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03/01/2014 07:21:14 AM · #1 |
OK - by way of a word of warning, this is likely to be a long and rambling post. I'm trying to get my thoughts down in the hope that you fine folk will critique my assumptions and engage in dialogue to help me come to a conclusion as to whether I should change all of my kit.
Let's start of by summarising my current kit with some notes on my feelings in relation to it.
Canon 5D MKIII
Canon 85mm f/1.2L II
Canon 16-35 f/2.8L II
Canon 24-105 f/4L
Canon 100-400 f/4.5-5.6L
Canon 50mm f/2.5 Macro
Canon EF25 II extender
Lensbaby Composer (Canon mount) with single glass and pinhole/zone plate optic
Canon Angle Finder C
Sigma 180mm f/3.5 APO Macro
Sigma Macro ring flash
Leica M9
Carl Zeiss 50mm f/1.5C (calibrated to f/1.5, not the out-of-factory f/2.8)
Carl Zeiss 28mm f/2.8 Biogon
Leica 1.2X eyepiece
Thumbs-up grip
Canon G11
Underwater housing for G11
Olympus EPL-1
EVF II
Olympus 14-42 kit zoom
iPhone 4s
On the surface it perhaps looks like a bit of overkill and one could certainly contend that I have many photographic needs covered, but let's look at what I shoot now (versus what I used to shoot).
Model work
I will, from time to time, shoot models - perhaps once a month or slightly less. However, this work is my best received - it scores better here than my other work, and does well on other sites too. The 5D3 excels here and 90% of my work is done with the (worth-having-a-canon-system-for) 85mm f/1.2L II and the 16-35mm f/2.8. I don't really use the 24-105L - it's a good lens but the wrong one - I don't shoot with strobes very much and for indoor natural light it is too slow and given the sometimes cramped indoor environment, the 16-35mm is a better fit. Despite positive reviews, the 16-35 is really just OK from an image quality point of view - it doesn't perform well edge to edge in my view - certainly not wide open.
I've tried shooting my Leica M9 for my model shots, it's workable but when the light is dim the files are a little muddy in the shadows and the buffer fills up far too quickly and I stand there waiting to be able to shoot again.
For model work, clarity of image is an absolute priority, I need perfectly focussed eyes and really smooth out-of-focus areas when shooting wide open. I shoot wide open about 80% of the time - I like to isolate subjects.
For me, mostly, the process of shooting models is not a particularly enjoyable experience - by that I mean the photographic act, the interaction with the camera, is a pain - it's all dials, buttons, exposure compensation (backlit models using window light is really tricky) and precision framing (if you want the narrow DOF look, you tend to try to use the full frame for composition rather than shoot wide and crop later. Also, sometimes there just isn't the room to shoot wide). Where I enjoy the model work is in the edit - I feel this is a more creative space for me and mostly I've got the workflow down and know how to get the look I want. For this I need really robust files that don't 'break' easily when I use multiple filters. This concept of 'breaking' files is when you get to a point when you become aware that information has been lost. I'll often start a fresh edit once I've developed a look and sometimes that can be achieved in a way that is a bit more data sparing. One assumption that I have is that high dynamic range is my friend here - I think I need a sensor that gives me as many stops of dynamic range as is possible.
Street work
This is a very different day's shooting for me - the process of photography is now much more important. I want to feel engaged with the camera, the tactile feel of the camera is important, the act of creating the image is more considered and more spontaneous at the same time. This is what I bought the M9 for. In good light, outdoors it works fine - go into a gallery or similar internal space and it's full of compromises. Shooting wide open to get enough speed makes focussing tricky - my laser corrected eyes are not perfect and the time it takes to focus a rangefinder (wide open) is problematic. Zone focussing works well but really only outside because it needs a lot of light. The Zeiss 28mm is an exceptional performer. My 50mm f/1.5 actually approaches the 85mm on my Canon for portrait work but I barely use it on the street - not wide enough. Again, certainly for the indoor public spaces I believe that I need a camera with a high dynamic range sensor. By the way, I pretty much always convert my street work to B&W.
Travel photography
I travel a bit and got fed up taking a rucksack for my Canon gear, the Leica is much better in this regard but I have less lenses and the slower shooting process feels higher stakes when overseas - I might not be going back and want to make every shot count - overall, the Leica is less reliable in getting keepers because of its low speed of operation.
Kit that sits
I really have no use any longer for my 100-400mm or much of my macro kit (the little 50mm is useful for my fish but I don't shoot those too often)
The 24-105mm is the wrong lens for me. Too slow.
The Olympus EPL-1 - I used to use this for street work but the Leica solution is better is just about every way.
I don't use the little G11 much but it does represent my only underwater solution at the moment.
Photographic priorities and prejudices
I don't want a cropped sensor - Living with a 5D2 and a 7D for a year cemented that - the difference between the look of the two cameras was for me a no-brainer.
Having a single system would be attractive - there is a two body route suggested below - being able to use the same lenses would be good.
I absolutely need a solution that will give me a look comparable to the Canon 85mm f/1.2 on my 5D3.
I do enjoy having a Leica - it might be seen as indulging in a bit of gear snobbery but it's more than that - there's an enormous online community, I love flicking through the galleries at LFI, I like the huge range of lenses and reading about how they render etc - almost a hobby in its own right.
Rangefinder focussing is tricky - it would be nice to have access to focus support when I need it (focus peaking might be enough) - i.e. when I'm not using zone focussing on the street.
The propositions
1. Change nothing - live with the distribution of capability across my kit and the compromises that exist for any individual setup.
2. Sell the M9 body, buy a Sony A7/A7R and the Zeiss T* FE 35mm and a Leica adaptor.
3. Sell everything apart from the Zeiss lenses and my (compatible) Olympus EVF-2 and buy a Leica M and perhaps another lens.
4. Sell everything apart from the Zeiss lenses and buy a Sony A7/A7R, the Zeiss T* FE 35mm, a Leica adaptor and a Leica MM.
(I'm working on the assumption that selling everything (I have boxes for most of it) would yield about £8000)
To me, 2 and 3 are half measures and 4 would give me a portable and capable kit with little that goes unused.
If you've got this far - thanks!!
How's my logic?
What might I lose (other than focal length range) by going down the route of 'Proposition 4'?
Any and all thoughts are appreciated.
Many thanks
Paul |
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03/01/2014 10:01:49 AM · #2 |
| You need to trust yourself. You're clearly brilliant about your equipment and you know what you want. But before you sell everything, rent the equipment you intend to buy. You clearly love your canon 85mm and a love like that is usually impossible to find elsewhere. |
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03/01/2014 10:03:13 AM · #3 |
| And thank you. I learned something from watching you think. |
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03/01/2014 10:34:32 AM · #4 |
Hello Paul.
Some serious options there. As a fella who has been through quite a bit of gear to 'find myself' in this expensive hobby/work.
Studio / model shoots IMO deserve seriously good IQ, I find most DSLRs way to flat for this job. The best and reasonably priced units that I personally have used in this line of work have been...
Pentax 645D 55/f2.8 - 80/f2.8 - 120 MACRO f4
Hasselblad 500CX with 16MP CFV, Zeiess 120MAKRO - Zeiss 80/f2.8 - if you need wide, i used the Zeiss 40mm.
Street work, you can't beat a Leica mate sorry, the M8 is great for B&W and the M240(has a few problems they will hopefully fix soon, e.g. ISO 640 issue were some M240's produce a hard line vertically on the image, mine is still at Wetzlar for repair even though have loaned me another M240 with the same issue @640 ironically enough..) is the M240 better than the M9? for the very reason I can use my old R lenses YES also the IQ and ISO performance is way better, the image files from a CCD sensor I LOVE!!! the M240, as you know, has a CMOS, but in saying that, it is a CMOS sensor with a lot more personality than the DSLR crew, sorry, not a fan of DSLR cameras, I believe with the increase in usability and IQ that are coming from mirror less cameras, we could be looking at the new graveyard of camera bodies (apart from the Pro series of cause 1Dx, D4 etc).
Sony A7r, don't own one, have shot with one and have to say I was impressed, you get issues when trying to shoot wide if you want to use Leica glass with it due to the adapter addition.
It will produce great images that, IMO, are way better than a prosumer DSLR. Your call on this one mate, its a D800 in a small box, treat it like a digital back for your lenses.
Travel, Leica again, small powerful excellent IQ brilliant glass, perfect. The Sony would do this for you too.
I think (and this is only my personal opinion) I would like a Sony A7r with the Zeiss 35/50/80 lenses (this would offer you virtually MF quality that almost fits in your pocket).
I would keep your M9 but add the M240 for colour work. Yes the Sony can cover that for you but, let's face it, it's NOT a Rangefinder is it.
The only unused kit you have left is the Canon stuff that I would trade off against the A7r & M240 (and extra glass you would fancy) the kit bag is smaller the arsenal more powerful. and may even have enough change to buy me a beer.
Message edited by author 2014-03-01 10:36:29. |
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03/01/2014 10:39:00 AM · #5 |
I also had, and wanted, the 85/1.2 look but was tired of dragging my 5Dm2 and 85/1.2 to mountain tops and on boats/trips etc.
I sold my 5Dm2 and all lenses. Bought an M9. Now I have an RX1r (I absolutely LOVE that camera!) and an Olympus OM-D1 with a Lumix Leica lux 25 1.4 and Olympus 75 1.8. I love that camera too, but my wife is using it mostly.
Leica M or A7R will be my next body. The Sony beats the M in many regards, but I think the images looks a little sterile. So if I were you I'd choose option 3 as first choice and option 4 as second. Can you live without having auto focus though? I can. The focus peaking on the M is very good.
But I will keep the OM-D1 for pics of kids etc. as it has fast focus (by touching on the wanted focus area on the LCD screen), excellent AI and easy use of iPhone as viewfinder plus transfer photos. Nice for wife and Facebook.
So for me it will be Leica M with 50 lux (amongst others) and the OM-D1 for kids etc.
I too love browsing LFI BTW.
Full Frame is also the only way for me. I have a hard time getting used to the small m4/3 format from the OM-D1 but it makes up for it in so many other ways. |
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03/01/2014 10:44:07 AM · #6 |
Originally posted by MAK:
I think (and this is only my personal opinion) I would like a Sony A7r with the Zeiss 35/50/80 lenses (this would offer you virtually MF quality that almost fits in your pocket).
I would keep your M9 but add the M240 for colour work. Yes the Sony can cover that for you but, let's face it, it's NOT a Rangefinder is it. |
Why would you add an A7r to the M? Just curious as I don't personally see the need for both - unless of course you only wanted the A7r those times you would absolutely need AF - which for me is very seldom. |
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03/01/2014 10:46:53 AM · #7 |
Interesting and thoughtful post. I'm going through similar thoughts as I have a kit that was put together for wildlife, but then I moved to a place where I do mostly street.
So anyway, my thoughts...
I wouldn't buy the A7R without renting it for a weekend and putting it through its paces. What I read about it (I've never tried it myself) is that it's weaknesses are things that are important to you (image quality with wide lenses and focus speed).
Like Posthumous said, I'm not sure I'd sell the 85 (or the camera that goes with it). You are getting the results you want from it, and I can't imagine a kit that would get you anything better. Maybe the A7R and the 85, but I'd want to try it first before buying.
For street, I don't know. I'm using a Sony RX100 II, which I'm not entirely happy with, mostly because of focus speed, and inability to get shallow DOF. After shooting with the Leica, I'm not sure you'd be happy with anything else.
For travel, on the other hand, the RX100 is perfect, as long as I'm not needing to shoot long or very wide. Even if I end up with something else for street, I'll keep the RX100 for travel. The D800 and bag of huge lenses will go to Alaska with me next summer, though.
Anyway, those are my thoughts. Take them for what they're worth. One thing I personally do is once a year, I go through my kit, sell everything I haven't used in the previous year, and use the freed up cash to buy what I think I'll need in the coming year. A side effect of doing this every year is I become very conscious of resale value, so most of my gear is either used, or was bought new at a significant discount. |
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03/01/2014 10:51:53 AM · #8 |
Thanks for posting this...it's a good exposition of logic that I should try in more detail myself. I've only summarized my needs as smaller, lighter, less.
The Sony A7r does sound like a good match for you. You can't beat Zeiss lenses short of Leica. So a good compromise to help with focus.
At least from my own perspective, I wonder if 35mm size full frame is the answer...you buy the best, low light lenses, but you do end up stopping down to get sufficient DOF. With a crop sensor, you have the same amount of light at a given F-Stop, but more DOF. You just have to watch for the best dynamic range when picking the sensor/camera. And you get a smaller camera, and smaller lenses.
The Fuji X-T1, while not full frame, may be one to watch too..great for low light shooting, good prime lenses, and it's very small.
Camera size comparisons: //camerasize.com/compact/#467,535.84,489,482.412,520.359,488.393,485.80,440.149,ha,t |
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03/01/2014 11:03:11 AM · #9 |
Originally posted by TrollMan:
Why would you add an A7r to the M? Just curious as I don't personally see the need for both - unless of course you only wanted the A7r those times you would absolutely need AF - which for me is very seldom. |
Exactly, and the fact that the A7r will work better for a studio .. I have an M8 and the M240 but I do sometime wish I had some AF. I have shot with the M in a studio but it not comfortable for me personally |
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03/01/2014 11:11:16 AM · #10 |
Originally posted by MAK:
Originally posted by TrollMan:
Why would you add an A7r to the M? Just curious as I don't personally see the need for both - unless of course you only wanted the A7r those times you would absolutely need AF - which for me is very seldom. |
Exactly, and the fact that the A7r will work better for a studio .. I have an M8 and the M240 but I do sometime wish I had some AF. I have shot with the M in a studio but it not comfortable for me personally |
I have to agree with that. Although I never tried the M240 in studio, I used my M9 in studio and was not comfortable with it either. I had much better faith in the 5Dm2 in that regard. Set it and forget it type of thing. M9 was everything but that - and that is why I love it so much.
They do have a sale in Norway right now on the A7r... very tempted. Otus 55 would be a dream (albeit too big) - for studio too, though I don't shoot in studio anymore.
A7r with Otus 55
Message edited by author 2014-03-01 11:12:48. |
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03/01/2014 11:24:17 AM · #11 |
| Option 4 sounds great to me Paul, you have to get the 55mm Zeiss lens though, it's the second sharpest lens ever tested after the Otus 55 and you will appreciate the AF. As you know I'm loving the A7, not sure for my style of shooting that FF has an advantage over a crop sensor so I'll probably keep a foot in the Fuji camp as well, although another A7 or A7r is sorely tempting. |
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03/01/2014 11:26:59 AM · #12 |
Many thanks for all of the replies.
Let's assume the Canon gets replaced by a Sony A7r - I certainly wouldn't be able to attach the 85mm Canon to it because of the electronic focus - it can't be manually focussed without a powered mount. And, I need to sell it to buy other parts of the potential kit.
Now, if I do that, it would be my studio lens, using it with the system specific Sony Zeiss lenses. Given that I could stick on the Zeiss M lenses for colour street, why would I pair it with an M(240) rather than an M Monchrom?
It seems to me that given that I convert most of my street image to black and white - the greater dynamic range of the MM sensor would be a better choice?
While reading your posts Option 5 came to mind.
Keep the 5D3, the 85mm and the 16-35. Keep the two ZM lenses and the EVF2 and then buy an M(240). I then keep my studio set up and have an M with greater dynamic range than the M9 and focus assist via focus peaking with the EVF-2 when I need it. It would cost me more without the sales though.
Thanks again
Paul
Message edited by author 2014-03-01 11:28:43. |
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03/01/2014 11:30:10 AM · #13 |
A different way of looking at all this:
As much as we imbue these objects with emotional qualities, they are, after all, merely tools. Each tool is "perfect" for a specific job, or two - if we're lucky. Sometimes we need more than one tool.
The easy stuff first: You have a handful of tools that are collecting dust. Get rid of those.
For the answer to "which new gear", I echo the encouragements to rent what you're interested in. And alternatively to buying something, rent it for your travels. The travel issue is universal - we want pro-looking images without having to carry the "pro" gear. Unless you're planning to sell the images, I'm absolutely certain that even your "second tier choice" in your hands will render sufficiently fabulous images.
And finally, ask yourself if the quest for new gear is about addressing limitations in your current stock or because you're feeling restless with your work and seeking retail therapy. |
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03/01/2014 12:43:26 PM · #14 |
Good comments again - I've been thinking about the rental issue since Don mentioned it earlier. There doesn't seem to be that much rental supply here in the UK but I suspect I might be able to rent an M240.
I am somewhat disatisfied with my kit but I hear when you say no kit is perfect. You are right about getting rid of the kit that is just sitting - I need to do that. I just get the sense that the new crop of mirrorless full frame offerings are a bit of a game changer in terms of versatility.
My next overseas trip is in June and then I have a trip to Australia via Hong Kong later in the year. It would seem sensible to optimise my kit as much as possible before that second trip.
(I might have to go to Vietnam too before then)
Please keep the thoughts coming.
Thanks
Paul
Message edited by author 2014-03-01 12:44:50. |
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03/01/2014 12:49:03 PM · #15 |
| If you start selling Canon kit, dibs on the angle finder. I definitely want one of those... Option 4 sounds rational to me. |
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03/01/2014 02:22:21 PM · #16 |
| My advice: Sell all your camera gear. Replace it all with only Nikon gear. Then you will be happy, and never look at another brand ;-) |
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03/01/2014 02:35:24 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by snaffles:
My advice: Sell all your camera gear. Replace it all with only Nikon gear. Then you will be happy, and never look at another brand ;-) |
No, no, no, no.... Sell it all and get a Sony RX100. I shot a wedding with mine last week. The results were really good. If it can do that, it can do anything.
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03/01/2014 02:49:00 PM · #18 |
I've got to agree with MAK - just go for a MF kit.
Honestly, if you drop all of that gear, grab a Fuji X100s, and a Phase One IQ back, I think you'll find that you're more restricted in terms of focal length, but much happier in terms of awesome IQ and enjoyment of use.
I shit you not, since I've bought that Fuji my big bodies haven't been used but one single time (and that was because I needed to go 100-400)
Think about the possibility of going cheap with the carry-around camera (which incidentally would address the issues you have with the Leica), and then going spendy on a serious MF camera. The look you'll get should be worth the trouble.. (Think that 85 f/1.2 is shallow? You'll be astonished at how shallow you can get with a fast lens on MF) |
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03/01/2014 03:12:23 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by Cory:
I've got to agree with MAK - just go for a MF kit.
Honestly, if you drop all of that gear, grab a Fuji X100s, and a Phase One IQ back, I think you'll find that you're more restricted in terms of focal length, but much happier in terms of awesome IQ and enjoyment of use.
I shit you not, since I've bought that Fuji my big bodies haven't been used but one single time (and that was because I needed to go 100-400)
Think about the possibility of going cheap with the carry-around camera (which incidentally would address the issues you have with the Leica), and then going spendy on a serious MF camera. The look you'll get should be worth the trouble.. (Think that 85 f/1.2 is shallow? You'll be astonished at how shallow you can get with a fast lens on MF) |
That'll take a lot more than £8K though won't it? |
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03/01/2014 03:35:12 PM · #20 |
Originally posted by Paul:
Originally posted by Cory:
I've got to agree with MAK - just go for a MF kit.
Honestly, if you drop all of that gear, grab a Fuji X100s, and a Phase One IQ back, I think you'll find that you're more restricted in terms of focal length, but much happier in terms of awesome IQ and enjoyment of use.
I shit you not, since I've bought that Fuji my big bodies haven't been used but one single time (and that was because I needed to go 100-400)
Think about the possibility of going cheap with the carry-around camera (which incidentally would address the issues you have with the Leica), and then going spendy on a serious MF camera. The look you'll get should be worth the trouble.. (Think that 85 f/1.2 is shallow? You'll be astonished at how shallow you can get with a fast lens on MF) |
That'll take a lot more than £8K though won't it? |
A lot more? No. A bit more? Maybe. (unless you really do go for an IQ 140 or something, which is stupid money)
Take a look at recent P45+ sales on E-bay to get a good idea. I figure somewhere between 7-11k should get you going with an ok lens.. Now, a good lens could easily double or triple that price, but the IQ of even cheaper MF lenses is still just fine.
ETA: Here's a P21+ kit that's up for a very reasonable price. Still would need a lens though.
--
I personally have no problem using 3+ generation old technology, but you may differ. I know that I'm currently considering shelling out for a MF kit, as I'm pretty darn bored with my DSLR stuff (other than the 100-400 + 1D setup)
Message edited by author 2014-03-01 21:16:22. |
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03/01/2014 03:46:55 PM · #21 |
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03/01/2014 07:17:56 PM · #22 |
My Hasselblad 500CX and CFV16 back was around £3k this included an 80mm Zeis. the 120 makro was around £600 considering it is one of the best lenses on the planet for portraiture it is quite inexpensive really. The CFV16 was a square crop sensor, beautiful.
Granted the PhaseOne option is more pricey but mind bendingly good.
The M Monochrom was my favourite Leica EVER I was sad when I had to part with it, I would sell my M240 gladly for a Monochrom
ETA:Pentax are due to release the new 645D II that promises to be a special unit
Message edited by author 2014-03-01 19:20:29. |
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03/01/2014 09:37:22 PM · #23 |
| well you can send me all your gear, In return Ill give you a slightly battered Box Brownie, Bert Hardy used one of these for his street photography,to great effect. |
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03/02/2014 04:39:17 AM · #24 |
Originally posted by kiwinick:
well you can send me all your gear, In return Ill give you a slightly battered Box Brownie, Bert Hardy used one of these for his street photography,to great effect. |
Good to see you still around old buddy, and still trying to shift that old Brownie too. |
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03/02/2014 07:47:14 AM · #25 |
Trade everything in for a Hasselblad H5D-40 with 1 or 2 lenses and feel forever reassured
that the pixel-quality of your work is unquestionably up there with the very best.
Sure, it'll slow things down, force the fulltime use of 'uncommon-sense' - alter the style-approach to subjects,
and demand very good and consistent shot-discipline.
I believe in keeping photography as simple as possible - be the camera is my motto - become very familiar with one just one camera
- so it becomes second nature to make adjustments without looking away from the subject.
Changing 'kit' is (for many of us) part of a photographic journey but H.Bresson got by rather well using one camera and one lens.
I'd do one of the following:
(1) Drastically simplify the overall kit as it currently stands.
(2) Upgrade to medium format (if means allow) and never look back!
Message edited by author 2014-03-02 14:39:47. |
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