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 05/01/2014 08:48:06 AM · #51
Was the April Fool challenge the first time we saw this extra rule or can someone point me to an earlier one?
05/01/2014 08:52:55 AM · #52
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
Was the April Fool challenge the first time we saw this extra rule or can someone point me to an earlier one?


The 1 Second Exposure challenge had it.
 05/01/2014 09:02:03 AM · #53
Originally posted by Cuttooth:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
Was the April Fool challenge the first time we saw this extra rule or can someone point me to an earlier one?


The 1 Second Exposure challenge had it.

Not the same. That could be validated decisively with the EXIF data -- just like capture dates.
 05/01/2014 09:08:31 AM · #54
yeah, that's true.
 05/01/2014 09:21:20 AM · #55
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
Was the April Fool challenge the first time we saw this extra rule or can someone point me to an earlier one?

Vanish in 2007
 05/01/2014 09:50:35 AM · #56
Originally posted by skewsme:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
Was the April Fool challenge the first time we saw this extra rule or can someone point me to an earlier one?

Vanish in 2007


link please? I can't find it.
 05/01/2014 09:55:51 AM · #57
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
Originally posted by skewsme:
Originally posted by PennyStreet:
Was the April Fool challenge the first time we saw this extra rule or can someone point me to an earlier one?

Vanish in 2007


link please? I can't find it.


Vanish
 05/01/2014 10:09:43 AM · #58
Originally posted by tome:
I'm usually quiet on these matters but questions keep popping :)
1. Why two DQ limitations over a short period of time? Were there complaints?
2. How will you validate? How will you validate abstract images?

1. The "April Fools" challenge was following a tradition of list challenges where not fulfilling the list precisely was an automatic DQ. It'd been a while since we had one, but people used to agree they were a lot of fun. THIS one is set up like this to make an explicit restriction enforceable. We're danged if we do and danged if we don't, it seems to me: there is ample precedent for people getting bent out of shape at us for NOT using our powers to DQ people who don't follow the description. Several challenges where that has happened are mentioned earlier in this thread.
2. We'll validate the same way we always do; if there's any question, we'll ask for the originals. I'm not sure why it would be any more difficult with an "abstract" image.

That said, it's almost as if folks are ASSUMING there will be a bunch of "reflected symmetry" that we're going to have to DQ. Why? I'd have thought that the presence of the flag will be sufficient to get everyone to read the special condition, and we'll have no need to go any further.
 05/01/2014 10:26:59 AM · #59
Anarchists Untie! (that might have been unite, if we could'a agreed on the speling)
 05/01/2014 11:06:43 AM · #60
Why is there a sudden need for this enforcement? We have self-policed for as long as I've been here, and while there have been occasional instances of questionable entries taking top honors, for the most part I think it stays pretty fair. Especially considering the nature of these challenges!!!

This image of mine, which admittedly did not do well, was a complete fakery. Did I cheat? Or did I do the best I could under the circumstances? What if someone is wheelchair-bound, or otherwise unable to get to or create the thing that needs photographing?

There is a lot of value in problem-solving. Isn't that the main purpose of this site? Aren't we here to learn how to do stuff, especially out of our comfort zone? Sometimes you have to get creative to have an entry which visually meets the challenge. Or maybe we should not have challenges that are so specific that half our members can't possibly enter, like the recent lunar eclipse which was completely US-centric. If someone in Africa or Asia or Europe wanted to enter, why shouldn't they? If they create an image within the rule set, they have the right to do that.

Telling someone they shouldn't enter if they don't have access to the specific "something" in a challenge description is FAR worse than someone bending the rules (or creatively interpreting/shooting them) beyond the comfort of a few.
 05/01/2014 11:06:46 AM · #61
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
That said, it's almost as if folks are ASSUMING there will be a bunch of "reflected symmetry" that we're going to have to DQ. Why? I'd have thought that the presence of the flag will be sufficient to get everyone to read the special condition, and we'll have no need to go any further.

Who said that? You are the ones setting the rules to prevent certain behavior - which also means grounds for DQ. I just asked about the reasoning, thanks!
 05/01/2014 11:07:10 AM · #62
Originally posted by dtremain:
Anarchists Untie! (that might have been unite, if we could'a agreed on the speling)


I believe it's Dyslexics Untie!
 05/01/2014 11:09:01 AM · #63
Originally posted by jagar:
An interesting read about left-right dimension in general thinking.

If the rules are there then I'll apply them to myself, I do though get a kick out of the out of the box or so called DNMC entries and I often find their creativity exhilarating.


An excellent article. Me thinks it explains some things. Thanks.
 05/01/2014 11:24:24 AM · #64
All I really want to know is what is the advantage to issuing a DQ versus letting the voters DNMC it down the toilet (as per usual). Who does it benefit and how? That's all.
05/01/2014 11:47:28 AM · #65
In support of the extra rule, I found shooting for this challenge to be more challenging and vastly more interesting. It got me out shooting to find symmetry w/o reflection. It opened my eyes to the occurrence of the phenomenon. I found an interesting subject. I don't have a great photo, but it is fascinating to me. It won't score well, but it has provided a sense of accomplishment for me.
 05/01/2014 12:16:37 PM · #66
Originally posted by bvy:
All I really want to know is what is the advantage to issuing a DQ versus letting the voters DNMC it down the toilet (as per usual). Who does it benefit and how? That's all.

No different than the April Fool's list challenges. The voters could smack down missing objects there, too, and not one person complained about it. This particular extra rule has no practical impact unless you were planning to intentionally disregard the challenge anyway, in which case negative consequences should be expected.
 05/01/2014 12:57:19 PM · #67
ooh, "negative consequences."
 05/01/2014 01:09:36 PM · #68
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by bvy:
All I really want to know is what is the advantage to issuing a DQ versus letting the voters DNMC it down the toilet (as per usual). Who does it benefit and how? That's all.

No different than the April Fool's list challenges. The voters could smack down missing objects there, too, and not one person complained about it. This particular extra rule has no practical impact unless you were planning to intentionally disregard the challenge anyway, in which case negative consequences should be expected.


I'm complaining about it! I was the one who got DQd for it. I quite honestly didn't even notice the extra rule, but even when I did I thought it was a joke! And then I got the DQ notice. You think I did it on purpose?

Do we really want to encourage the DQ police (voters who are so intent on looking for something wrong) by giving them even more of a reason to look for DNMC? I guess I just view the whole thing differently... when I see an image in a challenge that makes me question why it's there, I want to know more... why did that person enter this... how did that photographer relate this image to the challenge?
As we've seen multiple times in challenge description threads.. the color RED is different to you than it is to me anyway. Are you sure you will be able to tell a reflection when you see one?

05/01/2014 03:15:46 PM · #69
"Extra Rules: Submissions using reflective surfaces of any kind to attain symmetry will be disqualified."

Be careful anything shot with a DSLR will be disqualified! Sorry couldn't resist.

Message edited by author 2014-05-01 15:16:45.
 05/01/2014 03:22:24 PM · #70
LOL! I so wish we had "like" buttons
Good one!

I am glad its not a color challenge cause I am color blind a bit

Message edited by author 2014-05-01 15:24:26.
 05/01/2014 04:27:06 PM · #71
Originally posted by insteps:
"Extra Rules: Submissions using reflective surfaces of any kind to attain symmetry will be disqualified."

Be careful anything shot with a DSLR will be disqualified! Sorry couldn't resist.

Actually, no... The mirror's not in play when the image is captured, it flips up out of the way :-)
 05/01/2014 04:37:53 PM · #72
I'm actually in a state of befuddled astonishment now... The goal, the PURPOSE, of the challenge, the CHALLENGE of the challenge if you will, is to capture symmetry without resorting to reflections. And now, apparently, at least SOME of us are leaning towards trying to FOOL the voters and/or SC by incorporating indistinguishable reflections just because a flag was put in place making the "no reflection" criterion mandatory rather than advisory? Am I the only one who thinks this is silly?

I'd also like to remind everyone that there were THREE disqualified images in the April Fool challenge and that TWO of the "offenders" are taking it in good spirits. After all, we can't even ENTER a challenge in DPC without checking a box that affirms that we have followed the relevant ruleset, "taking into account any extra rules listed above." "I didn't notice the extra rule" is about on a par with homework-eating dogs, if you ask me.

Message edited by author 2014-05-01 16:38:49.
 05/01/2014 04:44:24 PM · #73
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I'm actually in a state of befuddled astonishment now... The goal, the PURPOSE, of the challenge, the CHALLENGE of the challenge if you will, is to capture symmetry without resorting to reflections. And now, apparently, at least SOME of us are leaning towards trying to FOOL the voters and/or SC by incorporating indistinguishable reflections just because a flag was put in place making the "no reflection" criterion mandatory rather than advisory? Am I the only one who thinks this is silly?

I'd also like to remind everyone that there were THREE disqualified images in the April Fool challenge and that TWO of the "offenders" are taking it in good spirits. After all, we can't even ENTER a challenge in DPC without checking a box that affirms that we have followed the relevant ruleset, "taking into account any extra rules listed above." "I didn't notice the extra rule" is about on a par with homework-eating dogs, if you ask me.


I'm with you bear....well said!

just want to add if don't like the rules.......don't enter the challenge, it's that simple.
 05/01/2014 04:53:35 PM · #74
Why people come to a rules-based photo challenge and then kvetch about the rules being enforced is just beyond me....

05/01/2014 04:56:03 PM · #75
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
I'm actually in a state of befuddled astonishment now... The goal, the PURPOSE, of the challenge, the CHALLENGE of the challenge if you will, is to capture symmetry without resorting to reflections. And now, apparently, at least SOME of us are leaning towards trying to FOOL the voters and/or SC by incorporating indistinguishable reflections just because a flag was put in place making the "no reflection" criterion mandatory rather than advisory? Am I the only one who thinks this is silly?

I think it's silly. And I think it's precisely why we don't need the Extra Rule. Let the voters decide. It's a model that didn't need fixing.
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