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DPChallenge Forums >> Challenge Results >> Framing Disqualification?
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09/08/2004 08:33:47 AM · #1
I'd just like to post my concern about the Framing contest. This means in no way disrespect to the owner of the shot, but i must bring attention to the fact that the picture doesn't follow the theme's requirement.

Zoomdak's picture, Sunbreak, doesn't comply with the theme at all. Where is the "foreground subject frames the rest of the image."?


09/08/2004 08:35:41 AM · #2
Even if that is the case, failure to meet the challenge is not grounds for a DQ, per the rules.

*shrug*

Clara
09/08/2004 08:38:10 AM · #3
I dissagree.

My interpretation of the challenge was to use the tried and tested photography technique of 'framing' the picture using elements of the composition. Very few entries actually had elements framed by objects which could be considered to be the main element of the composition.

Chris
09/08/2004 08:38:22 AM · #4
This is also not really the proper place to bring this up. It would probably be best to PM a SC member.

Edit: And BTW the trees do frame the picture. It doesn't have to look like a picture frame all the way around the image.

Message edited by author 2004-09-08 08:39:45.
09/08/2004 08:54:11 AM · #5
I agree, "framing" is not a literal term. The trees in this picture do a great job at framing the subject.
09/08/2004 08:57:24 AM · #6
so who didn't understand the challenge ... you, or the 211 people who gave the shot a 7 or higher?
09/08/2004 05:51:05 PM · #7
Originally posted by hopper:

so who didn't understand the challenge ... you, or the 211 people who gave the shot a 7 or higher?


I also didn't feel it was framed within the guidelines of the challenge. There were comments by people who admitted to voting it high even though they didn't think the challenge was met. It makes me think any good photograph (and don't get me wrong, this one was beautiful) will be voted highly regardless of the challenge description.
Soemtimes I wonder what the point of the challenges are if people will interpret them so loosely that anything goes as long as it's good?

Bill

Message edited by author 2004-09-08 17:52:21.
09/08/2004 05:58:22 PM · #8
Originally posted by RedOak:



Zoomdak's picture, Sunbreak, doesn't comply with the theme at all. Where is the "foreground subject frames the rest of the image."?


The foreground subject is the trees and they frame the rocks in the distance.
09/08/2004 06:01:08 PM · #9
Of cause it meets the challenge and furthermore it deserves the Blue ribbon.

Message edited by author 2004-09-08 18:01:28.
09/08/2004 06:10:51 PM · #10
Originally posted by RedOak:

I'd just like to post my concern about the Framing contest. This means in no way disrespect to the owner of the shot, but i must bring attention to the fact that the picture doesn't follow the theme's requirement.

Zoomdak's picture, Sunbreak, doesn't comply with the theme at all. Where is the "foreground subject frames the rest of the image."?


Man, you need to bone up on photo terminology before you start accusing people like that. Zoomdak's shot cleerly meets the challenge requirements.
09/08/2004 06:12:25 PM · #11
I'd just like to post my concern about the Framing contest. This means in no way disrespect to the owner of the shot, but i must bring attention to the fact that the picture doesn't follow the theme's requirement.

I think it met the challenge perfectly.

Some people questioned your hope entry but not fitting the challenge isn`t reason for disqulification.
09/08/2004 06:24:20 PM · #12
It is framing... it's a perfect example actually.
09/08/2004 06:32:23 PM · #13
Originally posted by RedOak:

I'd just like to post my concern about the Framing contest. This means in no way disrespect to the owner of the shot, but i must bring attention to the fact that the picture doesn't follow the theme's requirement.

Zoomdak's picture, Sunbreak, doesn't comply with the theme at all. Where is the "foreground subject frames the rest of the image."?


In my opinion it would be just as stupid to disqualify the winning photo if not fitting the challenge as to disqualify it because someone thought it wasn't good enough. Images not fitting the challenge just get lowe score so there is noway the winning photo can be of that kind.

But when I look at the winning photo I see that I have myself somehow misunderstood this particular challenge because the tree in the foreground don't really frame the main subject properly in my opinion. But that is just what I think and of course no reason for any disqualifacaton.

Congrats to the winner!
09/08/2004 06:34:33 PM · #14
I was under the impression that your "frame", whatever it was, had to be the subject - the main subject. I had a few ideas for framing and was hoping to make it my first challenge. After reading a few threads that were posted before the challenge deadline, though, I didn't think they would fit the rule of having the fg the subject. I guess I should've entered anyway. :-/

09/08/2004 06:45:45 PM · #15
I believe what it comes down to is how people view elements and subjects. If your view is that anything in a photo is a subject then nearly everyone met the challenge. If your view is the subject should be the element of primary or very high interest then many did not meet the challenge.

I also think Beagleboy is being a little harsh with the "bone up" comment. After all, there is the standard concept of framing and then there is the definition given by the challenge description. The description of the challenge, IMO and the opinion of quite a few others, lead people to believe that the primary subject should be the frame and not whatever elements or subjects were in the background. However, if one didn't have anything interesting in the background, at least interesting enough to qualify as a subject then they wouldn't do well. This I think causes at least some confusion.

At the very least I would like to see challenge descriptions proofed before they go out so as to reasonably remove ambiguity and then written in larger bold text on the voting page. In a perfect world I would also like to see people voting taking into consideration not just the title of the challenge but the description as well. The descriptions often throw in a twist to make the challenge more challenging and looking back at past challenges I see many people apparently ignore these.

So just to add my two cents on the photo in question while I believe it does illustrate the traditional concept of framing it doesn't do a very good job of illustrating the concept as defined by the challenge. The trees, while a valuable contribution to the photo are, to me, more of a secondary subject if not an element. I can see how some would say the entire feeling of the photo would change with their absence but the background so completely dominates the concept of the photo that I don't think it could be argued that it is anything less than the primary subject and hence not really what this particular challenge was about.

Now one I though epitomized the challenge as described and was just a darn good photo was Konador's Eternal Resting Place. There is no doubt that the foreground framing is the subject, it has a good secondary subject with the other tombstones in the background, and it is technically and aesthetically pleasing.
09/08/2004 06:49:53 PM · #16
this is a stupid thread.

The photo meets the challenge 100%.
learn a little photography terminology before crapping on someones photo.
It was a perfect example of framing an image.

the challenge says nothing about 4 sides. it says nothing about the forground being in focus.

"Capture an image where the foreground subject frames the rest of the image."

the forground (branches) clearly fame the rest of the image. if the branches were absent from this image, it would be a TOTALLY different photo.
09/08/2004 07:00:35 PM · #17
Originally posted by ericlimon:

this is a stupid thread. ... learn a little photography terminology before crapping on someones photo....


This wasn't posted in the rant forum and the original poster treated the subject with respect. No need to turn it into a rant.
09/08/2004 07:03:06 PM · #18
Is it a beautiful picture? I would have to say yes.

Details: Capture an image where the foreground subject frames the rest of the image.

Did it meet the challenge in the stictist sense?
"Details: Capture an image where the foreground subject frames the rest of the image."
Well now that's a matter of opinion but I would of said no. My reason for this is because of the concept as I interpret the words "frames the rest of the image" as being a continuous frame and not a partial frame.

Is it worthy of disqualification? Most definetly not! It's just one persons interpretation of the challenge rule and it's individual interpretations like this that keep it interesting and challenging to find that winning edge that will gain the ribbon.
09/08/2004 07:07:05 PM · #19
Originally posted by 3DsArcher:


Details: Capture an image where the foreground subject frames the rest of the image.

Did it meet the challenge in the stictist sense?
"Details: Capture an image where the foreground subject frames the rest of the image."
Well now that's a matter of opinion but I would of said no. My reason for this is because of the concept as I interpret the words "frames the rest of the image" as being a continuous frame and not a partial frame.


Poorly worded challenges happen all the time. I'm glad to see that the voters understood the intent better than it was actually worded :)
09/08/2004 07:10:53 PM · #20
[quote=ericlimon] this is a stupid thread.

The photo meets the challenge 100%.
learn a little photography terminology before crapping on someones photo.
It was a perfect example of framing an image.

the challenge says nothing about 4 sides. it says nothing about the forground being in focus.

From this site
//howard2.lu-gats.com:1081/photography2.htm

(4) Framing
Using your environment to "frame" your photos can add a natural way to make your photographs more interesting. Anything in the foreground can be used including overhanging trees, branches, doorways, or other objects that can add depth and frame your composition.
__________
Dog wanting to get in from the cold near Killington, VT
image.php?IMAGE_ID=104095
09/08/2004 07:26:51 PM · #21
Despite the fact that not meeting the challenge is not a reason for DQ, if you were (hypothetical) to DQ this shot, you'd have to DQ a good THIRD of the challenge submissions. Since there were MANY, MANY, trees and or leaves as frames.
09/08/2004 07:43:30 PM · #22
Originally posted by jadin:

Despite the fact that not meeting the challenge is not a reason for DQ, if you were (hypothetical) to DQ this shot, you'd have to DQ a good THIRD of the challenge submissions. Since there were MANY, MANY, trees and or leaves as frames.


Are you saying this is a good or a bad thing?
09/08/2004 07:45:54 PM · #23
whether or not the community can agree that the shot "meets the challenge", the votes seem to indicate that it did because meeting the challenge, despite not being a "ruled requirement" is to be kept at the forfront of voting per the voting guidelines. So I think clara's comment pretty much covers the issue.

Meeting the challenge is not a reason to DQ, and the votes govern whether its felt the shot meets or not.
09/08/2004 07:47:21 PM · #24
Originally posted by RedOak:

I'd just like to post my concern about the Framing contest. This means in no way disrespect to the owner of the shot, but i must bring attention to the fact that the picture doesn't follow the theme's requirement.

Zoomdak's picture, Sunbreak, doesn't comply with the theme at all. Where is the "foreground subject frames the rest of the image."?


To answer that, I would say it truly does fit the challenge, maybe the details could be worded a bit better, but I think the mass of the people understood the challenge well.

Another thing that I find very improper, is that in every challenge there are some photos that truly do not fit the challenges, no question about it, and those photos are getting higher ratings than others that truly fits the challenges, but maybe aren't the best in it. That I find very unfair against those people that really tried and did read the challenge theme and details good enough to make no mistake about it.
The message that it gives is this;
If you haven't managed to reach over 4.5, just shoot a lot of good shots, you don't have to have the challenge theme in mind, then pick your best shot of the week, no matter what the theme in it is, and submit it in the challenge! Then you have a good chance of reaching over 4.5 if this photo is really good!

In the framing challenge are some photos not fitting the challenge (no doubt) that are placed up to 26% higher than photos fitting it. How fair is that? It's like a triple jumper can compete with a long jumper and doesn't get any penalties for it, I would say that he should only have is first 5-6 meter's jump qualified, and like that he would be placed at the bottom among other 'triple jumpers'.

Please, if there's absoulutely no doubt a photo doesn't fit in a challenge, then rate it with the lowest rating, 1 in this case! No matter how good it looks! It's just in a wrong competition!

Message edited by author 2004-09-08 19:51:21.
09/08/2004 07:50:35 PM · #25
With no real disrespect to RedOak starting this thread, but even a hinting for a DQ in this case is a bit disrespectful in itself I feel; the shot is not only outstanding, it is framed with the foreground quite well among many other nice things about it.

Camon RedOak, though you obviously have a right to an opinion, clearly you are well out in left field almost blind with yours' on this one.
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