed Original File" on the Lightroom import as it allows extraction of the original file, but after reading this I'm not so sure. I understand why, but it's a little ridiculous to change your workflow after years and go back to a different format because people are prone to cheating in things like this. Makes what should be a fun experience more than just a bit of a pain in the arse.
06/01/2014 11:07:02 PM · #21
Originally posted by groot3909:

I'm so confused with this. I imported my pictures from the card from auto play under picture options and then import using windows. Does this alter it or is this ok. I don't understand the correct process I guess. I am new to this and haven't had to worry about the validation process but I still want to be doing it correctly.

No, that could likely change some info embedded in the file. The best way to get the files from your camera to your computer is to simply copy them with your computer's file manager (Windows Explorer or the Macintosh Finder). This copies the files without adding any information to the EXIF.
06/01/2014 11:28:45 PM · #22
To avoid the stress of receiving an email requesting your original file, all you have to do is submit the original file right after you submit your entry in the challenge. That way, they already have it.
06/02/2014 12:43:00 AM · #23
Lighten up, Francis.
06/02/2014 03:16:18 PM · #24
Originally posted by GrillTowel:

Lighten up, Francis.

+1

Not to be mean, but "felt like being yelled at"?
...unless they emailed you IN ALL CAPS. ;-)

Congrats, Relax, Welcome.
06/02/2014 03:39:49 PM · #25
Originally posted by backdoorhippie:

Originally posted by Yo_Spiff:

If you shoot in RAW, those problems do not happen with RAW files. I have always uploaded the RAW that was copied to my hard drive (aside from minimal editing challenges), though I do keep the card for a while just in case.


I beg to differ. I have been shooting RAW for years, have everything backed up, and yet (until I read specifics) I am screwed because I choose to convert the RAW file to DNG. I thought I might be OK if I turned on "Embed Original File" on the Lightroom import as it allows extraction of the original file, but after reading this I'm not so sure. I understand why, but it's a little ridiculous to change your workflow after years and go back to a different format because people are prone to cheating in things like this. Makes what should be a fun experience more than just a bit of a pain in the arse.


If you shoot in Raw, then your original file is a Raw file, not a DNG. It's really that simple. The rules clearly state an unaltered "original".
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