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04/30/2014 01:15:17 PM · #26 |
Originally posted by tnun:
it totally defeats me how anyone is harmed when someone wins a ribbon by some sort of cheating. except that someone. if, as is said, the challenge is to shoot within the confines, that is the beauty in itself. else the implication is that if we thought we could get a ribbon by faking the challenge we would do so.
think about what that says. |
Indeed |
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04/30/2014 03:28:35 PM · #27 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by ubique:
DNMC is a leaden, anti-creative judgement; the first and last refuge of the dull. It should be left where it can't do any harm ... In the hands of those with tightly pursed narrow lips and no curiosity at all. |
That's what Free Studies are for. "Artistic license" is the first and last refuge of those who lack the creativity to express a concept within the loose confines of a topic, which is exactly what makes it a challenge. |
Tedious BS, as ever.
My problem with "DNMC" is that when ejaculated by a voter, it's a declaration of what's in that voter's mind, or more accurately, what isn't. Whereas what the voter cannot possibly know is what was in the photographer's mind, and that's what really matters. I don't mind that the voter can't see it; only that the voter doesn't care to even try. To declare something as "DNMC" is to nail the ignorant-and-proud-of-it flag to your mast.
 GeneralE once mildly reprimanded me for making a categorical judgement about something. He invited me to soften my view by sprinkling it with IMHO modifiers. But the DNMC drones never do that. They are effectively saying, "I can't see it, ergo it must be wrong." |
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04/30/2014 03:40:00 PM · #28 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by ubique:
DNMC is a leaden, anti-creative judgement; the first and last refuge of the dull. It should be left where it can't do any harm ... In the hands of those with tightly pursed narrow lips and no curiosity at all. |
That's what Free Studies are for. "Artistic license" is the first and last refuge of those who lack the creativity to express a concept within the loose confines of a topic, which is exactly what makes it a challenge. |
Tedious BS, as ever.
My problem with "DNMC" is that when ejaculated by a voter, it's a declaration of what's in that voter's mind, or more accurately, what isn't. Whereas what the voter cannot possibly know is what was in the photographer's mind, and that's what really matters. I don't mind that the voter can't see it; only that the voter doesn't care to even try. To declare something as "DNMC" is to nail the ignorant-and-proud-of-it flag to your mast.
GeneralE once mildly reprimanded me for making a categorical judgement about something. He invited me to soften my view by sprinkling it with IMHO modifiers. But the DNMC drones never do that. They are effectively saying, "I can't see it, ergo it must be wrong." |
But, is it the artist who defines the work, or is it the viewer who defines it?
I find it funny that you argue that there is no such thing as a DNMC, as though you really believe that every entry has been created to suit the challenge topic - no offense, but that strikes me as rather myopic.
As for your assertion that we should preface everything with IMHO, can you get any more silly Paul? OF COURSE it's their opinion, hell, everything about this entire thing is at least somewhat, if not wholly, subjective in nature... To criticize everyone who's ever told someone that they didn't find the image to meet the challenge by calling them the variety of things you've called them seems really quite inappropriate. Think about it.
Message edited by author 2014-04-30 15:43:46. |
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04/30/2014 03:50:32 PM · #29 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Whereas what the voter cannot possibly know is what was in the photographer's mind, and that's what really matters. I don't mind that the voter can't see it; only that the voter doesn't care to even try. To declare something as "DNMC" is to nail the ignorant-and-proud-of-it flag to your mast. |
Your stance is at least as hard as that which you deride, particularly since the only photographer's mind you can know is your own. It is precisely BECAUSE we can't read minds that the photographer's intent only matters to the degree that he or she can successfully communicate it to others. A DNMC can just as easily indicate a failure in that regard rather than any lack of voter effort or open-mindedness. To declare all DNMC votes as ignorance without any attempt to understand what was in the voter's mind is naked hypocrisy. You are literally labeling the opinion as DNMC!
Message edited by author 2014-04-30 15:52:21. |
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04/30/2014 03:52:58 PM · #30 |
Originally posted by ubique:
GeneralE once mildly reprimanded me for making a categorical judgement about something. He invited me to soften my view by sprinkling it with IMHO modifiers. But the DNMC drones never do that. They are effectively saying, "I can't see it, ergo it must be wrong." |
Talk about bullshit. How about "I can't see it, ergo I am giving it a low score." There is no right or wrong. |
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04/30/2014 04:04:42 PM · #31 |
Originally posted by ubique:
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by ubique:
DNMC is a leaden, anti-creative judgement; the first and last refuge of the dull. It should be left where it can't do any harm ... In the hands of those with tightly pursed narrow lips and no curiosity at all. |
That's what Free Studies are for. "Artistic license" is the first and last refuge of those who lack the creativity to express a concept within the loose confines of a topic, which is exactly what makes it a challenge. |
Tedious BS, as ever.
My problem with "DNMC" is that when ejaculated by a voter, it's a declaration of what's in that voter's mind, or more accurately, what isn't. Whereas what the voter cannot possibly know is what was in the photographer's mind, and that's what really matters. I don't mind that the voter can't see it; only that the voter doesn't care to even try. To declare something as "DNMC" is to nail the ignorant-and-proud-of-it flag to your mast.
GeneralE once mildly reprimanded me for making a categorical judgement about something. He invited me to soften my view by sprinkling it with IMHO modifiers. But the DNMC drones never do that. They are effectively saying, "I can't see it, ergo it must be wrong." |
DPC is and always has been about pleasing the voter. That's why we have voters. It's not an art gallery. |
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04/30/2014 04:28:52 PM · #32 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
.......DPC is all about *challenges*: a set of parameters is posted and we are asked to work within those parameters to create our image...... |
Like entering a water drop in a portrait challenge? |
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04/30/2014 04:31:52 PM · #33 |
Originally posted by ubique:
DNMC is a leaden, anti-creative judgement; the first and last refuge of the dull. It should be left where it can't do any harm ... In the hands of those with tightly pursed narrow lips and no curiosity at all. |
thank you. |
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04/30/2014 04:47:19 PM · #34 |
I'm not sure about the DNMC DQ. Seems a little over reaching to me. I assume we can all understand challenge instructions. If not, there are many helpful members who will give you their opinion. Why not just let the members decide the outcome of an image.
Another thought is if we continue with the DNMC DQ then voters will never have to worry about voting an image down because of DNMC. It's all been taken care of. |
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04/30/2014 05:20:20 PM · #35 |
Jesus folks.
Is following the rules really all that hard?
From the tenor and tone here from some folks you'd think that someone was threatening to use a cattle prod on their genitals. |
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04/30/2014 06:47:55 PM · #36 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
DPC is all about *challenges*: a set of parameters is posted and we are asked to work within those parameters to create our image. Why is this a problem? |
Comments from:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
What we're seeing in this case is over half the people who voted on this image telling me it is worthless because it doesn't agree with their idea of what a self portrait should be. That's scary, really. |
And now you're doing the same. That's the problem. |
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04/30/2014 07:02:16 PM · #37 |
Following the rules is not the hard part.having a narrow view of the challenge and dnmc'ing entries excessively, instead of having an open mind is the problem.
Sometimes playing around and doing the opposite of the description of the challenge enhances the socio-political statement of the photo presentation. Voters should be looking for these... |
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04/30/2014 08:18:56 PM · #38 |
Originally posted by Zelinde:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
DPC is all about *challenges*: a set of parameters is posted and we are asked to work within those parameters to create our image. Why is this a problem? |
Comments from:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
What we're seeing in this case is over half the people who voted on this image telling me it is worthless because it doesn't agree with their idea of what a self portrait should be. That's scary, really. |
And now you're doing the same. That's the problem. |
The concept "self portrait" is open to interpretation. The concept "without reflection" is not. The goal with this challenge is SPECIFICALLY to exclude symmetry-by-reflection. Why is this a problem for so many people?
Also, the statement which my quote is pulled from wasn't complaining that people didn't think it met the challenge (because I expected that) but that by hanging a "1" on it they were classifying it as "worthless". Finally, bear in mind that I'd only been on board for a month and a half or so at that time. I've learned a thing or two in the 9+ years since then :-)
Message edited by author 2014-04-30 20:19:40. |
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04/30/2014 09:02:55 PM · #39 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
The concept "without reflection" is not. The goal with this challenge is SPECIFICALLY to exclude symmetry-by-reflection. Why is this a problem for so many people? |
Because it's never been enforced before. Why start now?
Here's a list of challenges that are quite specific where the SC didn't feel the need to interfere.
Personified Smiles & Frowns - CHALLENGE_ID=1910
Total Lunar Eclipse - CHALLENGE_ID=1914
Euphemisms - CHALLENGE_ID=1534
Twisted III - CHALLENGE_ID=1566
ABC...LMN...XYZ II - CHALLENGE_ID=1768
30 Seconds or More - CHALLENGE_ID=1684
There's that challenge where every entry was supposed to titled the same thing.
It's easy to find many more. |
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04/30/2014 09:08:10 PM · #40 |
Bear's right about the distinction. It's not the same thing at all.
My remarks have been misinterpreted; my own fault. I'm not saying that DNMC should be a prohibited opinion. Nor that people shouldn't vote according to their own lights, no matter how dim those lights may be. But I do say that using DNMC as a first-stage filter on your thinking marks you as being a little dull and incurious as a default position. It's like liking country music. |
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04/30/2014 09:35:14 PM · #41 |
Originally posted by ubique:
It's like liking country music. |
My problem with that is that what they call "country music" today is what we used to call "rock-and-roll" only with guns and NASCAR ... ;-) |
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04/30/2014 09:36:28 PM · #42 |
Originally posted by Zelinde:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
The concept "without reflection" is not. The goal with this challenge is SPECIFICALLY to exclude symmetry-by-reflection. Why is this a problem for so many people? |
Because it's never been enforced before. Why start now?
Here's a list of challenges that are quite specific where the SC didn't feel the need to interfere.
Personified Smiles & Frowns - CHALLENGE_ID=1910
Total Lunar Eclipse - CHALLENGE_ID=1914
Euphemisms - CHALLENGE_ID=1534
Twisted III - CHALLENGE_ID=1566
ABC...LMN...XYZ II - CHALLENGE_ID=1768
30 Seconds or More - CHALLENGE_ID=1684
There's that challenge where every entry was supposed to titled the same thing.
It's easy to find many more. |
You would think they were obvious enough, yet the blue ribbon winner of eclipse was a definitely not a shot of the lunar eclipse. The definition specifically says if the weather allows, shoot a photo of the lunar eclipse. Not create what it should look like.
Maybe Langdon's ensuring that this description is followed, for some reason. It's happened twice that I've remembered in 5.5 years or so.
I don't think the world will end with this one.
We probably have to have 3 more of these types of challenges for we're swallowed by a black hole.
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04/30/2014 10:15:51 PM · #43 |
| what odd posts for someone who just registered today |
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04/30/2014 10:47:43 PM · #44 |
Originally posted by skewsme:
what odd posts for someone who just registered today |
Aren't they, though? :-) |
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05/01/2014 04:36:10 AM · #45 |
I'm usually quiet on these matters but questions keep popping :)
1. Why two DQ limitations over a short period of time? Were there complaints?
2. How will you validate? How will you validate abstract images? |
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05/01/2014 05:30:36 AM · #46 |
I enjoy these type of challenges....they are a lot harder to come up with a decent shot.
I also understand why some are complaining but really if you don't like the rules don't enter the challenge! You just can't please everyone.
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05/01/2014 07:14:05 AM · #47 |
An interesting read about left-right dimension in general thinking.
If the rules are there then I'll apply them to myself, I do though get a kick out of the out of the box or so called DNMC entries and I often find their creativity exhilarating. |
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05/01/2014 08:02:11 AM · #48 |
because everyone is dying for me to weigh in...
im not sure how i feel about this. on one hand i understand the effort to place a solid restriction, on the other hand, is a fear of an ignorance that the voters cant police the entries the problem? that a reflective surface composition will win a ribbon? while i understand the intent, im not sure its needed, if its one thing we know about dpc, people take this place really seriously, probably too seriously, but its really fun, so i get it. i really think we can police ourselves, though.
i'd prefer if my little escape from the world didn't become totalitarian.
Message edited by author 2014-05-01 08:04:13. |
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05/01/2014 08:06:29 AM · #49 |
Originally posted by tome:
2. How will you validate? How will you validate abstract images? |
My point exactly. I guess that SC can request the original. And if there's any question, any doubt, I think they'd have to request the original to be fair. That sounds like an awful lot of work to me. |
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05/01/2014 08:37:45 AM · #50 |
I see a wide divide between DNMC (opinion) and the rules (not up for interpretation). If you want to complain about too many rules, I can understand your point, but I wouldn't confuse the tighter rule set on this challenge as supporting or enforcing a DNMC mindset.
I think we're actually going to see more-creative entries thanks to the extra rule in this one. |
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