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DPChallenge Forums >> Rant >> Inside the Republican Suicide Machine
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10/13/2013 05:01:54 PM · #1
I'd be fascinated to see how any of our uber-conservative DPCers respond to this incredibly in-depth piece of reporting, or indeed whether any of them bother to read it to the end, because it sure as heck debunks a lot of their claims...

Inside the Republican Suicide Machine
10/13/2013 06:26:06 PM · #2
Originally posted by Cory Booker for Senate campaign email:

We only have until Election Day on Wednesday -- yes, Wednesday -- to beat the man we've come to know as "Shutdown Steve" Lonegan.

Why do folks call him that? See for yourself what Lonegan has said:
 "I want them to keep government shut down till October 16th,

because a win in New Jersey means Democrats will fold."
"I don't care about working together and all that nonsense.
What the hell does that mean?"
There you have it. Cory Booker wants to bring together everyone who believes better things are possible. Steve Lonegan literally thinks working together is nonsense.


When the going gets tough, the tough - don't vote!
Originally posted by Dave Ross:


One of the things we're learning about our House and Senate during this shutdown is that certain things can't even be voted on! The Senate sends a resolution to the House to open the government - the House refuses to vote.

Then the House sends resolutions to the Senate to reopen parts of the government that everybody agrees ought to be reopened - and the Senate has been refusing to vote.

There are non-stop speeches about who's right, and what's best, and yet they avoid using the very mechanism that you're supposed to use to finally come to a decision on who's right and what's best, which is to vote.

We ordinary people get scolded for being bad citizens when we don't vote, but now we see that the very people who want us to vote, don't want to vote.

But of course there's a reason politicians don't want to vote, and the president revealed why when he called for a vote on the debt ceiling.

"If in fact, some of these folks really believe it's not that big of a deal they can vote no," said Obama. "And if it fails and we do end up defaulting, I think voters should know who voted not to pay our bills. So they can be responsible for the consequences that come with it."

There it is. Politicians don't want to be responsible for the consequences that come with taking a tough vote. But these politicians who don't want to take those tough votes, why did they run for office?

A politician who talks all the time about what we ought to be doing but never wants to be held responsible for the consequences of his opinions has no business in Congress. He needs to be either hosting a talk show or driving a cab.


It Was Quite A Week In Crisis Gulch
Originally posted by DaveRoss:

The most extraordinary development in the big federal budget showdown - was that the original reason for the whole thing evaporated. The fuss about Obamacare taking over the health care system ended up buried in a string of national embarrassments - over closed War Memorials and cutting off benefits to the widows of fallen soldiers - consequences which Congress was warned about before they started this.

Republicans say the president has been manipulating the shutdown for maximum pain - which he may well be doing.

But the inescapable fact is that by forcing the issue, they're the ones who gave him the chance to do it! They gave this president - a man they don't trust - a free hand to decide what to keep open and what to close! How dumb was that?

But the ultimate reversal, was hearing Tea Party Senator Ted Cruz making passionate arguments IN FAVOR of Government-run health care!

Here's the boiled-down version of that little gunfight.

"I would happily work with the majority leader to fund every bit of the VA as it is right now," said Cruz.

"Would the senator yield for a question? I'm wondering if your motion includes the full funding of the VA medical system, which is a government run health care system?" asked a fellow senator.

Said Cruz, "It is a promise we have made and it is unrelated to Obamacare."

"I just wanted to be clear that the fully government run, with government doctors system, is something that you are advocating," she clarified.

Replied Cruz, "The answer is yes."

So what exactly are we fighting about?
10/13/2013 06:26:42 PM · #3
Grabbing my popcorn. This should be interesting.
10/13/2013 07:02:57 PM · #4
This could be a fun challenge suggestion :)
10/13/2013 07:05:59 PM · #5
Originally posted by giantmike:

This could be a fun challenge suggestion :)

Red and Blue. I like it.
10/13/2013 07:08:27 PM · #6
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

I'd be fascinated to see how any of our uber-conservative DPCers respond to this incredibly in-depth piece of reporting, or indeed whether any of them bother to read it to the end, because it sure as heck debunks a lot of their claims...

Inside the Republican Suicide Machine


My Conservative associates won't read it at all because it comes from a liberal rag, and therefore contains untruths and propaganda. The more firmly committed of them are remarkably closed-minded.
10/13/2013 07:16:21 PM · #7
What he said, sadly. Their own idols admit what they've done, but the supporters deny it.
10/13/2013 07:21:29 PM · #8
Propaganda?! I'm shocked.
10/13/2013 07:31:29 PM · #9
Originally posted by Garry:

Propaganda?! I'm shocked.


Hey - all three sides are guilty. My neck's sore from shaking my head...
10/13/2013 08:01:48 PM · #10
and then he kicked away the stool
10/13/2013 08:24:17 PM · #11
Originally posted by skewsme:

and then he kicked away the stool


I hope he cleaned his shoe afterwards. ; )

Message edited by author 2013-10-13 20:24:53.
10/13/2013 08:30:31 PM · #12
I present this without comment....

*********************

Fascism for America
From The New York Times

May 22, 1932 The hour has struck for a fascist party to be born in the United States. In the face of the most critical financial situation in the history of the country, Washington presents the amazing spectacle of more special groups seeking to get their fingers in the national treasury than ever before. From every section and from every layer of our economic life, the embattled lobbies have descended upon the capital. Bills to appropriate millions for the aid of special classes or industries are tossed into the House of Representatives, at the moment when federal finances are strained to the breaking point. Congress has one plain duty, to balance the budget, and to refuse every subtle appeal for money that is not foreseen by that budget. In the cities, where authorities confess themselves unable to cope with the sinister enterprise arrayed against them; in state capitals and county towns, where special privilege is bought and sold; wherever patronage is distributed and crime protected, there is the rumble of indignation among householders, the anger and disgust of taxpayers, which presage the gathering of moral forces into overt movement.

Someone will give the signal. It may be a mechanic, coming out of his engine-room, wiping his hands upon oily waste, in despair at the insecurity of his home; it may be a veteran teacher like Peter the Hermit preaching a crusade shocked to find the holy sepulchre of our national liberty in the hands of vandals. It may be the clean youth and imagination of a Charles Lindbergh, calling upon men of goodwill to join him in a party of law and order. It may be the sagacity and experience of a Henry Ford, summoning men to match the organization of the underworld with a still more potent organization. In every part of the country men are waiting for the call, and when it is heard, there will be a roar of assent from a million throats. The elements are assembled for the formation of this kind of fascism in the United States, composed of householders, heads of families and taxpayers. The stage is set.

10/13/2013 08:40:07 PM · #13
History holds no example of fascism or tyranny borne from government spending on the people. Every instance grows from the desperation of wealth inequality focused (justifiably or not) on an assigned scapegoat.
10/13/2013 08:57:05 PM · #14
I think if we left the government shut-down, and only re-opened those parts that we realize we actually need over time, we'd all be quite surprised at how much of this bloated corpse we could actually cut away. Just one conservative photographer's opinion.

P.S. I love how an article from Rolling Stone of all sources is being presented as objective, in-depth fact finding, when four lines down there's a link to "Meet The Eight Tea Party Morons Destroying America". It's a little naïve to think just the Republicans or the Democrats are to blame for our problems.
10/13/2013 09:02:30 PM · #15
Since I'm the one that "presented" it, I think I need to say here that I never claimed it was "objective": but it's clear they dug DEEP to produce this one, it's not just a surface gloss.
10/13/2013 09:10:09 PM · #16
It's definitely in-depth, but I would stop short of calling it actual "reporting" considering that almost every paragraph has a left-slanted opinion written into it. Don't get me wrong, I am a conservative, especially in fiscal matters, but I also like to read Huffington Post, Slate, Politico, etc., to get a full view of everyone's opinions and then forge my own. But to me, this particular article is drivel.
10/13/2013 09:57:20 PM · #17
Originally posted by ecmguy:

But to me, this particular article is drivel.

The quotes, timeline and content are not make-believe. You may take issue with some disparaging adjectives, but the facts remain true... and arguably justify the disparagement.
10/13/2013 10:36:01 PM · #18
oops

Message edited by author 2013-10-13 22:36:46.
10/13/2013 10:37:43 PM · #19
Originally posted by ecmguy:



P.S. I love how an article from Rolling Stone of all sources is being presented as objective, in-depth fact finding, when four lines down there's a link to "Meet The Eight Tea Party Morons Destroying America". It's a little naïve to think just the Republicans or the Democrats are to blame for our problems.


they're not morons?
10/13/2013 10:47:04 PM · #20
Are they? Curious to know who's welcome here.
10/13/2013 10:58:58 PM · #21
Nope. Couldn't finish it. It sounded like gleeful piling on. If one wants to learn what is really wrong with the Republican party, I'd look to a relatively conservative agency like the WSJ or The Atlantic. No use asking the "enemy" (who is likely to have a distorted or uninformed view of reality).

That there are deep divisions within the Republicans, nobody should argue. That it is unusual for a political party, one could question. The joke always went, "I belong to no organized party. I'm a Democrat." should reveal that divisions are a normal part of the process.

A real article might explore the reasons why Tea Party members think Obamacare is synonymous with the devil and then evaluate them on their merit in some neutral manner (probably never truly possible). A real article might look at the polarization of both parties and the reasons why the process of negotiation that has existed for decades (or longer) has broken down.
10/13/2013 11:20:00 PM · #22
This is just nobody's opinion, but I think the downfall of congress started with the birth of CSPAN and CNN on cable and was accelerated by the internet and blogging.

It's not possible for politicians, liberal, conservative, to work with the other side or negotiate without being "on stage" at all times. Nobody likes the idea of back-room politics, but the reality of it all is that, unless you can talk and negotiate without being constantly under a magnifying glass, its impossible to do the deal without alienating some portion of your electorate. If the electorate were reasonable, that wouldn't be a problem, but you only have to look at who gets elected, the sound bites used, and the attacks and distortions in campaigns to realize that we are all getting what we asked for. Unfortunately, its not what we wanted, or what we need.


10/13/2013 11:51:26 PM · #23
Fantastic. The Republican party has been hell-bent on manipulating facts and figures to create as deep a schism as they can in the electorate, and when a "liberal" source exposes the FACTS about this cynical manipulation, that's unacceptable because their bias is showing?

Well, the NY Times is maybe a little less liberal, albeit still liberal. Have a gander at this article about what's RIGHT so far with Obamacare in its infancy and see how that's going:

Obamacare: The Rest of the Story
10/14/2013 12:33:44 AM · #24
Originally posted by Bear_Music:

Fantastic. The Republican party has been hell-bent on manipulating facts and figures to create as deep a schism as they can in the electorate...

Worth noting that Obamacare, the thing so bad as to require a principled stand that shuts down government, now hardly gets a mention in Congressional talks. When the ACA gambit failed, Republicans scrambled over to a feigned imperative of budget reduction, despite plummeting deficits and having already agreed to a CR at sequestration levels that Boehner admitted went too far, and then to demanding a budget reconciliation committee that Democrats had already requested (and been snubbed 19 times) and repeal of a medical device tax that Democrats already favored. The House has literally been reduced to begging for things that Democrats would have willingly given up, but NOT as a condition for passing necessary legislation.

The prospects of any deal will be weighed against this reality: Senate Democrats and the President will never give up anything that might validate the tactic of taking hostages to force minority policy, and the Tea Party faction that cooked up this scheme will never settle for anything LESS than a significant ransom for that hostage. Democrats know that if they give in it will be open season for policy demands at each and every deadline, and with public opinion mostly in their favor they have little incentive to do so. The Tea Party has only contempt for facts or reason, so count on them to take the craziest path possible. The old guard Republicans are left with doing whatever they can to save face knowing that this will ultimately come down to agreeing to mostly Democrat terms (and Boehner losing his position). Bank on it.
10/14/2013 01:32:40 AM · #25
Check out this article. It's on the very same topic, but it is vastly more informative about the thinking and motivation behind the strategy. And while you suspect the author disagrees with the ideas expressed by Mr. Needham, he leaves plenty of room for the reader to form their own conclusion. THIS is what I would look for in an article.

WSJ opinion interview with Michael Needham
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