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 02/06/2014 08:36:58 AM · #51
Originally posted by tate:
Here's another way of looking at the results.
At a glance, which image won?



Graphs not to scale. Internally, yes, but not in relation to each other. Graphs are deceitful things. In order to really figure this out, I might need ... to do math ::gasp:: Need more coffee for that. It's a lost art.
 02/06/2014 08:44:13 AM · #52
Math is not a lost art. Coffee is.
 02/06/2014 08:57:19 AM · #53
They are all the same size. The crops were a little off. This is not me conspiring and making the sizes different. GEEZ.
FYI: I just aligned them better.

Point being:
The first one at the top is the winner, but it has the fewest 10s.
The 2nd one is 5th place. Has the most 10s by far.
THe 3rd one is 22nd place. Still has more 10s than the winner.

Just trying to illustrate the idea that "winner" is somewhat subjective when broken down this way.

Originally posted by MaryO:
Graphs not to scale. Internally, yes, but not in relation to each other. Graphs are deceitful things. In order to really figure this out, I might need ... to do math ::gasp:: Need more coffee for that. It's a lost art.


Message edited by author 2014-02-06 09:02:51.
 02/06/2014 09:04:04 AM · #54
I think he means the bars represent different numbers, e.g. '62' in the first one is the same length as '43' in the second one.
 02/06/2014 09:13:10 AM · #55
AH!
I see - I never noticed that the bars were based on the relative maximum. I'm gonna go ahead and assume "relative maximum" is a thing.

=)

Originally posted by JH:
I think he means the bars represent different numbers, e.g. '62' in the first one is the same length as '43' in the second one.
02/06/2014 09:15:06 AM · #56
Originally posted by JH:
I think he means the bars represent different numbers, e.g. '62' in the first one is the same length as '43' in the second one.


Yep, that's what I meant. A lifetime ago I used to analyze things like this. Old habits die hard.
 02/06/2014 10:15:26 AM · #57
Regardless, I think if you look at how each is weighted, it still makes a point.
More scores of 10 don't make for a winner. More low scores may mean that though.

Originally posted by MaryO:
Originally posted by JH:
I think he means the bars represent different numbers, e.g. '62' in the first one is the same length as '43' in the second one.


Yep, that's what I meant. A lifetime ago I used to analyze things like this. Old habits die hard.
02/06/2014 12:01:41 PM · #58
Just goes to prove the point that the traditional path to ribbons at DPC is reducing the number of people who don't like an image, not increasing the number who love it.

A lot of times, images that garner a whole bunch of "love it!" votes also pull in a larger number of "meh" or "can't stand it" responses. The 5th-place image is a good example of that, actually: 32 5-or-less votes compared to the winning shot's 20. And that's actually predictable, in the sense that 5th place is a gauzy, grainy, unconventional image. Sheer artistry drove it to near the top despite its being outside the box. Note that commenters scored it half a point higher than the winner (they both had 31 comments), and participants scored it .2 higher...

Message edited by author 2014-02-06 12:02:22.
 02/06/2014 12:03:39 PM · #59
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Just goes to prove the point that the traditional path to ribbons at DPC is reducing the number of people who don't like an image, not increasing the number who love it.

A lot of times, images that garner a whole bunch of "love it!" votes also pull in a larger number of "meh" or "can't stand it" responses. The 5th-place image is a good example of that, actually: 32 5-or-less votes compared to the winning shot's 20. And that's actually predictable, in the sense that 5th place is a gauzy, grainy, unconventional image. Sheer artistry drove it to near the top despite its being outside the box. Note that commenters scored it half a point higher than the winner (they both had 31 comments), and participants scored it .2 higher...


That's because I gave it a 9. It's awesome! :)
 02/06/2014 03:35:01 PM · #60
My point was that if the DPC community rates Wendy's image as a 'Masterpiece' it's making a statement about who it is and what it represents -that's a million miles away from what I joined 8 years ago. Wendy - you have some truly great images, but this wasn't one of them. Quo Vadis DPC?
 02/06/2014 03:40:16 PM · #61
Originally posted by Chinarosepetal:
My point was that if the DPC community rates Wendy's image as a 'Masterpiece' it's making a statement about who it is and what it represents -that's a million miles away from what I joined 8 years ago. Wendy - you have some truly great images, but this wasn't one of them. Quo Vadis DPC?


Here's the runner-up in "Best of 2007", the year you joined, and Wendy's shot side by side:



I know which one *I* prefer, and it's not the hummingbird. I don't think much has changed, anyway.

Message edited by author 2014-02-06 15:42:15.
 02/06/2014 04:22:13 PM · #62
It would be an interesting variant next time we run a "Masters" to have 2 sets of ribbons, one for the popular vote, and one for the winner of the vote among the entrants, or those who qualified to enter.
 02/06/2014 04:30:10 PM · #63
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
It would be an interesting variant next time we run a "Masters" to have 2 sets of ribbons, one for the popular vote, and one for the winner of the vote among the entrants, or those who qualified to enter.

It's unlikely to change anything; those qualified to enter are multiple-ribbon winners, and more or less by definition they are pre-selected as producing the sort of work that appeals to the voters as a group...
 02/06/2014 04:40:13 PM · #64
Originally posted by Bear_Music:


Here's the runner-up in "Best of 2007", the year you joined, and Wendy's shot side by side:



I know which one *I* prefer, and it's not the hummingbird. I don't think much has changed, anyway.


I'm interested to know why you prefer Wendy's shot! I value your opinion as do many here and I'm just very curious as why you like it.

Am I so out of touch? because to me the shots are miles apart in the opposite direction of your preference.
 02/06/2014 04:59:17 PM · #65
Originally posted by Stagolee:
I'm interested to know why you prefer Wendy's shot! I value your opinion as do many here and I'm just very curious as why you like it.

Am I so out of touch? because to me the shots are miles apart in the opposite direction of your preference.

Not to take away from the hummer, but it just didn't do anything for me. It's like I've seen it before, ya know? I gave it a 6, slightly above average for me. The Bluejay, on the other hand, stopped me in my tracks: the sheer, raw DETAIL of the thing fascinated me. The way the feathers interlock, the "chin hairs", it's all like a minor revelation. I gave it an 8.
 02/06/2014 05:18:00 PM · #66
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Not to take away from the hummer, but it just didn't do anything for me. It's like I've seen it before, ya know? I gave it a 6, slightly above average for me. The Bluejay, on the other hand, stopped me in my tracks: the sheer, raw DETAIL of the thing fascinated me. The way the feathers interlock, the "chin hairs", it's all like a minor revelation. I gave it an 8.

Same opinion here, including the vote of 8. I didn't vote on the hummingbird (probably would have given a 7). I like the colors and composition on that one, but the use of Neat Image is too apparent for my taste.
 02/06/2014 05:35:03 PM · #67
Originally posted by BrennanOB:
It would be an interesting variant next time we run a "Masters" to have 2 sets of ribbons, one for the popular vote, and one for the winner of the vote among the entrants, or those who qualified to enter.


We had another thread about this, many agreed that it would be interesting, but failed to give a clear reason why.
 02/06/2014 05:47:46 PM · #68
I gave the hummingbird an 8 and the blue jay a 7 because I like William more than Wendy
 02/06/2014 06:46:28 PM · #69
Originally posted by blindjustice:
We had another thread about this, many agreed that it would be interesting, but failed to give a clear reason why


Because it makes the requirement that you have to be a member to vote on member challenges less a "jury of your peers" statement and more of a cash grab.
 02/06/2014 06:48:14 PM · #70
We are moving forwards.

Ray

Message edited by author 2014-02-06 19:11:26.
 02/06/2014 07:20:07 PM · #71
Sorry for the excursion.
To me, the BlueJay was amazingly detailed. Herringbone feathers, chinwhiskers. Stunning.
The birds and the bees is a bit of a better story though. It is a vague reference to sex and springtime and courtship, and contrasts the size scale and habits of two very different creatures.

Message edited by author 2014-02-06 20:56:18.
 02/06/2014 08:48:28 PM · #72
I was shocked that the Blue Jay shot won the blue. Too common of a shot. Perhaps I cannot produce the detail due to equipment limitations, but I could take the same shot every day if I wanted to watch my bird feeder and the surrounding area. Saying that, even if I could reproduce the detail I thought that wouldn't be good enough for blue - even if I was qualified to enter the challenge. Perhaps I should shut up.

Message edited by author 2014-02-06 20:58:26.
 02/08/2014 05:45:58 PM · #73
I haven't been to this site in ..gasp..years. This thread is exactly why. You guys need to get a life, stop boo hooing about who won. Who cares, really! No wonder that Leo guy left (focus point)
 02/08/2014 06:10:20 PM · #74
Originally posted by Debbi:
I haven't been to this site in ..gasp..years. This thread is exactly why. You guys need to get a life, stop boo hooing about who won. Who cares, really! No wonder that Leo guy left (focus point)


How's that old expression go? When someone closes a door, someone else opens a window.

Well Leo's gone but now we have you.
 02/08/2014 06:52:26 PM · #75
Fascinating voting that the 1st place photo only scored 1 more 10 than the 90th placed photo.
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