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DPChallenge Forums >> Current Challenge >> First Composition-Based DQ?
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04/30/2014 07:50:13 AM · #1
Am I wrong or are the extra rules in Symmetry Without Reflection the first time at DPC we've seen (the threat of) DQ based on a compositional decision? Usually such rulebreaking is left to the DNMC crowd to deal with and score accordingly.

The closest thing I can think of is the "black and white in color" challenges whereby the images had to be in color. That's pretty cut and dry to enforce. But this? I can see this causing some grief -- especially with some of the more abstract entries. Maybe if it was minimal...
04/30/2014 08:02:03 AM · #2
The recent April's Fool challenge had DQ's based on compositions
04/30/2014 08:03:48 AM · #3
see, someones fakes a lunar eclipse and the hammer comes down..
04/30/2014 08:39:14 AM · #4
If it's manageable, and I always surmised that it was too much work for SC and therefore not done, but I would welcome Site council dnmc's. For one, they can be contested, explanations can be given, this frees voters of the chains of consideration of dnmc, let's people vote more purely on feel and what they like in a photo.
04/30/2014 09:23:16 AM · #5
Originally posted by blindjustice:

If it's manageable, and I always surmised that it was too much work for SC and therefore not done, but I would welcome Site council dnmc's. For one, they can be contested, explanations can be given, this frees voters of the chains of consideration of dnmc, let's people vote more purely on feel and what they like in a photo.


totally agree...take the recent Wildlife...several entered animals in captivity. And a few bugs too...

"For the purpose of this challenge, "wildlife" should be considered non-domesticated mammals, birds, reptiles and amphibians living in a natural environment. Now that you know what to photograph, take your best shot"!
04/30/2014 10:59:24 AM · #6
If this turns into a regular thing, I predict two things will happen: Short term, some entry will come to light that some majority will say should have been disqualified and wasn't; or some entry will be disqualified that some majority will say should not have been. There will be endless bickering followed by some very public departures. Long term, people will choose not to interpret these challenges freely for fear of being disqualified. They just won't bother entering. Instead of creativity, we'll get compliance. But maybe that's what DPC has wanted all along.
04/30/2014 11:24:27 AM · #7
i didn't enter the april fools challenge for lack of available compositional (items without purchasing them specifically) because of the comment about dq'd images.
I saw that line and thought "i'll be funny and put in a random pic, title it April Fools! This image has none of the components" and see what happens. Then i figured they might be serious about the DQ thing and it wasn't worth it for a randomly thrown together entry.
i've been rather shy about my entries lately, shooting and editing some and deciding afterwords that i don't want to enter it because after a day or so coming back to it i'm always too critical and i don't want to be entering things that will be dismissed and just randomly low-voted without me at least having some sort of connection to the image.
that said, i think this challenge could be a good one for me to make a dedicated effort to shoot something simple and symmetrical that has meaning to me. get out of the entry-slump as it were, and the line about "no reflections" means that i don't have to worry about someone cheesing it up with a fun gimmick that gets upvoted for thinking outside the challenge box, there are plenty of other ones out there for that, and i'm definitely seeing more of the appeal of the basic and minimal entry rules, more than i ever used to...

to, tl;dr, i'm in favor of it for this challenge and think it's perfectly fine to do this on occasion.
04/30/2014 11:25:23 AM · #8
I see your point. It's a good one. Changed my mind to a certain degree. It should not be used in every instance. It would be discouraging to creativity to "make" people include things in their photos, on penalty and pains of the sword; but at rare times enforcing things of a certain nature, black and white for example, it reinforces the need for voters to vote on the photo, not peripheral things.
04/30/2014 11:32:30 AM · #9
My Main Street entry isn't in my town, and I'm not even sure if its considered THE main street of the town I was in. Don't come down too hard on me.

: - )
04/30/2014 11:43:32 AM · #10
DNMC is a leaden, anti-creative judgement; the first and last refuge of the dull. It should be left where it can't do any harm ... In the hands of those with tightly pursed narrow lips and no curiosity at all.
04/30/2014 11:46:16 AM · #11
Originally posted by ubique:

DNMC is a leaden, anti-creative judgement; the first and last refuge of the dull. It should be left where it can't do any harm ... In the hands of those with tightly pursed narrow lips and no curiosity at all.


Brilliantly put. I wholeheartedly agree.
04/30/2014 11:46:43 AM · #12
Extra DQ notice was added to the 1-Second Exposure challenge

after the 2-second Exposure challenge winner won blue with a 1/2 second shutter speed.

Sometimes, the honor system needs to be encouraged.
04/30/2014 11:55:10 AM · #13
Originally posted by ubique:

DNMC is a leaden, anti-creative judgement; the first and last refuge of the dull. It should be left where it can't do any harm ... In the hands of those with tightly pursed narrow lips and no curiosity at all.


I disagree -- I think DNMC has a specific purpose, but hopefully it's used sparingly.

I think trying to be creative within certain bounds is soooooo much more difficult than saying I can do whatever I want with the challenge, and that's my creativity.

I recently re-read the comments on the 47 steps challenge. It's easy to go find something fascinating wherever you want and photograph it. And thus do better than the majority of the people who really tried to be creative within the bounds of the challenge. Taking a picture during the day and processing it at night. Etc.

I have a huge amount of respect for people who can be creative within a boring box. Isn't it easier to be creative with no limitations? Absolutely! I'll bend over backwards trying to figure out how an image meets the challenge. But blatant disregard of the challenge topic isn't creative. And someone saying so with a DNMC isn't anti-creativity.
04/30/2014 11:56:07 AM · #14
Originally posted by Ja-9:

take the recent Wildlife...several entered animals in captivity. And a few bugs too...

"For the purpose of this challenge, "wildlife" should be considered non-domesticated mammals, birds, reptiles and amphibians living in a natural environment. Now that you know what to photograph, take your best shot"!

That challenge description has not changed since Wildlife I, and many of the ribbon winners were taken at zoos or wildlife parks. The "natural environment" aspect has been debated ad nauseum.
04/30/2014 11:57:50 AM · #15
Originally posted by ubique:

DNMC is a leaden, anti-creative judgement; the first and last refuge of the dull. It should be left where it can't do any harm ... In the hands of those with tightly pursed narrow lips and no curiosity at all.


+
04/30/2014 11:59:41 AM · #16
It's not going to be a regular thing. We just wanted to be SURE the challenge ends up being about actual, symmetrical things, not pretty reflections...
04/30/2014 12:00:00 PM · #17
Originally posted by hahn23:

Extra DQ notice was added to the 1-Second Exposure challenge

after the 2-second Exposure challenge winner won blue with a 1/2 second shutter speed.

Sometimes, the honor system needs to be encouraged.


Shutter speed can be verified - and if using a particular one is what the challenge is all about, I would have no problem with a DQ here. Not the same at all as a compositional DNMC DQ in my opinion.
04/30/2014 12:02:47 PM · #18
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

It's not going to be a regular thing. We just wanted to be SURE the challenge ends up being about actual, symmetrical things, not pretty reflections...

But how can you know? One of the beautiful things about a ' . substr('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', strrpos('//www.dpchallenge.com/images/user_icon/21_N.gif', '/') + 1) . ' jmritz image (for example) is that I'm never quite sure what I'm looking at.
04/30/2014 12:03:06 PM · #19
Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by ubique:

DNMC is a leaden, anti-creative judgement; the first and last refuge of the dull. It should be left where it can't do any harm ... In the hands of those with tightly pursed narrow lips and no curiosity at all.


I disagree -- I think DNMC has a specific purpose, but hopefully it's used sparingly.

I think trying to be creative within certain bounds is soooooo much more difficult than saying I can do whatever I want with the challenge, and that's my creativity.

I recently re-read the comments on the 47 steps challenge. It's easy to go find something fascinating wherever you want and photograph it. And thus do better than the majority of the people who really tried to be creative within the bounds of the challenge. Taking a picture during the day and processing it at night. Etc.

I have a huge amount of respect for people who can be creative within a boring box. Isn't it easier to be creative with no limitations? Absolutely! I'll bend over backwards trying to figure out how an image meets the challenge. But blatant disregard of the challenge topic isn't creative. And someone saying so with a DNMC isn't anti-creativity.


Oh, i'm all for creativity through limitation and often do that myself - limit myself to a certain focal length, only use black and white etc. The DNMC i don't have much time for is the along the lines of, ' That's not a dog it's a shadowy abstract of a dog so is DMNC for a dog challenge.' That sort of thing is a limitation in seeing which isn't such a good thing in my opinion. Personally i loved the 47 Steps challenge and couldn't work out why some people didn't want to do it.

Message edited by author 2014-04-30 12:06:08.
04/30/2014 12:03:43 PM · #20
Originally posted by ubique:

DNMC is a leaden, anti-creative judgement; the first and last refuge of the dull. It should be left where it can't do any harm ... In the hands of those with tightly pursed narrow lips and no curiosity at all.

That's what Free Studies are for. "Artistic license" is the first and last refuge of those who lack the creativity to express a concept within the loose confines of a topic, which is exactly what makes it a challenge.
04/30/2014 12:08:13 PM · #21
Originally posted by scalvert:

Originally posted by ubique:

DNMC is a leaden, anti-creative judgement; the first and last refuge of the dull. It should be left where it can't do any harm ... In the hands of those with tightly pursed narrow lips and no curiosity at all.

That's what Free Studies are for. "Artistic license" is the first and last refuge of those who lack the creativity to express a concept within the loose confines of a topic, which is exactly what makes it a challenge.

Right. Paul, I don't understand your vitriolic response here. DPC is all about *challenges*: a set of parameters is posted and we are asked to work within those parameters to create our image. In the present instance, the *challenge* is to find symmetry without using reflections. Why is this a problem?
04/30/2014 12:52:24 PM · #22
I think that it would be useful to remember that symmetry has much more interesting and complex interpretations that the one constructed with a simple reflection.
04/30/2014 01:01:56 PM · #23
it totally defeats me how anyone is harmed when someone wins a ribbon by some sort of cheating. except that someone. if, as is said, the challenge is to shoot within the confines, that is the beauty in itself. else the implication is that if we thought we could get a ribbon by faking the challenge we would do so.

think about what that says.
04/30/2014 01:06:49 PM · #24
Originally posted by vawendy:

Originally posted by ubique:

DNMC is a leaden, anti-creative judgement; the first and last refuge of the dull. It should be left where it can't do any harm ... In the hands of those with tightly pursed narrow lips and no curiosity at all.


I disagree -- I think DNMC has a specific purpose, but hopefully it's used sparingly.

I think trying to be creative within certain bounds is soooooo much more difficult than saying I can do whatever I want with the challenge, and that's my creativity.

I recently re-read the comments on the 47 steps challenge. It's easy to go find something fascinating wherever you want and photograph it. And thus do better than the majority of the people who really tried to be creative within the bounds of the challenge. Taking a picture during the day and processing it at night. Etc.

I have a huge amount of respect for people who can be creative within a boring box. Isn't it easier to be creative with no limitations? Absolutely! I'll bend over backwards trying to figure out how an image meets the challenge. But blatant disregard of the challenge topic isn't creative. And someone saying so with a DNMC isn't anti-creativity.


+1. I like the *challenge*.
04/30/2014 01:14:31 PM · #25
I think it's pretty safe to say that not everybody is going to agree on everything....and so that's why there are different challenges that appeal to different people. Once in a while a restrictive set of parameters will be fun. It wouldn't be fun all the time.

Anyways, stringent rules will hurt a lot less to me than dnmc'ing a window because it doesn't have glass. At least I think that's what happened to my windows entry *sniff*
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