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10/10/2014 12:32:12 PM · #251 |
Certainly some of the conversations here can be unpalatable and it can be difficult to see the value in them in moving us forwards.
However, I do console myself that people tend to moan about those things they care about or are passionate about.
Sometimes though, we can become a parody of ourselves and advocate a more extreme version of our thoughts. I'd encourage people to think as much about what people need to hear as much as what you/we need to say when posting in forums - we know the mood in forums can sometimes put people off and even those people offering a critique of the way some things or people are probably aren't intending to contribute to a situation that turns people off/away.
Just some musings... |
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10/10/2014 12:47:03 PM · #252 |
Originally posted by Mike:
Originally posted by snaffles:
*deep sigh*  Mike...this isn't Worth1K. I think anyone who finds Advanced restrictive should head over there. This is meant to be a photography site, not a PhotoChop one.
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but its ok if we gimmick up the images with texture overlays. got it. |
Just for the record, I really wish that had been put up to a member vote. I know I wouldn't have supported it, but am surprised to see you mention it, as I'd have figured you would have supported the idea. |
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10/10/2014 01:19:14 PM · #253 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Mike:
but its ok if we gimmick up the images with texture overlays. got it. |
Just for the record, I really wish that had been put up to a member vote. I know I wouldn't have supported it, but am surprised to see you mention it, as I'd have figured you would have supported the idea. |
It wasn't really about *us* though, it's about they-who-may-come. There's this whole valid world of photography that's getting bigger and bigger of people expressing themselves with camera phones and their associated tools, and we wanted to make room for them. We're trying to edge our way towards inclusiveness :-) It's worth noting there wasn't a single DQ in the recent Camera Phone challenge... |
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10/10/2014 01:25:40 PM · #254 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by Mike:
but its ok if we gimmick up the images with texture overlays. got it. |
Just for the record, I really wish that had been put up to a member vote. I know I wouldn't have supported it, but am surprised to see you mention it, as I'd have figured you would have supported the idea. |
It wasn't really about *us* though, it's about they-who-may-come. There's this whole valid world of photography that's getting bigger and bigger of people expressing themselves with camera phones and their associated tools, and we wanted to make room for them. We're trying to edge our way towards inclusiveness :-) It's worth noting there wasn't a single DQ in the recent Camera Phone challenge... |
Are you saying that changes made to DPC and it's rules are in hopes of bringing people in, regardless of what the members think? Your statement makes it sound as if the current members weren't even considered. |
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10/10/2014 01:36:48 PM · #255 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Are you saying that changes made to DPC and it's rules are in hopes of bringing people in, regardless of what the members think? Your statement makes it sound as if the current members weren't even considered. |
I don't think it's what he's saying ... I believe it was the persistent requests from current members which led us to consider the change to include textures in the first place.
I'm not sure there has ever been a change at DPC which has met with universal member approval. The only change I can remember which has been reversed due to member outrage (and overall ineffectiveness) was when we tried to require comments to accompany certain low votes, which is (ironically) probably the #1 most-often suggested/requested change. |
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10/10/2014 02:24:32 PM · #256 |
Originally posted by MattO:
Your statement makes it sound as if the current members weren't even considered. |
That's an incredibly negative interpretation, and it actually kind of offends me. We don't do ANYTHING without taking into account several things: where the site has BEEN (its history), where the site is AT (the current state of affairs), and where the site is HEADED (the future of DPC). We're always seeking to strike a balance between the desires of the current members and our need for progress and growth. It's hard work finding that middle ground.
I think you'll find that so far the addition of the "texture allowance" hasn't caused any problems at all. There hasn't been a mass flocking to and abuse of this new allowable component of our images. If there should BE problems, we will address them. Isn't that what we're trying to do all along? |
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10/10/2014 03:10:08 PM · #257 |
Originally posted by Aesop:
The Dog In The Manger
A Dog was lying in a Manger on the hay which had been put there for the cattle, and when they came and tried to eat, he growled and snapped at them and wouldn't let them get at their food. "What a selfish beast," said one of them to his companions; "he can't eat himself and yet he won't let those eat who can." |
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10/10/2014 03:19:32 PM · #258 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by MattO:
Your statement makes it sound as if the current members weren't even considered. |
That's an incredibly negative interpretation, and it actually kind of offends me. We don't do ANYTHING without taking into account several things: where the site has BEEN (its history), where the site is AT (the current state of affairs), and where the site is HEADED (the future of DPC). We're always seeking to strike a balance between the desires of the current members and our need for progress and growth. It's hard work finding that middle ground.
I think you'll find that so far the addition of the "texture allowance" hasn't caused any problems at all. There hasn't been a mass flocking to and abuse of this new allowable component of our images. If there should BE problems, we will address them. Isn't that what we're trying to do all along? |
Don't be offended. Your words say "It wasn't about us, it's about those that might come" Yes I paraphrased. I assumed your words meant what they say. It's not about us(the current members) its about them(future members)
Matt |
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10/10/2014 04:36:00 PM · #259 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
We don't do ANYTHING without taking into account several things: where the site has BEEN (its history), where the site is AT (the current state of affairs), and where the site is HEADED (the future of DPC). |
Since this is the seeming litmus test for action at DPC could you provide a one line summary for each station of where we have been, where we are, and where we are going? |
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10/10/2014 05:04:31 PM · #260 |
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Since this is the seeming litmus test for action at DPC could you provide a one line summary for each station of where we have been, where we are, and where we are going? |
That's just MY summary of what we take into account. I'm not going to even try to nail it down for you. All of SC have been here for a long time, so we're aware of DPC's history. We're all living in DPC's present, and we all care about DPC's future. That's all I meant to say. |
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10/10/2014 05:11:09 PM · #261 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
It wasn't really about *us* though, it's about they-who-may-come. There's this whole valid world of photography that's getting bigger and bigger of people expressing themselves with camera phones and their associated tools, and we wanted to make room for them. We're trying to edge our way towards inclusiveness :-) It's worth noting there wasn't a single DQ in the recent Camera Phone challenge... |
that's why i'm anti texture (at dpc)
every argument against allowing more editing that members here throw out there "this isn't worth1000, get it right in camera, this is a learning site, this is supposed challenge", this flies right in the face of all that.
you are catering to a group of people who disregard photographic technique and coverup poor execution with texture. people use textures to add mood or atmosphere to an image that has none.
at least least before advance editing, the rules had distinction, you could argue they had a purpose, now they don't. IMO, its as bad as what basic editing used to be when people could use topaz to overcook in basic.
i don't think anyone knows what this place wants to be anymore. if you open this place up to the freedoms of "camera phones and their associated tools" you might as well just have two rulesets, minimal editing and no editing restrictions.
Message edited by author 2014-10-10 17:12:23. |
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10/10/2014 06:35:49 PM · #262 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Well, that was quick. Back to Rant we go :-( |
Bear, would you please elaborate a bit on your statement above?
It did seem to me that the discussion, while vehement, was still respectful and people are
trying to make valid arguments. It would seem to go with the territory of "I may not like
what you are saying, but defend your right to say it."
(Unless of course, it gets out of hand with name-calling and the like.)
Is the only place for that kind of discussion in Rant? If not, then I simply don't see the
problem with leaving The Future of DPC on the front page where everyone can see it - and participate. |
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10/10/2014 08:09:48 PM · #263 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by DrAchoo:
Since this is the seeming litmus test for action at DPC could you provide a one line summary for each station of where we have been, where we are, and where we are going? |
That's just MY summary of what we take into account. I'm not going to even try to nail it down for you. All of SC have been here for a long time, so we're aware of DPC's history. We're all living in DPC's present, and we all care about DPC's future. That's all I meant to say. |
For a minute I was excited that there was an actual roadmap, but I gotcha. |
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10/10/2014 08:12:31 PM · #264 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Well, that was quick. Back to Rant we go :-( |
Bear, would you please elaborate a bit on your statement above? |
No, I'm going to recuse myself from this one. I'm annoyed, and I don't want to be. I'll let some other SC take over on this. Whatever they want to do is fine with me. Over and out. |
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10/10/2014 08:20:10 PM · #265 |
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Originally posted by sfalice:
Originally posted by Bear_Music:
Well, that was quick. Back to Rant we go :-( |
Bear, would you please elaborate a bit on your statement above? |
No, I'm going to recuse myself from this one. I'm annoyed, and I don't want to be. I'll let some other SC take over on this. Whatever they want to do is fine with me. Over and out. |
NO, Bear, you cannot get away with that. You are SC, and SC can and indeed do get annoyed. But they
do not (thankfully) let that interfere with their SC duties.
Forgive me for putting this in an open forum (albeit Rant) but you stuck this perfectly valid thread
back in Rant. It is up to you to tell us why you made this decision. Not delegate this to some other
SC member. |
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10/10/2014 08:32:50 PM · #266 |
| This "perfectly valid thread" was IN rant forever. It was suggested that it be pulled out of rant, so I cleaned it up and did so. It got so personal so fast that another SC went and HID it because they didn't know what to do. It showed up as a discussion point in the SC forum. Instead of leaving it hidden, I moved it back where I'd found it. Everything is as it was less than 24 hours ago, and that's how it's gonna stay unless I get overridden. I'm just one SC. |
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10/10/2014 08:55:19 PM · #267 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Forgive me for putting this in an open forum (albeit Rant) but you stuck this perfectly valid thread back in Rant. It is up to you to tell us why you made this decision. Not delegate this to some other SC member. |
The thread was put back in Rant because that's exactly what it is and where it should have remained. I suspect Robert was annoyed by someone who has no idea of the background discussion lecturing THE most active and engaged SC member on his duties. Stepping away is a good example of not letting that interfere with his duties. The only way this thread gets out of Rant is if it (or a new one) concentrates on constructive suggestions and visions for the future. |
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10/10/2014 09:03:39 PM · #268 |
Thank you.
This explanation undoubtedly makes it a valid removal.
Doing it without such an explanation is far more difficult.
It is too bad that we cannot have a decent discussion on The Future of DPC without altercation,
but that's the way it is, I guess. |
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10/10/2014 09:20:12 PM · #269 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Thank you.
This explanation undoubtedly makes it a valid removal.
Doing it without such an explanation is far more difficult.
It is too bad that we cannot have a decent discussion on The Future of DPC without altercation,
but that's the way it is, I guess. |
Part of the tightrope SC must navigate is just this very thing: allowing people to voice their (often passionate) opinions and ideas while preventing the thread from devolving into personal attacks (which take the form of deriding other people's ideas).
It is impossible to please all the people all of the time. There is a contingent which wants things to stay as they are (if it ain't broke, etc.). There is another contingent which feels this place is dying a slow death because it is not keeping up with the times.
We encourage healthy discussions about such things, but the lack of civility in the forums is NOT acceptable. This does not mean you may not rant and rave - only that doing so will guarantee the thread is moved to the proper location.
Message edited by Bear_Music - semantic edit :-). |
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10/10/2014 09:58:44 PM · #270 |
Originally posted by tanguera:
[quote=sfalice] Thank you.
We encourage healthy discussions about such things, but the lack of civility in the forums is NOT acceptable. This does not mean you may not rant and rave - only that doing so will guarantee the thread is moved to the proper location. |
In some instances, in other threads, those posts that were not civil were simply excised and the remaining material continued to be discussed.
I still suggest that "The Future of DPC" does not belong in Rant where many of us fear to tread.
Nevertheless, I bow to SC on this matter. |
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10/11/2014 10:12:56 AM · #271 |
Originally posted by jgirl57:
This thread is sad to me.. being a newbie and just learning, it has been amazing on the things I have been able to pick up.. the membership cost I could pay tons more on tutorials and other websites.. due to this site, I no longer shoot in AUTO MODE and that is a HUGE HUGE deal to me.. When I shot my Eclipse moons, I had everything set up and the camera settings under 5 minutes and I didn't have to think about what the settings needed to be on, it just went there... it was all because of what I have learned on DPC and my close photography mentor friends.. |
Sometimes a little misery and whining is merely an opportunity to reflect on how good it really is. Julie, you figured it out. Just like a camera, a tripod, PhotoShop, and a good, knowledgeable friend, DPC is a fantastic tool if you want it to be.There is a silent group of very happy, grateful photogs here, and out there due to whatever happenstance in their lives caused them to move on whose lives as photographers have been enriched beyond measure because of this site. Many of us feel that our education, knowledge, and experiences have been incomparable, and not something that could have been acquired anywhere else. I am constantly reminded of the wide and varied perspectives that I have about photography from the community here. We have a world-wide pool of knowledge and experience, and there's something about the willingness to help and share that is truly exceptional. I am constantly made aware of this when I'm around groups of photographers at local events. My knowledge base of photography and editing is so much more wide and varied because of what I've learned here. It's kind of weird being in a group of "accomplished" photographers at a local level who don't have some of what I'd consider rudimentary skills needed to participate on DP Challenge.
I feel bad for the newbie to a certain extent, but honestly, from the way he was talking, he's simply not ready, and/or willing to allow himself to let DPC be for him what it has been for so many of us. Can't handle the challenge of minimal? Seriously??? It's not DPC "What can we do to accommodate you" It's DPCHALLENGE. I guess I don't get it to a certain extent, but I've always wondered about the grumbling, the demanding change, this nitpick, that complaint.......there's a set of rules, here's the game, bring on your best. That's what the heck a challenge is.......you versus the next person, within the rules. It's not a democracy, it's not a discussion.....here it is......take a picture of a {fill in the blank}, edit it using only these allowed tools, and see how ya did. It's the challenge that makes the site what it is as a tool to learn, to push yourself, and to do better. It's simply how YOU challenge YOURSELF to do better!
Originally posted by jgirl57:
Is it worth the cost? Sure.. do I love getting less than 5? Who does? In the end I don't care about the scores and I wonder if that drives ppl away sometimes .. this site holds more pack and punch and is a vital lifeline of learning, respect for others art and photos and a group of fabulous people who have taken out their time to show their talents and share what they know.. it means a lot to me. |
The scores are nothing more than an index. As any of us who have been here a while will tell you, the scores over time will mean less than what you derive from your experience with your entry. Some even claim that the scores don't mean anything to them any more......(I think they fib......I *still* like to score well even after eight years!) But it's certainly not all about the scores.
Originally posted by jgirl57:
Will I pay? I sure will, where else can I play around and start to test new waters forcing me with others pushing me along the way when I get freaked out or intimidated by stuff which is way out of my league of knowledge? This site helps me to keep going and it keeps me from making me be stuck in one spot of learning.. its the push that I really love here and I so appreciate all the support I have received in along the way.
It takes me to a new level of learning and that is why I joined. |
The only limitation in your learning here is your own reluctance to try new and different things. Or holding on to some notion about this, that, or the other thing being etched in stone. For every fact/rule someone has for you about photography, there are a half dozen folks here that have a different, and effective way for them to break those rules.
Originally posted by jgirl57:
I want my playground to stay around a bit :0)) If someone's in a funk about this site whether to pay or don't, it is ultimately their choice.. don't let that attitude pass by me..if others are showing this of why not they pay, why should I even bother if people don't care about things anymore? Its time for fire under some pants to get that fire going again and passion of that you once had to keep shooting and participating, or perhaps adopt a newbie, helping newbies like me because I know I am not the only one around and I am sure others just lurk and are scared to post something... we need all the help we can get :-)) Now, I have to learn my processing which is a pain in a half LOL.. People don't see the punch and quality here? TEACH US! SHOW US! We are still learning.. its what we want to know and learn.. sure looking at others and voting on other's photos are great, but it doesn't teach us the details of how to get there. I want to develop my own style not copy someone else. |
Again......in most cases, the bitching and complaining is more of a statement to the complainer than any lacking on the part of the site. Nobody has to participate, nobody has to enter any specific challenge, nobody has to take anyone's advice or critique to heart if they choose not to. Point is.......that's THEIR loss.
Originally posted by jgirl57:
Everyone has a passion and one thing we hold in common, is that we love our cameras and our photos. I will be sad if Langdon ever pulls the plug here, but I will never forget where my main learning has come from. Everything else is an excuse. |
Got that right! It's good that there are people who make suggestions and work with the site to make improvements, but ultimately, it's what you make of DPC for YOUR needs, how YOU develop yourself, the people YOU turn to that will make this place valuable. Anyone will tell you that I go off on these praise rambles a couple times a year, but it's only because I am so amazed at what I've reaped from DPC. Be selfish.....participate, glom onto multiple mentors, ask a million questions, utilize DPC for what it can do for YOU........it will turn your paltry $25 a year into pure gold.
Originally posted by jgirl57:
Shoot and be happy :-)) |
Always!
Julie, I hope you didn't mind me tagging onto your post, but you definitely seem to be one of those people who "get it" as to what DPC can be. Keep up the good work!
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10/11/2014 10:03:56 PM · #272 |
Originally posted by Paul:
Sometimes though, we can become a parody of ourselves and advocate a more extreme version of our thoughts. I'd encourage people to think as much about what people need to hear as much as what you/we need to say when posting in forums - we know the mood in forums can sometimes put people off and even those people offering a critique of the way some things or people are probably aren't intending to contribute to a situation that turns people off/away.
Just some musings... |
Well stated. I must agree.
Other threads have made me decide not to renew...
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10/12/2014 05:11:00 PM · #273 |
Originally posted by RandyRedford:
Here I was hoping for challenges that were photography related.
Something like this flickr group except with voting.
www. flick. com/groups/photochallenge-org/discuss/ (can't post url links)
Instead I'm welcomed by the asshole brigade for bringing up valid points.
Originally posted by MAK:
If you don't like the site, follow the arrows to the exit and mind the door. |
You guys know how to make a person feel welcome. With friends like these, who needs enemies?
And I'm out for good. You guys can keep your sandbox. |
''
It would seem that you read the other comments posted and did not agree with them, which is of course your perogative.
To suggest that you were welcomed by the "Asshole Brigade" truly is a bit over the top.
Life is relatively simple...go out, look at things, encounter new people and don't go back to those things you don't like or earnestly believe will irk you.
Some of us are quite contents with the venue, even with all its' foibles... this place truly is like family, and unless you spend some time here you will never get to appreciate that.
Ray |
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10/12/2014 05:19:52 PM · #274 |
Originally posted by Leo:
Well stated. I must agree.
Other threads have made me decide not to renew... |
considering the forums are free and you need to pay to enter photography challenges, forum activity seems like a weird reason not to renew...
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10/21/2014 11:54:23 PM · #275 |
Originally posted by Nadine_Vb:
Originally posted by posthumous:
the future of dpc:
[...]
Cory says Langdon will be back any minute, on a skiff from Avalon...
Bear Music is finally on the Site Council... |
This sounds nearly apocalyptic |
The apocalypse is here baby!
Message edited by author 2014-10-21 23:54:56. |
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