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01/02/2014 05:58:50 PM · #51
Originally posted by Cory:


The attitude and actions of these condescending asshole cops is pretty much typical of my interactions with them...


I do hope that this generalization is limited to those police officers mentioned in the articles and not something that you would equate with all police officers in general.

I too find the actions of "Some" officers egregious, but it is some something that I would attribute to "all" those involved with police work. I also seem to recall that you did at one time mention that you had friends in a police force, so surely they can't all be "condescending assholes"

Just asking,

Ray
01/02/2014 06:41:44 PM · #52
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Cory:


The attitude and actions of these condescending asshole cops is pretty much typical of my interactions with them...


I do hope that this generalization is limited to those police officers mentioned in the articles and not something that you would equate with all police officers in general.

I too find the actions of "Some" officers egregious, but it is some something that I would attribute to "all" those involved with police work. I also seem to recall that you did at one time mention that you had friends in a police force, so surely they can't all be "condescending assholes"

Just asking,

Ray


You're absolutely right Ray. It's easy to forget that Police Officers are selected from the general population and are as varied as the people on your block.
01/02/2014 07:17:36 PM · #53
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Cory:


The attitude and actions of these condescending asshole cops is pretty much typical of my interactions with them...


I do hope that this generalization is limited to those police officers mentioned in the articles and not something that you would equate with all police officers in general.

I too find the actions of "Some" officers egregious, but it is some something that I would attribute to "all" those involved with police work. I also seem to recall that you did at one time mention that you had friends in a police force, so surely they can't all be "condescending assholes"

Just asking,

Ray


I was being very general.

Of course they're not all like this, that's why these make the news. However, the typical tactics which police use (and I assume must be trained to use) are shit. They're designed specifically to undermine rights and legal protections. Even if the cop is extremely polite while violating your rights the cop is still violating your rights.

Now, furthermore, I have been harassed, searched, raided, arrested, and they have yet to actually have reasonable cause to do so (and they have yet to actually find me with any contraband of any sort) .. Now why should I be particularly magnanimous? Mind you, they've also yet to pick up the mess they make, or to apologize for violating my rights. My lawyer has advised me that going after them is sure to only cause more trouble....

And beyond that, does your department (or whoever it is exactly that you work for) bill people for the medical expenses when you physically violate them in order to satisfy an unsubstantiated hunch? (never mind, you're Canadian... The 'lawful' medical procedures are probably free up there).... At the least, how do you feel about that being standard practice here?

What about the check points where people are manipulated and pressured into cooperating with unreasonable requests from the police?

Yeah, I don't know Ray, I know you work in the business, but brother, from where I'm standing ya'll aren't exactly honorable anymore.

01/02/2014 07:23:36 PM · #54
Originally posted by Trotterjay:



You're absolutely right Ray. It's easy to forget that Police Officers are selected from the general population and are as varied as the people on your block.


He's dead wrong, and so are you.

First, there is absolutely a set of personality traits that are either selected for, or self-selecting when it comes to recruitment of officers. So to say they are as varied as the people on your block is pretty much nonsense.

Secondarily, my beef isn't actually with individual officers who, as you say, are varied, but rather with what I see as policies that actually encourage and reward the violation of the rights of citizens. So taking me to task on this red herring is really rather useless, since it's not at all the problem nor the point.

I wonder if Ray's world up north works the same as down here - from what he says it's really a different world, but those brothers in blue have been known to lie regularly and without moral regard, especially when it comes to covering their own asses, so I do admittedly find it hard to fully trust what he claims.
01/02/2014 07:28:18 PM · #55
Originally posted by Cory:

I wonder if Ray's world up north works the same as down here - from what he says it's really a different world, but those brothers in blue ...

I think their trademark color is a beautiful red (which even I can distinguish!) ....

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_21992.jpg
01/02/2014 07:29:09 PM · #56
Originally posted by GeneralE:

Originally posted by Cory:

I wonder if Ray's world up north works the same as down here - from what he says it's really a different world, but those brothers in blue ...

I think their trademark color is a beautiful red (which even I can distinguish!) ....

Copyrighted_Image_Reuse_Prohibited_21992.jpg


AND THAT leads me to my next question Ray: Do you guys call yourselves brothers in red? ;)
01/03/2014 01:56:59 PM · #57
Originally posted by Trotterjay:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Cory:


The attitude and actions of these condescending asshole cops is pretty much typical of my interactions with them...


I do hope that this generalization is limited to those police officers mentioned in the articles and not something that you would equate with all police officers in general.

I too find the actions of "Some" officers egregious, but it is some something that I would attribute to "all" those involved with police work. I also seem to recall that you did at one time mention that you had friends in a police force, so surely they can't all be "condescending assholes"

Just asking,

Ray


You're absolutely right Ray. It's easy to forget that Police Officers are selected from the general population and are as varied as the people on your block.


While I'm sure there is an extremely remote chance that there's guy on the force who does little but smoke dope and play XBox while living in his mom's basement, I seriously doubt it.
01/03/2014 03:34:05 PM · #58
Originally posted by Spork99:

Originally posted by Trotterjay:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Cory:


The attitude and actions of these condescending asshole cops is pretty much typical of my interactions with them...


I do hope that this generalization is limited to those police officers mentioned in the articles and not something that you would equate with all police officers in general.

I too find the actions of "Some" officers egregious, but it is some something that I would attribute to "all" those involved with police work. I also seem to recall that you did at one time mention that you had friends in a police force, so surely they can't all be "condescending assholes"

Just asking,

Ray


You're absolutely right Ray. It's easy to forget that Police Officers are selected from the general population and are as varied as the people on your block.


While I'm sure there is an extremely remote chance that there's guy on the force who does little but smoke dope and play XBox while living in his mom's basement, I seriously doubt it.


You know, it's funny, but re-reading that, it would seem he may have made quite the Freudian slip.... (bolded for your convenience above...)
01/03/2014 07:12:18 PM · #59
Originally posted by Cory:


You know, it's funny, but re-reading that, it would seem he may have made quite the Freudian slip.... (bolded for your convenience above...)


In order for something to be a Freudian slip, I was under the impression that the action had to have been something done by a person, and that the comment was related to that event.

Methinks you are reading way too much into a typo that is wholly attributable to problems I am experiencing with my computer. Of late, I have had to cut and past just about everything... something to do with the Pop UP blocker.

Ray
01/03/2014 08:16:50 PM · #60
You know, it's about time someone put a reality check into this conversation.

Sometimes we are given to sweeping generalities, when specifics are needed.

Most people who are police officers are decent and dedicated men and women.
Just as those in any profession are.

Those folks who are profiled in the links supplied in this thread are in the minority.

01/03/2014 09:13:45 PM · #61
Originally posted by sfalice:

You know, it's about time someone put a reality check into this conversation.

Sometimes we are given to sweeping generalities, when specifics are needed.

Most people who are police officers are decent and dedicated men and women.
Just as those in any profession are.

Those folks who are profiled in the links supplied in this thread are in the minority.


Again, it's not the individuals... It's the policies they operate under.

Not to go all godwin here, but I'm quite certain most of the Nazi foot soldiers were simply delightful as long as you didn't happen to be a Jew.
01/03/2014 09:14:57 PM · #62
Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Cory:


You know, it's funny, but re-reading that, it would seem he may have made quite the Freudian slip.... (bolded for your convenience above...)


In order for something to be a Freudian slip, I was under the impression that the action had to have been something done by a person, and that the comment was related to that event.

Methinks you are reading way too much into a typo that is wholly attributable to problems I am experiencing with my computer. Of late, I have had to cut and past just about everything... something to do with the Pop UP blocker.

Ray


Really, I was mostly joking - but I notice that you've avoided every question of substance I posed to you... Telling IMO, but I do understand that it's not probably not acceptable for you to say anything that might reflect negatively upon your profession, no matter how true.

Message edited by author 2014-01-03 21:16:27.
01/03/2014 09:16:39 PM · #63
Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Trotterjay:



You're absolutely right Ray. It's easy to forget that Police Officers are selected from the general population and are as varied as the people on your block.


He's dead wrong, and so are you.



You know Cory, I've skirted around many posts regarding Police Officers. Not wanting to necessarily mention my employment in that area (just a personal choice, no other reason). However when you told me I'm "dead wrong" it just went right up my ass and left me no choice but to come back at you.

Cory, I spent much of my adult life working as full time Police Officer in a good sized municipality here in the east. I grew up with a Dad who was a cop as well. I've successfully passed the State Police selection process as well as the municipal police. I chose to go municipal.

I don't disagree that many current progressive PD's do look for certain personality traits and may test for that. However, in 1979 when I went through the academy I saw none of that. My written exam did not have any facets to it that reflected personality type. My polygraph was focused around what if any moral, (yes at the time moral), or criminal offenses were committed and lastly how truthful my answers were in general. My verbal exam was probably the least telling of all the exams and was very superficial centered more around the maturity of a potential young recruit than anything else.

Yes they (we) were/are trained to act and react uniformly in a specific way. That is true. However as much of an institution as police work is the individual's personality does and will come out in their behavior. I saw behavior by some Officers that to this day disturbs me. Back then we didn't have video camera's like they do today in station houses and dash mounted units. I think there is a lot more policing of the police today then there was back in the day. While conversely I saw behavior by the vast majority of Officers that made me proud to call them brothers & sisters. I have done nothing, in my fairly long life, professionally that I have been more proud of than serve the community as a Police Officer.

I worked with my brother officers day in and day out in all kinds of situations. So, with all due respect Cory, please don't tell me how dead wrong I am. I believe I'm drawing my opinion based on real life experience. You seem like a very opinionated individual. Please give consideration to the fact that maybe somebody else has some credible dialogue to offer that may be of value.

Message edited by author 2014-01-03 21:34:00.
01/03/2014 09:46:42 PM · #64
Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by sfalice:

You know, it's about time someone put a reality check into this conversation.

Sometimes we are given to sweeping generalities, when specifics are needed.

Most people who are police officers are decent and dedicated men and women.
Just as those in any profession are.

Those folks who are profiled in the links supplied in this thread are in the minority.


Again, it's not the individuals... It's the policies they operate under.

Not to go all godwin here, but I'm quite certain most of the Nazi foot soldiers were simply delightful as long as you didn't happen to be a Jew.

(sigh) you'll have to explain the 'godwin' reference, Cory.
Other than that, please remember that we vanquished the Nazis to maintain our standards of civilization.
So, please, no more sweeping generalities. Specific examples of "policies they operate under" would help your argument.
01/03/2014 10:02:30 PM · #65
Originally posted by Trotterjay:

Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by Trotterjay:



You're absolutely right Ray. It's easy to forget that Police Officers are selected from the general population and are as varied as the people on your block.


He's dead wrong, and so are you.



You know Cory, I've skirted around many posts regarding Police Officers. Not wanting to necessarily mention my employment in that area (just a personal choice, no other reason). However when you told me I'm "dead wrong" it just went right up my ass and left me no choice but to come back at you.

Cory, I spent much of my adult life working as full time Police Officer in a good sized municipality here in the east. I grew up with a Dad who was a cop as well. I've successfully passed the State Police selection process as well as the municipal police. I chose to go municipal.

I don't disagree that many current progressive PD's do look for certain personality traits and may test for that. However, in 1979 when I went through the academy I saw none of that. My written exam did not have any facets to it that reflected personality type. My polygraph was focused around what if any moral, (yes at the time moral), or criminal offenses were committed and lastly how truthful my answers were in general. My verbal exam was probably the least telling of all the exams and was very superficial centered more around the maturity of a potential young recruit than anything else.

Yes they (we) were/are trained to act and react uniformly in a specific way. That is true. However as much of an institution as police work is the individual's personality does and will come out in their behavior. I saw behavior by some Officers that to this day disturbs me. Back then we didn't have video camera's like they do today in station houses and dash mounted units. I think there is a lot more policing of the police today then there was back in the day. While conversely I saw behavior by the vast majority of Officers that made me proud to call them brothers & sisters. I have done nothing, in my fairly long life, professionally that I have been more proud of than serve the community as a Police Officer.

I worked with my brother officers day in and day out in all kinds of situations. So, with all due respect Cory, please don't tell me how dead wrong I am. I believe I'm drawing my opinion based on real life experience. You seem like a very opinionated individual. Please give consideration to the fact that maybe somebody else has some credible dialogue to offer that may be of value.


Well, first, thanks for the reasonable response.

My first, and biggest point here is that MUCH has changed in the last three decades. You went in at a time when Officer Friendly still existed.

I have to admit, it's funny that you chose the wording "just went right up my ass" given the topic of conversation here... I suppose I'm glad to return the favor for all those who's asses you've been up without permission, although sadly I don't think I can send you a bill for it as is SOP when it's you going up the ass. ;) It's also kinda funny that you say you didn't want to mention it, but I've had you pegged as a LEO for quite a while now from some of the previous things you've said - like it or not, as varied as you think you are, ya'll manage to stick out all the same.

While you've spend a good number of years as an officer, I've spent a roughly equal number of years as a citizen, many of those years I was constantly harassed and fucked with by the police because they assumed many untrue things. (based upon geographic location of my dwelling and my friends[funny enough, who are you friends with as a youth? Your neighbors! duh!])..

Your brothers have violated me and ignored my rights multiple times and in multiple cities and states, never once have they had actual cause outside of unsubstantiated suspicions, never once have they found anything to incriminate me in the least (quite a feat in fact, given just how easy it is to find SOMETHING to bust someone for when you're busy digging through everything they own)... Ya'll hate nothing more than someone who'll not cower to your perceived power, add to that the fact that I came from a crime ridden area and you have a perfect storm for me being harassed needlessly to the point that genuine and well deserved distrust and dislike of police officers was only the natural result... Sorry Jay, but you guys earned this from me.

I appreciate that you appreciate that current progressive (read paramilitary) police departments do look and test for certain personality types (think military-types with an attitude)...

Tell me, did you hold the law up when it was your own who were breaking it? (of course not, that's a rhetorical question...).. You say the vast majority made you proud? Really? Do you even realize how much of your training was designed to avoid nasty little inconveniences like the need to have actual suspicion of a crime before detaining and questioning a suspect, or to circumvent that really inconvenient document that sets out that unreasonable search and seizure shouldn't be allowed? Basically every modern department (I'd rather not debate 1979, I'm more worried about 2009) has carefully trained their officers to effectively not let those roadblocks stop you from getting an arrest and conviction. Like it or not, I find that dishonorable, and I think it tarnishes your entire profession.

Were it not for those things I would seriously love to do the job myself - but I find that I cannot even consider it seriously as I know that I would be required to commit horrendous acts against civilians every day as due course. (and yes, I do think violating constitutional rights is a horrible crime, one far more serious than many crimes for which people serve time).. There's no doubt that much of what is done actually is good and helpful. The problem is much like that you've probably faced in your career: Did you ever have to arrest and convict a really 'good' guy for that one little stupid and ill thought out act? You see, it's not what the police do that's right which counts, it's what they do that's wrong, and I've learned that from you guys - you don't care if someone feeds the homeless every weekend, and volunteers at the shelter, and donates to charity weekly, if you find them with a joint, you're perfectly happy to do what you can to hurt them as badly as the law allows. (and often worse, see the previous canicide video I posted... Going into a private home and shooting it up because someone has some disallowed plant matter in their home is just fucked up man)

I do appreciate your position here, but please don't tell me to not tell you you're wrong when you are. Your opinion is valid, and counts when we're talking about matters of opinion, however, you are in fact, offering your opinion on something that is testable fact, and your opinion doesn't align with fact. Your first position that I was calling you out on was the assurance that "Police Officers are (...) as varied as the people on your block".. That's bullshit, pure and unadulterated bullshit - my block has college kids, mentally disabled, pot smokers, maybe a meth addict or two, physically disabled, children, morbidly obese, illegal immigrants, and a dozen other 'types' that would NEVER become police officers. Sorry, but your assurance was simply wrong, no two ways about it.

ETA: Funny enough, despite our 'resumes' on the matter, I don't know that Ray, yourself, or I are really able to speak objectively about this - frankly we're all too close to it.

Message edited by author 2014-01-03 22:08:45.
01/03/2014 10:06:57 PM · #66
Originally posted by sfalice:


(sigh) you'll have to explain the 'godwin' reference, Cory.
Other than that, please remember that we vanquished the Nazis to maintain our standards of civilization.
So, please, no more sweeping generalities. Specific examples of "policies they operate under" would help your argument.


Godwin references someone bringing up Hitler/Nazis as a comparison in an argument... Typically it's a non-valid and destructive thing to do.

As far as specific examples of policies? Shit the thread is littered with them, but just to be as concise as I can, here it is:

I take issue with the policies that are intended to circumvent or otherwise remove protections which we have been specifically granted as citizens of this nation. To do so is often at least as much of a crime as any crime which may be solved via these methods.
01/03/2014 10:27:45 PM · #67
I'm going out for a walk, but I wanted to just summarize my feelings towards this thing.

First, I think everyone almost always does what they feel is 'right' at the moment, but that in no way precludes them from doing wrong.

Secondly, Ray and Jay, I want both of you to know that this really isn't anything personal - I know both of you to be generally good guys, it's your profession with which I take issue, not you yourselves. Do try to keep that in mind.

In the end, I'm motivated by fear - I fear every cop I see, and it's not because I'm doing something wrong, it's because you have a serious cost imbalance. It essentially costs you nothing to take the shot and see if you can find something, or to charge me with 5 bogus charges hoping I'll plead out to one. The entire system is balanced strongly in favor of enforcement, and strongly against the individual - which is exactly the inverse of how this was set up to work originally. Surely you can see that, and surely you can understand what is so upsetting about that situation.

For a specific example: Let's say you are a detective - you want to question someone. You take them into your interview room and do your thing... Now, what is this costing them? Hard to say, but at the very least it's inconvenient, but any reasonably smart person will immediately demand their attorney be present, which is a couple of thousand dollars immediately. If they have a job, it's likely that they're missing work and will have to explain the situation to their employer, which could cost them their job, or at the very least will reflect poorly upon them. If they don't have a job, at the very minimum the experience is extremely stressful, which can have a variety of nasty physiological effects upon the subject. If you decide to prosecute based upon what you hear, then the minimum cost will be nearly $10,000 in time and actual accrued expenses. ... .. Now, for the detective or officer, what do they have to lose? In this case the detective has nothing to lose, nothing at all, and is not only being paid, but is likely to be accruing overtime if the interview process lasts longer than an hour or two.

This is only one example of many, but recognize that even if the person is innocent, your attention will still penalize them, often heavily. There's no fairness in that.

The more concrete example, of course, is the example that this thread has brought up a few times, where the subject is subjected to forced medical procedures, and then billed thousands of dollars for those procedures that were done against their will.

Think about it... This is bad. Recognize it. Please. I beg you.

Message edited by author 2014-01-03 22:42:18.
01/03/2014 10:42:00 PM · #68
Cory,

I want this site to continue to be a source of enjoyment for me so I've said more than I ever intended to say on the matter. I'm moving on. Thank you.
01/03/2014 10:43:08 PM · #69
Originally posted by Trotterjay:

Cory,

I want this site to continue to be a source of enjoyment for me so I've said more than I ever intended to say on the matter. I'm moving on. Thank you.


Well, I want the same for you.. But to say that your response is disappointing would be an understatement.

Have a good night Jay.
01/03/2014 11:08:57 PM · #70
Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by sfalice:


(sigh) you'll have to explain the 'godwin' reference, Cory.
Other than that, please remember that we vanquished the Nazis to maintain our standards of civilization.
So, please, no more sweeping generalities. Specific examples of "policies they operate under" would help your argument.


Godwin references someone bringing up Hitler/Nazis as a comparison in an argument... Typically it's a non-valid and destructive thing to do.

As far as specific examples of policies? Shit the thread is littered with them, but just to be as concise as I can, here it is:

I take issue with the policies that are intended to circumvent or otherwise remove protections which we have been specifically granted as citizens of this nation. To do so is often at least as much of a crime as any crime which may be solved via these methods.


Cory - the policies are in place. In certain cases - as outlined in specific incidents referenced in this thread - they appear to have been violated.
Nevertheless, the policies that govern civilized behavior are in place, and have been proven to be upheld by the majority of peace officers in our country.
No one should castigate all for the violations of some.
01/04/2014 02:12:25 AM · #71
Originally posted by sfalice:



Cory - the policies are in place. In certain cases - as outlined in specific incidents referenced in this thread - they appear to have been violated.
Nevertheless, the policies that govern civilized behavior are in place, and have been proven to be upheld by the majority of peace officers in our country.
No one should castigate all for the violations of some.


Forgive me for face-palming a bit here, but... How did you get this from what I was talking about?

I'm not saying every policy is bad, nor am I talking about the policies that "govern civilized behavior"... Unless you actually think that unreasonable searches govern civilized behavior, or happen to think that there isn't a policy in place that regularly bills the person being medically searched for the costs of the unwanted medical intrusion.

Do you think the policy of teaching officers to 'ask' you to do things they could never legally order you to do is good as well? Do you think the policy of teaching officers how to manipulate people into cooperating with unlawful requests is good and governs civilized behavior?

I really, truly, hope that you do not agree with a single one of those policies, and that is just a tiny sample of the bad policies that are in place across the US today. I hope you can see that our modern police forces are operating in a way that is dishonorable in many respects. Yes, they do a hell of a lot of good too, but that doesn't excuse them.

Message edited by author 2014-01-04 02:13:48.
01/04/2014 08:18:35 AM · #72
Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by RayEthier:

Originally posted by Cory:


You know, it's funny, but re-reading that, it would seem he may have made quite the Freudian slip.... (bolded for your convenience above...)


In order for something to be a Freudian slip, I was under the impression that the action had to have been something done by a person, and that the comment was related to that event.

Methinks you are reading way too much into a typo that is wholly attributable to problems I am experiencing with my computer. Of late, I have had to cut and past just about everything... something to do with the Pop UP blocker.

Ray


Really, I was mostly joking - but I notice that you've avoided every question of substance I posed to you... Telling IMO, but I do understand that it's not probably not acceptable for you to say anything that might reflect negatively upon your profession, no matter how true.


Considering that I retired in 1996 after 30 years of service I do believe I would be at liberty to say just about anything I want. The problem is that I have never engaged in, witnessed or even heard of the types of activities you allude to in this discussion.

Were we saints... definitely NOT. Is there any possibility that peoples rights were infringed upon ABSOLUYTELY, but do try to remember that a lot has changed in the last few decades.

There is no denying that the activities depicted here are absolutely scandalous, but I do not believe for one instant that they are reflective of the majority of people employed in law enforcement.

Ray
01/04/2014 09:41:45 AM · #73
Originally posted by Cory:

Originally posted by sfalice:



Cory - the policies are in place. In certain cases - as outlined in specific incidents referenced in this thread - they appear to have been violated.
Nevertheless, the policies that govern civilized behavior are in place, and have been proven to be upheld by the majority of peace officers in our country.
No one should castigate all for the violations of some.


Forgive me for face-palming a bit here, but... How did you get this from what I was talking about?

I'm not saying every policy is bad, nor am I talking about the policies that "govern civilized behavior"... Unless you actually think that unreasonable searches govern civilized behavior, or happen to think that there isn't a policy in place that regularly bills the person being medically searched for the costs of the unwanted medical intrusion.

Do you think the policy of teaching officers to 'ask' you to do things they could never legally order you to do is good as well? Do you think the policy of teaching officers how to manipulate people into cooperating with unlawful requests is good and governs civilized behavior?

I really, truly, hope that you do not agree with a single one of those policies, and that is just a tiny sample of the bad policies that are in place across the US today. I hope you can see that our modern police forces are operating in a way that is dishonorable in many respects. Yes, they do a hell of a lot of good too, but that doesn't excuse them.


Cory - If I was ever in trouble in your state, I'd want you on my side. Your tenacity is remarkable.

Now, we (or at least I) have been talking about incidents vs policies.

Those incidents described in this thread are just that. Incidents.
When a motorist's rights were violated as described early in this thread, that was an incident.
Had many motorists received the same treatment, that could and would be described as a policy.

At this point, I'm going to suggest you stop slapping yourself upside the head, and I'll stop beating my head against a brick wall.

Let's all go and take some photographs.
01/04/2014 11:22:11 AM · #74
Originally posted by sfalice:



Those incidents described in this thread are just that. Incidents.
When a motorist's rights were violated as described early in this thread, that was an incident.
Had many motorists received the same treatment, that could and would be described as a policy.

At this point, I'm going to suggest you stop slapping yourself upside the head, and I'll stop beating my head against a brick wall.

Let's all go and take some photographs.


Sounds good. Let's do go take some photos!

..

And just to be clear, it really is standard practice to do many of the things I'm talking about. They aren't 'incidents' they really are 'policy'.. (for example EVERYONE who is medically searched is billed for the procedure, guilty or not, if they choose to subject you to this, you WILL be billed $5,000 or so.. I could go on, but won't..)

..

And to Ray - I'm sure you guys did things very differently - I have no experience with you or your department, and the same goes for Jay. It genuinely is possible that I've just been repeatedly exposed to the worst police in the US, and that you guys had nothing in common with them.. I'm not denying that, regardless, we still have a problem that shouldn't be swept under the rug.

Oh, and yes my dearest Alice - tenacious I am, and aggressive as well. :D (possibly one of the reasons why I've been subject to rather poor treatment from the police, I don't do 'submissive' very well)
01/06/2014 06:24:40 PM · #75
Check this one out. :)

Impressive level of collusion here.

Article from the Miami Herald.

And as a final insult, at least some people lost their cars... In my mind this means the entire department and the mayor were actually guilty of multiple counts of grand theft auto... Anyone wanna take bets on the punishment they receive?

..

As a further point of fairness to Ray/Jay - I've never experienced this shit outside of New Mexico or Florida... Perhaps it really is just these two states.

Message edited by author 2014-01-06 18:27:27.
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