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09/01/2013 11:19:47 PM · #176 |
| Just think, if '1' voting was banned, we'd have to contend with the "terrible twos!" |
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09/01/2013 11:23:33 PM · #177 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Just think, if '1' voting was banned, we'd have to contend with the "terrible twos!" |
Extrapolate this far enough and we will be LWDPC: Lake Wobegone Digital Photo Challenge, where EVERYONE is better than average.
I remember when President Eisenhower expressed considerable dismay when informed that fully half of Americans were of below average intelligence... |
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09/02/2013 12:45:49 AM · #178 |
Some of the same voting going on in the grain challenge as well!
He who has eyes to see!
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09/02/2013 12:53:21 AM · #179 |
Originally posted by Neat:
Some of the same voting going on in the grain challenge as well!
He who has eyes to see! |
???! Can you clarify what you mean? I just looked at the votes for the Top Ten and there's not a single vote of 1 given (actually not much in the way of 1 to 3's altogether). |
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09/02/2013 12:54:59 AM · #180 |
Originally posted by sfalice:
Just think, if '1' voting was banned, we'd have to contend with the "terrible twos!" |
But now? 6 is above average and 5 is below average. Where do we vote for average? Bet you add 5.5 to the voting scale a lot of below average will be reconsidered. Just think about it; an image that fits the bill, technically well executed which is not in someones mind above average must be a 5, ie. below average. |
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09/02/2013 12:55:13 AM · #181 |
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Neat:
Some of the same voting going on in the grain challenge as well!
He who has eyes to see! |
???! Can you clarify what you mean? I just looked at the votes for the Top Ten and there's not a single vote of 1 given (actually not much in the way of 1 to 3's altogether). |
no it's reverse!
Message edited by author 2013-09-02 00:55:20. |
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09/02/2013 12:59:18 AM · #182 |
Originally posted by Neat:
Originally posted by glad2badad:
Originally posted by Neat:
Some of the same voting going on in the grain challenge as well!
He who has eyes to see! |
???! Can you clarify what you mean? I just looked at the votes for the Top Ten and there's not a single vote of 1 given (actually not much in the way of 1 to 3's altogether). |
no it's reverse! |
I'm confused. Sorry. :-{ Past my bedtime and I'm still not seeing it. Quick check of the bottom three and they have no 10's. Perhaps it will be clearer in the morning after some sleep. |
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09/02/2013 01:01:49 AM · #183 |
I have made up my mind. I was right in the first place to Not vote where I play. The reason is simple, where I play I am somewhat more sensitive whereas where I did not play I am more 'forgiving'. I am human and I just will never again vote where I play.
Voting is emotional. For example mysterious; because some doubted that I stayed in the rules, they voted me low, I saw that, and yet admitted indirectly or directly the score was not rectified. Do I complain? No, but it is a fact. |
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09/02/2013 01:05:24 AM · #184 |
Originally posted by docpjv:
I have made up my mind. I was right in the first place to Not vote where I play. The reason is simple, where I play I am somewhat more sensitive whereas where I did not play I am more 'forgiving'. I am human and I just will never again vote where I play.
Voting is emotional. For example mysterious; because some doubted that I stayed in the rules, they voted me low, I saw that, and yet admitted indirectly or directly the score was not rectified. Do I complain? No, but it is a fact. |
Don't complain either... I love sharing that ribbon with you. ;) |
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09/02/2013 03:59:36 AM · #185 |
Originally posted by Cory:
Originally posted by docpjv:
I have made up my mind. I was right in the first place to Not vote where I play. The reason is simple, where I play I am somewhat more sensitive whereas where I did not play I am more 'forgiving'. I am human and I just will never again vote where I play.
Voting is emotional. For example mysterious; because some doubted that I stayed in the rules, they voted me low, I saw that, and yet admitted indirectly or directly the score was not rectified. Do I complain? No, but it is a fact. |
Don't complain either... I love sharing that ribbon with you. ;) |
Cory and I am soooo out of my skin. Imagine my future champion and all out of the blue we sit next to each other, unfortunately not on a blue.
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09/02/2013 07:23:53 AM · #186 |
And we need a change in laws; any pre-posted image on whatever page and then entered in DPC should not be allowed. Obviously posters are not wrong, they are within the rules. However, I hate the idea of posting images on public pages and still it is allowed in challenges within all the other rules. Wake-up call as much as voting practices.
Actually, is it against any rule to apply reverse voting? If not, nobody can be found guilty. Please do not talk to me about the spirit of our challenge rules as apposed to the letter.
And what about 'integrity' challenges; self portrait, from my back-yard, within 50 M from home etc? We all know those villains are out there, raping themselves for a better score.
These issues, each and everyone of them have been covered in the past. Now that we are headless, really, now we want to ban and castrate and tar and feather and cry in our pretzels. These problems have been festering. We all know that there were problems. |
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09/02/2013 08:25:32 AM · #187 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Nobody knows how the exact placements will shake out, but it's not hard to estimate which photos will score well and which won't. So as a loose example, if you consistently place in the top 10 and manage to vote a 1 to the entire top 20 while rating the bottom 10 no less than a 7, it's fairly evident that you not only clearly recognize and appreciate the DPC standard of "good," but that you're making a concerted effort to give low votes to those images while voting up the lousy ones. If the challenges you don't enter show the opposite pattern, with high votes going exclusively to the top finishers and low votes to the bottom end, then you forfeit the excuse of a different aesthetic. Likewise, if you have a voting range of 1-3 when you enter and 8-10 when you don't, that's not a difference of artistic opinion, it's a blatant (though ineffective) attempt to influence the voting results. |
A while back I did some simulation of the reverse (inversion) voter and the ease at which they could be spotted. I appreciate that the SC continues to work to keep the voting as fair as possible. I agree that this kind of behavior can have a minimal effect on the overall standings but the voter still has no control of the votes on their own image. Reverse voting will never take an image from the middle of the pack to the top ten. It's a disruptive but futile practice...
Link |
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09/02/2013 08:29:47 AM · #188 |
Originally posted by docpjv:
And what about 'integrity' challenges; self portrait, from my back-yard, within 50 M from home etc? We all know those villains are out there, raping themselves for a better score.
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sometimes following the rules is just not somebody's style. |
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09/02/2013 09:19:56 AM · #189 |
Originally posted by docpjv:
And we need a change in laws; any pre-posted image on whatever page and then entered in DPC should not be allowed. Obviously posters are not wrong, they are within the rules. However, I hate the idea of posting images on public pages and still it is allowed in challenges within all the other rules. Wake-up call as much as voting practices. |
+ 1 Yeah, this priming of the pump, intentional or not, should definitely be outlawed.
I've seen this happen several times, whether it's here in a thread started by the photog, usually in a sort of 'help me with the editing of this pic' - or on Facebook in a 'help me choose an entry' post. Both methods ensure that at least a few dozen DPCers are going to see the shot and be predisposed to vote favourably on it.
In one case which is firmly lodged in my mind, because I liked the subject of the shot, the photog devoted most of the thread to the editing of that one image. I could hardly believe it when I saw it not only in competition, but end up with the blue, an FS if memory serves. Gee, now that's a real head-scratcher!
Now, if someone posts a request for help with editing and/or choosing an image that is safely stashed in their Workshop and can only be accessed by a link to it sent by PM to the respondent, that's another thing altogether. It limits the number of people who'll see it and even if they do eventually vote on it (I always ask peeps to not vote on it) it should have minimal impact on your overall score. |
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09/02/2013 10:22:42 AM · #190 |
Originally posted by snaffles:
Originally posted by docpjv:
And we need a change in laws; any pre-posted image on whatever page and then entered in DPC should not be allowed. Obviously posters are not wrong, they are within the rules. However, I hate the idea of posting images on public pages and still it is allowed in challenges within all the other rules. Wake-up call as much as voting practices. |
+ 1 Yeah, this priming of the pump, intentional or not, should definitely be outlawed. |
This is (possibly) a separate problems ... perhaps those interested can start a new thread to discuss and propose a possible solution.... |
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09/02/2013 10:35:53 AM · #191 |
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by docpjv:
And what about 'integrity' challenges; self portrait, from my back-yard, within 50 M from home etc? We all know those villains are out there, raping themselves for a better score.
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sometimes following the rules is just not somebody's style. |
Then we have a few options;
1. Rules are not rules but guidelines. You may follow them or not.
2. Rules are rules and if broken, pay your dues. Rules are explicit not implicit.
3. If not your style, do not enter and if you do, take your punishment and go sit in the corner for a week. (From Expert Rules; "... You are encouraged to keep your entries photographic in nature, and voters are encouraged to rate entries accordingly.)
4. What do we stand for? Anything goes, accept that rules are not important and carry no weight among us so just shut up and accept I am not a rule-person.
5. "Fit in or F___k" off (FIFO) goes well with 2 and 3 above.
I do not want to be involved in this however, I am not blind and just maybe I can say two words that can cause understanding or fresh thoughts. |
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09/02/2013 11:07:55 AM · #192 |
Originally posted by docpjv:
Originally posted by posthumous:
Originally posted by docpjv:
And what about 'integrity' challenges; self portrait, from my back-yard, within 50 M from home etc? We all know those villains are out there, raping themselves for a better score.
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sometimes following the rules is just not somebody's style. |
Then we have a few options;
1. Rules are not rules but guidelines. You may follow them or not.
2. Rules are rules and if broken, pay your dues. Rules are explicit not implicit.
3. If not your style, do not enter and if you do, take your punishment and go sit in the corner for a week. (From Expert Rules; "... You are encouraged to keep your entries photographic in nature, and voters are encouraged to rate entries accordingly.)
4. What do we stand for? Anything goes, accept that rules are not important and carry no weight among us so just shut up and accept I am not a rule-person.
5. "Fit in or F___k" off (FIFO) goes well with 2 and 3 above.
I do not want to be involved in this however, I am not blind and just maybe I can say two words that can cause understanding or fresh thoughts. |
It's difficult to enforce integrity. I would leave it up to individual conscience. My comment, btw, was a wiseacre reference to the recent Not My Style challenge, whose ribbon winners ignored the challenge topic and won because of it. |
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09/02/2013 11:10:48 AM · #193 |
| Does anyone know of a thread that will make me a better photographer? Thanks |
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09/02/2013 11:15:05 AM · #194 |
priming the pump is frankly not too much of a problem. Anonymity is an elegant and convenient lie that we tell ourselves, as styles and faces and location repeat.
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09/02/2013 11:17:14 AM · #195 |
I do not want to be involved in this however, I am not blind and just maybe I can say two words that can cause understanding or fresh thoughts. [/quote]
It's difficult to enforce integrity. I would leave it up to individual conscience. My comment, btw, was a wiseacre reference to the recent Not My Style challenge, whose ribbon winners ignored the challenge topic and won because of it. [/quote]
in fact the one in the tenth place should
have got the BLUE ribbin |
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09/02/2013 11:41:59 AM · #196 |
Originally posted by sempermarine:
Does anyone know of a thread that will make me a better photographer? Thanks |
you're welcome! |
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09/02/2013 12:15:55 PM · #197 |
Originally posted by tnun:
Originally posted by sempermarine:
Does anyone know of a thread that will make me a better photographer? Thanks |
you're welcome! |
Define "Better"
(There, that should send this thread into extra reams of bandwidth)
:)
mea culpa, I see extra bandwidth has already been reserved
Message edited by author 2013-09-02 12:22:26. |
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09/02/2013 12:19:04 PM · #198 |
Originally posted by tnun:
Originally posted by sempermarine:
Does anyone know of a thread that will make me a better photographer? Thanks |
you're welcome! |
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09/02/2013 12:56:21 PM · #199 |
Originally posted by Melethia:
"The snapshots with no time, effort or skill involved."
Hey!! That's MY style.... :-)
I don't get a lot of 1s, but I sure get my fair share of 4s!! |
that's me too. well, the time part, and somewhat the effort.
after working 8 hours, commuting for 1-1.5, then cooking dinner, cleaning up and playing with a 2year old until bedtime, reading stories and singing to him, i have little time left to put on a big show photographically. i'm quite content with the scores i get as i understand they're somewhat a reflection of my lack of time, but also just that i have a quirky sense of what i like and want to enter. Anybody can make it to YANAP, but it takes true vision to make the low 4's without ending up on the far side of passable. ;) |
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09/02/2013 03:07:49 PM · #200 |
Originally posted by snaffles:
I've seen this happen several times, whether it's here in a thread started by the photog, usually in a sort of 'help me with the editing of this pic' - or on Facebook in a 'help me choose an entry' post. Both methods ensure that at least a few dozen DPCers are going to see the shot and be predisposed to vote favourably on it. |
More than once I have entered work here that was intended for posting elsewhere (be it commercial or commissioned) and do not feel that gave me any advantage in scoring because the venn diagram overlap of those two groups that saw the two posings was basically one person, me. Rather than putting in a new rule banning submissions posted elsewhere in the vastness of the web, simply remind voters that if you have seen the image before, or think you know who took the image, do not vote on that image. If I respond to a "which one should I pick" or "How should I edit this shot" thread, I know I can not be impartial, so it is my obligation to skip over that image in the vote. |
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