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10/22/2013 12:12:20 PM · #226 |
Originally posted by daisydavid:
I was using a Monty Python quote from the Spanish Inquisition. These threads are our currency just as much as are our photos. We extract meaning from illusions and trade them between ourselves while we jostle for place in the pack without being aware of it for the best part. Communicating to each other through our photos is so subjective and selective. The threads take up the slack, I post because I believe there are kernels of inspiration in interaction. |
Yes. Also, Ni!
Comments on low votes are not to be swallowed whole as instruction. Nor should they be relentlessly chewed over for illumination, for they are inherently dark. They should rather be cautiously nibbled, as inspiration. Like a magic mushroom.
Message edited by author 2013-10-22 12:14:43. |
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10/22/2013 12:14:27 PM · #227 |
As the non-commenting silent type, posting in this thread may ruin my shy mystique (plus the eloquent prose by John (aka  DaisyDavid) generally leaves my keyboard feeling completely useless. So, really...why try?!).
What?! Is the  Ubique Boutique open again?!!!!!!
Welcome back Paul!!!!
::promptly faints::
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10/22/2013 12:50:29 PM · #228 |
I see the "point" of this exercise to get people to comment on photos they would otherwise pass over, in much the same way that the challenge topics are intended to get us to shoot in ways we wouldn't ordinarily.
Trying to comment on every entry is discouraging to many, but I think much the same effect could be obtained by commiting to comment on every fifth entry, or every tenth, or whatever, as long as one is voting on the randomly-presented entries and sticks to the pattern. This might encourage more commenting.
For those who compain about it being hard to comment on the pictures "in the middle" again I think that's part of the point of the exercise -- being able to articulate why a picture is neither "good" (votes of 7-10) nor "bad" (1-3) should help with one's own future compositions. |
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10/22/2013 04:57:26 PM · #229 |
I appreciate the time and effort people took to comment upon my shot, and all shots. For the most part, the comments were insightful and interesting.
I agree very much with John(daisydavid) and wish more people did.
I also understand that comments are the life blood of the site, not just votes. feedback.
That being said, I hope the participant comment-givers realize that this is an exercise in commenting to find out about yourself- what you bring to the table with your comments. What the critic says, reflects more on the critic than the artist.
I would hope that if you have nothing to say, or don't "get" an image, it is probably best that you don't try to "instruct" through a critical comment, but rather, leave a note about the impression the picture left on you. Everyone will be better served. |
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10/22/2013 05:47:05 PM · #230 |
The (re)appearance of ubique was enough to drive me out of my self-imposed ban on the forums -- if only just to say, Welcome back, Paul!
And as long as I'm here, I'll join in the vote-and-comment fun. Count me in for at least 20%. Starting now... |
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10/22/2013 05:53:40 PM · #231 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
I appreciate the time and effort people took to comment upon my shot, and all shots. For the most part, the comments were insightful and interesting.
I agree very much with John(daisydavid) and wish more people did.
I also understand that comments are the life blood of the site, not just votes. feedback.
That being said, I hope the participant comment-givers realize that this is an exercise in commenting to find out about yourself- what you bring to the table with your comments. What the critic says, reflects more on the critic than the artist.
I would hope that if you have nothing to say, or don't "get" an image, it is probably best that you don't try to "instruct" through a critical comment, but rather, leave a note about the impression the picture left on you. Everyone will be better served. |
Hmmm... I don't know if I agree with the bit about 'getting' an image...
When it comes to photography (and art in general) isn't perception the 'truth' which is greater than the 'truth' of the intent of the artist?
Your position seems to imply that the creator is the one who defines the work, but in my mind it's the viewer who does so. |
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10/22/2013 06:07:01 PM · #232 |
Originally posted by blindjustice:
I would hope that if you have nothing to say, or don't "get" an image, it is probably best that you don't try to "instruct" through a critical comment, but rather, leave a note about the impression the picture left on you. Everyone will be better served. |
I was looking forward to this side challenge, but with all the negative feedback here and in PMs, I'm not going to make it through the whole challenge. I'm at 28 out of 84 right now, and will try to do more tonight, but I wish I had done it all in the first couple of days. Because all of the moaning and complaining has taken any interest out of it for me.
I found it extremely interesting to see the comments and the votes given. I don't care whether I agreed with the comment or not. I don't care if I agreed with the vote or not. I was going to receive that vote anyway -- I liked having an explanation to go along with it.
I'm discouraged by the number of people who have said (in PMs) that they are not going to comment anymore unless they have something positive to say. What a loss. :(
Seriously -- people have their own opinions. Perhaps they are lacking in tact -- but they still have opinions. I'd rather hear the opinion, positive or negative.
Are we really that thin-skinned that everything has to be sugar-coated?
As far as "instructing" through a critical comment (which I quoted here), this is how I tend to comment. If there's something that doesn't hit me right in a photo, I try to figure out what I would have done differently, wondering if it would have made it better. I usually put that in the comment. That's how I comment, because that's how I look at a picture. What works and what doesn't work. Why it doesn't work, and how might it have worked a bit better.
What a stupid shame that this didn't make people want to comment more -- that it had the opposite affect and that many people will be commenting less because of the backlash.
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10/22/2013 06:25:01 PM · #233 |
Finally, 6:05 pm on day 7:
You have rated 84 of 84 images (100%) in this challenge.
You have commented on 84 images (99%) in this challenge.
You have given an average score of 5.8095.
As to these discussions of the quality of criticism given, this is a democracy where words may be bad or good but either way cannot be suppressed. We can shout down what we don't like but that rarely works because it only encourages those who make the most noise who thrive on the controversy. So shout back if it provides satisfaction, but most of us will respond by simply ignoring the noise.
You who are offended by irresponsible comments should take comfort that you are not alone.
Personally, I would appreciate any feedback (pushback) on my comments, either here or by PM.
Message edited by author 2013-10-22 18:28:30. |
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10/22/2013 06:44:05 PM · #234 |
Originally posted by tvsometime:
Personally, I would appreciate any feedback (pushback) on my comments, either here or by PM. |
Thanks for the effort, Tom. Your comment was spot on and appreciated (I was one of your 5 scores). |
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10/22/2013 06:48:03 PM · #235 |
This is a challenge to leave a comment on every image. Some comments are half assed and lacking, (some of mine included). I am not shouting anyone down, simply saying, some people might like a different approach, a more open minded commenting style. I am not asking them to give glowing reviews of all shots. That suggestion is asinine.
If you are offended by my suggestion that some people reexamine their comments, sorry.
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10/22/2013 06:54:55 PM · #236 |
| What are y'all smokin? (those of you blaming this thread for your future apathy, that is) Only a couple of us have beeyootched about cruddy comments on this thread. And speaking for myself, what got me riled was one incorrect statement about the nature of the photo subject, written as if there were no other way it could be. I don't give a rat's patootie that they also didn't like the image. That said, I don't think every comment is golden just because it is made. Personally, I value elicited comments more than forced ones, for the most part, which is why I don't go for these quota challenges. And one last thing, remember that the image entrants didn't volunteer the way the side challenge commenters did. If you comment, even if you're 'donating' comments, do it because you want to. Not because the commentees oughta appreciate it. |
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10/22/2013 07:05:31 PM · #237 |
Originally posted by bvy:
The (re)appearance of ubique was enough to drive me out of my self-imposed ban on the forums -- if only just to say, Welcome back, Paul!
And as long as I'm here, I'll join in the vote-and-comment fun. Count me in for at least 20%. Starting now... |
Woo Hoo!!! |
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10/22/2013 07:20:58 PM · #238 |
Originally posted by skewsme:
{...}And one last thing, remember that the image entrants didn't volunteer the way the side challenge commenters did. If you comment, even if you're 'donating' comments, do it because you want to. Not because the commentees oughta appreciate it. |
Didn't they? Do we need to have another checkbox on submission reminding submitters that they are, in reality, volunteering their work to be judged and criticized?
Isn't the very act of submitting to a challenge an implicit request for votes and comments? |
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10/22/2013 07:35:31 PM · #239 |
snip Originally posted by skewsme:
I don't give a rat's patootie... |
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10/22/2013 08:12:35 PM · #240 |
oh pamb, love that :)
cory, isn't this particular challenge extraordinary? |
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10/22/2013 08:25:11 PM · #241 |
Originally posted by hihosilver:
::promptly faints:: |
Have you ever fainted belatedly? Inquiring minds need to know :-) |
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10/22/2013 09:04:23 PM · #242 |
Originally posted by skewsme:
oh pamb, love that :)
cory, isn't this particular challenge extraordinary? |
To some degree yes.
Insofar as the fact that people are commenting on EVERY vote, that is quite extraordinary.
But the concept of honest commenting, especially on the entries that you don't find compelling, isn't (or at least shouldn't be) extraordinary...
..
Then again... Perhaps Wendy's right and the collective 'we' is now so thin-skinned as to need every bit of substance coated in four layers of sugar. |
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10/22/2013 09:48:55 PM · #243 |
Originally posted by Cory:
But the concept of honest commenting, especially on the entries that you don't find compelling, isn't (or at least shouldn't be) extraordinary...
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This doesn't follow anything. No one has argued that. Why are you writing it.
Originally posted by Cory:
Then again... Perhaps Wendy's right and the collective 'we' is now so thin-skinned as to need every bit of substance coated in four layers of sugar.
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Another fabrication. Or should I say, confection. |
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10/22/2013 10:40:01 PM · #244 |
Nice try, but y'all haven't put me off of commenting. For what it's worth, I often do ten at a time. I just comment on ten in a row, starting with one that grabbed my attention. After that ten, I go on for a bit, then if another grabs my attention, I'll do ten more. Works for me. Hope you guys don't mind, but I'll probably continue that.
Of course, some days I don't comment at all unless you REALLY grab my attention. So keep trying. :-) |
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10/22/2013 11:03:44 PM · #245 |
| From the bottom of the heap here - and from one who was out-of-town and couldn't enter or comment on all entries this time - I truly appreciate all comments, especially critical ones. Sometimes I love one tiny part of my photo but forget that I should look at the whole thing before concluding it's lovely. (And only by having some brave soul point out what might be technically wrong, or where my composition maybe went wacko, am I starting to improve my self-evaluation skills.) Sure I don't always agree with my overall score, after all, there is no accounting for what might be a bit of bad taste on my end, but even in just a couple of months participating here I'm learning to think more about what I am doing. So thanks to you brave souls! |
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10/23/2013 01:46:52 AM · #246 |
| I was away from keyboard most of the voting period. So I left exactly zero comments, but I did love all your comments, especially those who have a different esthetic than I have. Frankly we tend to comment on shots that resonate with us, and this week I got quite a few comments that I did not agree with, and that is more than just O.K., it is great! The worst thing we can do in our own quest to be better artists is to be a slave to the score, and the realization that others are looking for something else in our photographs than we wish to present is a good thing. It does not mean that we are on the wrong track, but that we are on a different track. |
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10/23/2013 02:23:44 AM · #247 |
Originally posted by skewsme:
Originally posted by Cory:
But the concept of honest commenting, especially on the entries that you don't find compelling, isn't (or at least shouldn't be) extraordinary...
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This doesn't follow anything. No one has argued that. Why are you writing it.
Originally posted by Cory:
Then again... Perhaps Wendy's right and the collective 'we' is now so thin-skinned as to need every bit of substance coated in four layers of sugar.
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Another fabrication. Or should I say, confection. |
The idea of this entire side challenge was to comment on all the entries - and that means a lot of people were commenting on images that they didn't find compelling... One hopes they were being honest, so, from my perspective, that followed the challenge and the side challenge quite well in fact.
You said it was extraordinary - if not in the way that I posited, then how so?
Nevermind... It turns out that you're quite right. It was a very extraordinary challenge in fact.
Message edited by author 2013-10-23 02:40:00. |
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10/23/2013 08:02:58 AM · #248 |
| I appreciate all the comments I received and I definitely want to join in whenever this challenge is done again. |
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10/23/2013 12:33:36 PM · #249 |
When I started this thread, I wasn't thinking about wise commenters helping naïve photographers... after all, on this site the photographers and commenters are the same people.
One reason I started this was to undermine the power of the score.
On this site, a "score" is the average vote of everyone who looks at your image. Now that you have a dozen or so people explaining their votes, you understand that there is no consistency whatsoever in what people think. If 7 people hate your image and give you reasons that you think are silly, but 2 thoughtful people loved your image and gave you high scores with reasons that match your intentions... your score will be low. Does that mean you failed?
And is success the opposite? Does success mean creating an image that people like for reasons you don't care about, while turning off people whose insights you treasure?
In other words, caring only about score is counting people instead of making people count. |
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10/23/2013 01:02:37 PM · #250 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
.......And is success the opposite? Does success mean creating an image that people like for reasons you don't care about, while turning off people whose insights you treasure? |
Very well said! Create art for the sake of art, not scores.
I was a little disheartened when low votes poured in, but later on as the comments followed I realised that not everyone thinks alike so I won't let the scores bother me anymore. Thanks for this side challenge thread Don.
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