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09/18/2004 03:20:15 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by micknewton:
Originally posted by pitsaman:
Idotic thinking based on idiotic well prepared missinformations,I do feel sorry for you ! :-(
No wonder your photos suck ! |
After reading several of your other thoughtless and rude posts (too many actually), this is just about what I would expect from you--childish name calling.
I'm actually glad that you hate my photos Kosta. It lets me know that I'm doing something right. :) |
Maybe too much FOXNEWS and not enough Travel Channel :-)
Message edited by author 2004-09-18 15:20:31. |
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09/18/2004 03:35:54 PM · #27 |
| I was well aware of the human rights issues in Iraq... which is why the people there have my compassion. You however, seem to think they are just cowardly... which is not very generous bearing in mind the long list of things you mentioned that held them in oppression. But I think you are deluding yourself if you think that is why we held a war there. |
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09/19/2004 01:59:31 AM · #28 |
Originally posted by heida:
A good way to assist a nation in need is to shoot em all down yeah! :P |
and what if u r the citizen of that nation? |
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09/19/2004 10:35:29 AM · #29 |
Originally posted by jadin:
Originally posted by heida:
A good way to assist a nation in need is to shoot em all down yeah! :P |
With Depleted Uranium shells! So that their children are born all messed up! |
While the photos on your site are horrific, what evidence can you offer that the disfigurations shown are caused by depleted uranium, other than your claim that they are? For all I know they are photos of children disfigured by Thalidomide.
Ron |
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09/20/2004 01:05:07 AM · #30 |
McCain: Bush not straight enough on Iraq
McCain: Bush not straight enough on Iraq
Senators of both parties criticize his picture of conditions there
Sunday, September 19, 2004 Posted: 2246 GMT (0646 HKT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Several Republicans and Democrats took President Bush to task on Sunday's talk shows over his repeated assertions that all is well in Iraq.
Republican Sen. John McCain of Arizona said Bush was not being "as straight as maybe we'd like to see" with the American people about Iraq.
McCain, a member of the Senate Armed Services Committee, said on "Fox News Sunday" that it was "a serious mistake" not to have had enough troops in place "after the initial successes" and that the mistake had led to "very, very significant" difficulties.
"I think every day that goes by that we don't remove these sanctuaries in Falluja and other places in the Sunni Triangle, the more expensive it's going to be at the time we take this out," McCain said.
He said he "would never have allowed the sanctuaries to start with."
"In the Falluja issue, our general in Baghdad said we were going to go in and capture or kill those who were responsible for the deaths of Americans," McCain said.
"And we went in, and then we pulled out. As Napoleon said, if you say you're going to take Vienna, you take Vienna."
McCain, who has campaigned for Bush's re-election, acknowledged that the incumbent's rosy view of Iraq as "on the path of stability and democracy" may not be accurate, "although I've been with him when he has told audiences that this is a very tough struggle that we're in."
Bush said in an interview Saturday that Iraq is "defying the dire predictions of a lot of people by moving toward democracy." (Full story)
McCain, who spent five years as a prisoner of war in Vietnam after his Navy plane was shot down, hinted that Bush might be avoiding the specter of putting more American lives at risk.
"Airstrikes don't do it; artillery doesn't do it," he said. "Boots on the ground do it. That's one of the fundamentals of warfare."
"You've got to send our troops in there on the ground," he said. "And that, of course, means the most difficult kind of fighting.
"I think the president is being clear. I would like to see him more clear, because I believe the American people, the majority of them, know what's at stake and will support this effort."
McCain called for an increase in the Army of about 70,000 soldiers and for 20,000 to 25,000 more Marines.
"The reality," he said, "[is] that we're going to be there for a long time -- which, by the way, is not terrible if you keep the casualties down."
Democratic Sen. Carl Levin of Michigan said on CNN's "Late Edition" that he doubted the administration would make any of the tough decisions until after the November election.
"And it's too bad, because it's most important that this administration listen to some of even its Republican critics, which is that we've got a significantly worsening situation in Iraq," said Levin, the ranking Democrat on the Armed Services Committee.
Speaking on CBS's "Face the Nation," Jon Kyl, Arizona's junior senator -- also a Republican -- said "hand-wringing" about the situation in Iraq would not win the war.
"War is tough, and there are casualties. And just before victory, sometimes, it gets most violent," said Kyl, chairman of the subcommittee on terrorism, technology and homeland security of the Judiciary Committee.
Appearing on the same program, Sen. Chuck Hagel of Nebraska, a fellow Republican, disagreed with Kyl that the United States was anywhere near victory.
"I don't think we're winning. In all due respect to my friend Jon Kyl, the term 'hand-wringing' is a little misplaced here," Hagel said.
"The fact is, a crisp, sharp analysis of our policies are required. We didn't do that in Vietnam, and we saw 11 years of casualties mount to the point where we finally lost.
"The fact is, we're in trouble. We're in deep trouble in Iraq," said Hagel, a member of the Senate Foreign Relations and Intelligence committees.
Republican Sen. Lindsey Graham of South Carolina, who has traveled to Iraq twice and is a member of the Armed Services Committee, said he doesn't "buy that" when told enough troops are in Iraq to do the job.
"There's a rhyme or reason to what's happening here," he said on CNN's "Late Edition." "They're attacking police stations. They're attacking people who want to join the army. They're trying to kill people who want to be part of a democratic government."
On ABC's "This Week," Republican Sen. Richard Lugar of Indiana and Democratic Sen. Joseph Biden of Delaware both had critical words for the administration's handling of Iraq.
"No. 1, on the police training, we've wasted 17 months," Biden said. "We should be using some imagination. Pick out the 500 most likely leaders in the police force, put them on a 747, fly them to Bonn, Germany, or to Berlin, and tell them to train them and train them as leaders, so they're paramilitary police.
"The president's going to the United Nations [Tuesday]," he said. "You know what we list as our priorities for the United Nations General Assembly? Dealing with sex trade, which is important. Dealing with cloning. Dealing with spread of democracy.
"Not one word of Korea. Not one word with regard to Iraq. Not one word with regard to Iran. It's like Wonderland," said Biden, the ranking Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee.
Lugar, who is chairman of the Foreign Relations Committee, said "the incompetence in the administration" led to only $1 billion spent out of $18 billion appropriated last year for reconstruction efforts.
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09/20/2004 07:24:05 AM · #31 |
| Check out Bloggers 4 Freedom for more accurate news directly from Iraq - both from our soldiers and from Iraqi Citizens themselves. |
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09/27/2004 01:21:22 PM · #32 |
Misleading (lying) again; Mr Bush trying to pump sunshine up everyones ass about Iraq. Key Bush assertions about Iraq in dispute
The real numbers here.
I also point to my above post on McCain for those who have not read it. |
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09/28/2004 12:59:06 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Misleading (lying) again; Mr Bush trying to pump sunshine up everyones ass about Iraq. Key Bush assertions about Iraq in dispute
The real numbers here.
I also point to my above post on McCain for those who have not read it. |
No comments? |
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09/28/2004 01:26:04 PM · #34 |
While this thread seems to have returned to topic and has some degree of civility to it, I would like to remind participants to treat eachother with respect. If you are going to discuss politics, discuss politics. If you are going to discuss photography, discuss photography. There is nom need to bash someone's photographic endeavors or taste because you disagree with them politically. That is being silly. 'nuf said?
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09/29/2004 02:01:13 PM · #35 |
Prewar intel predicted insurgency
Originally posted by CNN article:
From David Ensor
CNN National Security Correspondent
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 Posted: 4:45 AM EDT (0845 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Two classified reports prepared for President Bush two months before the Iraq invasion warned the war could prompt an insurgency in which rogue elements from Saddam Hussein's government would work with existing terrorist groups, sources said.
The January 2003 reports from the National Intelligence Council (NIC) said an invasion would increase support for hard-line politicized Islam and result in a divided Iraqi society prone to violent conflict, the sources said Tuesday.
Disclosure of the reports just weeks before the presidential election could create political problems for the White House. The reports were prepared by the same unit that prepared a gloomy national intelligence estimate in July about prospects for Iraq.
Details of their pessimistic analysis were first reported in The New York Times.
The NIC is a quasi-independent think tank headquartered at the CIA. It includes outside academics and U.S. intelligence professionals from throughout government. Its reports are coordinated with all 15 U.S. intelligence agencies, including the Defense Intelligence Agency.
Asked about the gloomy July national intelligence estimate about prospects for Iraq, Bush first said the authors were "guessing," but later corrected himself, calling it an "estimate." |
Did he just flip flop?
Seriously though, if only the man would have taken time to read the many reports that have come into light now that were around before the war, maybe it wouldnt have happend.
Or, he could have just listened to dear ol' dad:
Originally posted by George Bush Sr.:
To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us and make a broken tyrant into a latter-day hero ... assigning young soldiers to a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning them to fight in what would be an un-winnable urban guerilla war. It could only plunge that part of the world into even greater instability.
George Bush Sr. in A World Transformed, 1998 |
Message edited by author 2004-09-29 14:01:52. |
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09/29/2004 02:40:35 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Misleading (lying) again; Mr Bush trying to pump sunshine up everyones ass about Iraq. Key Bush assertions about Iraq in dispute
The real numbers here.
I also point to my above post on McCain for those who have not read it. |
Thanks for posting the original report. I hate reading pull quotes and analysis from reports and sources without being able to actually look at the source and see everything in context.
This is the perfect example. I read through most of the report (skimmed a few areas about the economic details), and was amazed throughout at how anyone could accept this report as credible and still draw a pessimistic conclusion about conditions there. I thought that, at the very least, even if the numbers about the police and armed forces went against what Bush stated, at least you have to conclude that overall things are looking very good there.
Then I got to the police and armed forces number. This is key: police and armed forces. At first, my eyes were drawn to the first columns of the Police chart, particulary the 101,831 on duty police. Matches Bush's number. Then I saw the trained vs. untrained numbers. "Damn, lots of them are untrained" I thought. You guys almost had me. I checked the charts two or three times. Most of numbers are up, if not where everyone would like them to be. That's got to be good. I searched for the quote - maybe Bush was misquoted or taken out of context. I found what appears to be the most complete (hopefully accurate) quote:
"nearly 100,000 fully trained and equipped Iraqi soldiers, police officers, and other security personnel are working today"
No way of taking that out of context - he did, in fact, say "fully trained and equiped".
Then it clicked. "...soldiers, police officers, and other security personnel...", as in police and armed forces. Looking at the total number trained police (49,691) and armed forces (46,990) personnel, you come out to 96,681, or "nearly 100,000 fully trained and equipped Iraqi soldiers, police officers, and other security personnel".
(The "equiped" part is more difficult to evaluate - there are over 160,000 weapons total, though far fewer vehicles, radios and body armor, as would generally be expected. Whether that constitutes fully equiped you may argue, but its quibling to me.)
Thanks, MadMordegan, for providing the data that proves the president was correct and accurate. I hope you join me in spreading this proper analysis to all those sites and news outlets that are attempting to spin this incorrectly. :) |
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09/29/2004 02:54:27 PM · #37 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Prewar intel predicted insurgency
Originally posted by CNN article:
From David Ensor
CNN National Security Correspondent
Wednesday, September 29, 2004 Posted: 4:45 AM EDT (0845 GMT)
WASHINGTON (CNN) -- Two classified reports prepared for President Bush two months before the Iraq invasion warned the war could prompt an insurgency in which rogue elements from Saddam Hussein's government would work with existing terrorist groups, sources said.
The January 2003 reports from the National Intelligence Council (NIC) said an invasion would increase support for hard-line politicized Islam and result in a divided Iraqi society prone to violent conflict, the sources said Tuesday.
Disclosure of the reports just weeks before the presidential election could create political problems for the White House. The reports were prepared by the same unit that prepared a gloomy national intelligence estimate in July about prospects for Iraq.
Details of their pessimistic analysis were first reported in The New York Times.
The NIC is a quasi-independent think tank headquartered at the CIA. It includes outside academics and U.S. intelligence professionals from throughout government. Its reports are coordinated with all 15 U.S. intelligence agencies, including the Defense Intelligence Agency.
Asked about the gloomy July national intelligence estimate about prospects for Iraq, Bush first said the authors were "guessing," but later corrected himself, calling it an "estimate." |
Did he just flip flop?
Seriously though, if only the man would have taken time to read the many reports that have come into light now that were around before the war, maybe it wouldnt have happend.
Or, he could have just listened to dear ol' dad:
Originally posted by George Bush Sr.:
To occupy Iraq would instantly shatter our coalition, turning the whole Arab world against us and make a broken tyrant into a latter-day hero ... assigning young soldiers to a fruitless hunt for a securely entrenched dictator and condemning them to fight in what would be an un-winnable urban guerilla war. It could only plunge that part of the world into even greater instability.
George Bush Sr. in A World Transformed, 1998 |
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Any links to the original report? My understanding is that the report is being "pull quoted" (my term), as those seeking to oust the president often do, and that this "prediction" (were they at full psychic force that day?) was one of several estimates (a polite word for a guess) of what might happen after we liberated Iraq.
I'd definitely be interested in seeing the original report, and not relying on CNN's analysis. |
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09/30/2004 05:03:16 AM · #38 |
Originally posted by micknewton:
Personally, I think that it really is a shame that good people, Americans and others, are loosing their lives in Iraq. The people of Iraq simply aren’t worth it. They’re a bunch of gutless, cowardly religious fanatics that won’t lift a hand to help themselves. But, they’re quite willing to die in order to kill innocent Americans, even women and children. They glorify brutal, sadistic, psychopathic leaders, even when those leaders rape, torture, and murder their own people.
To hell with spending billions of dollars to rebuild their country. We should pull all of our people out and leave them to rot. Then, at the first sign of any hostility or terrorist activity we should bomb the crap out of them. We should also assassinate every known terrorist and terrorist leader that we can find, no matter where the cowardly bastards are hiding.
I'm tired of hearing about good people being killed in that shit-hole of a country. They just aren’t worth it. |
Are you freaking kidding??!!? Jesus, its because of opinions like this that there are terrorists in the first place! Wake up man, open your eyes.
I like the way you say: "...it really is a shame that good people, Americans and others..." and "...The people of Iraq simply aren’t worth it. They’re a bunch of gutless, cowardly religious fanatics...." Do you know anyone from Iraq?? Doubt it, probably only seen them on your "un-bias" TV. As for the "good" people.... Some of the biggest scum in our world are "Americans and others."
Where you from? If its America (which seems most likely to me) have you even left your state before?? |
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09/30/2004 05:19:34 AM · #39 |
| Watch the movie "Fahrenheit 9/11" and all will be revealed.... |
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09/30/2004 01:04:01 PM · #40 |
Originally posted by divernick:
Watch the movie "Fahrenheit 9/11" and all will be revealed.... |
It comes out on DVD next Tuesday for those waiting. |
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09/30/2004 01:46:54 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Originally posted by divernick:
Watch the movie "Fahrenheit 9/11" and all will be revealed.... |
It comes out on DVD next Tuesday for those waiting. |
There's another movie coming out on DVD next Tuesday, too - FarenHYPE 9/11 ( the rebuttal ). Be sure to pick up one of each. |
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09/30/2004 02:18:36 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by RonB:
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Originally posted by divernick:
Watch the movie "Fahrenheit 9/11" and all will be revealed.... |
It comes out on DVD next Tuesday for those waiting. |
There's another movie coming out on DVD next Tuesday, too - FarenHYPE 9/11 ( the rebuttal ). Be sure to pick up one of each. |
Oh ya, that aught to be good. If the trailer is any indication of what the substance of the movie is, well be in for a 90 minute GOP ad.
Got to love Zell Miller "I want somebody who can see black and white" and "here is a man who says the United States has spread misery around the world.... come on."
Nice..
Message edited by author 2004-09-30 14:19:01. |
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09/30/2004 06:41:51 PM · #43 |
Bagdad today, 34 children die in Baghdad car bombings.
Rumsfeld: Violence in Iraq 'getting worse'
Thursday, September 30, 2004 Posted: 1:46 PM EDT (1746 GMT)
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A series of car bomb attacks in Baghdad on Thursday killed 34 children at a ceremony where candy was being given away, the Iraqi Ministry of Health said. Continue reading... |
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09/30/2004 08:12:10 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Bagdad today, 34 children die in Baghdad car bombings.
Rumsfeld: Violence in Iraq 'getting worse'
Thursday, September 30, 2004 Posted: 1:46 PM EDT (1746 GMT)
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A series of car bomb attacks in Baghdad on Thursday killed 34 children at a ceremony where candy was being given away, the Iraqi Ministry of Health said. Continue reading... |
You wouldn't be expoiting this tragedy for political purposes, would you? |
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09/30/2004 08:18:22 PM · #45 |
Originally posted by ScottK:
Originally posted by MadMordegon:
Bagdad today, 34 children die in Baghdad car bombings.
Rumsfeld: Violence in Iraq 'getting worse'
Thursday, September 30, 2004 Posted: 1:46 PM EDT (1746 GMT)
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- A series of car bomb attacks in Baghdad on Thursday killed 34 children at a ceremony where candy was being given away, the Iraqi Ministry of Health said. Continue reading... |
You wouldn't be expoiting this tragedy for political purposes, would you? |
Just keeping people up to date on whats happening in Iraq. This is war; war is horrible and sad. |
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09/30/2004 08:28:47 PM · #46 |
| Every half hour someone dies due to a drunk driver. That's 48 per day every day of the year. |
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10/04/2004 09:26:57 AM · #47 |
At least 16 dead in Baghdad blasts
Monday, October 4, 2004 Posted: 1248 GMT (2048 HKT)
BAGHDAD, Iraq (CNN) -- Two car bomb explosions have rocked central Baghdad, killing at least 16 people and wounding at least 85 others, the Iraqi Health Ministry said. Continue reading... |
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10/05/2004 10:35:19 AM · #48 |
Why We Cannot Win. by Al Lorentz
(This writer is currently facing a possible 20 years in jail for writing this article.) |
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10/05/2004 12:06:30 PM · #49 |
I don't use to get into "flame wars", but I will post my opinion, and hope no one feels ofended... if possible.
All this look very simple to me: Money moves the world.
Sadam may be is a monster, but haven't done nothing to US people, so it is not revenge, is just money.... and BTW, death penalty is used regulary on the US, even with children... so claiming about human rights sound just inaceptable to me!
Sadam doesn't have massive destruction weapons, and is not hidding al quaeda, so it is not a "cleaning the world" matter, it is just money. And BTW, the US have made and is still making, and have stored nuclear bombs, chemical and bio weapons, and everything you could think off, so claiming "they have dangerous weapons" is just inaceptable to me.
Irak invasion was planned long before 11/9 (may be CNN and ABC don't speak of this on the US, but they don't speak on things the gov don't want they, isn't it?), so it was not for revenge, just for money.
Many other nations are governed by devils, or have great human rights problems, or have nuclear weapons ready to launch, but US do nothing, only in Irak, where loads of petrol are awaiting... is not a matter of "doing the right thing", it is just money.
Well, I don't wat to go on, i will not convince anyone, and you american citizens are not the problem, you are good people, bad missinforming may be (ask around how many have seen Farenheit 9/11, may be 5%? less? And ask your self why TVs don't broadcast all the information about war, just what is not censured by gov -remember seeing any dead american on TV? I do on my spanish TV news, why don't you? Don't sound like the "country of the liberty" to me), but your gov, directed by a small group of people waitting to earn A LOT OF MILLIONS DOLLARS in that war, have taken you into this, and you pay with lifes and with a LOT of taxes, and the rest of the world blame you about all that mess that you are creating, and they are right, not you... but pitty of you and pitty of the rest of the world!
Your system is a bad one, a few people with money and waiting to earn even more, are the ones that really govern you, and take you all to that war because of profits, their profits, aven if it cost lifes (in both sides, but more in the "other" side, remember), a lot of money (more than what they earn, but they don't pay the bill, you do), and desestabilices the entire world... they just care about their money.
A terrible simple matter of making money. |
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10/05/2004 12:47:29 PM · #50 |
Ops! I forgot... read about the US army researching in antimater bombs (yes, like in Star Trek) here:
www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?file=/c/a/2004/10/04/MNGM393GPK1.DTL
They really arte massive destruction weapons, and is on your backyard, so why don't you attack and destroy your self? The bad logic used to attack Irak is dangerous when used ina more general context... more if that context includes the USA!
Message edited by author 2004-10-05 12:48:12. |
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