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09/03/2004 02:57:03 PM · #1 |
I think the master's challenge is a great idea because it gives the ribbon winners a chance to go against only each other. I wonder if we'll still get to view and vote on them?
This also brings up my next point. I think it would kick ass for us people without ribbons to have a challenge that ribbon winners can't enter! I believe this would kick ass because it gives people with less experience on this site a chance to ribbon. And as much as I think the current 'open' and 'member' challenges should remain exactly how they are, I wouldn't mind a challenge where I didn't have to 'beat' the sites best (could leave that to the master's challenge?) Or how about an unribboned challenge judged only by ribbon holders!
That's about all :)
Message edited by author 2004-09-03 15:00:00.
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09/03/2004 02:59:50 PM · #2 |
Personaly, I'd prefer not to have the bar lowered. I see plenty of variety in the top spots... While we get a lot of repeat winners, it seems like every challenge has at least one ribbon won by a photographer whose name I don't recognize. I'd be bummed if my only victory was a competition where the top photogs were excluded. For me it's about learning, not winning.
Message edited by author 2004-09-03 15:00:02.
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09/03/2004 03:00:36 PM · #3 |
Originally posted by magicshutter:
I think the master's challenge is a great idea because it gives the ribbon winners a chance to go against only each other. I wonder if we'll still get to view and vote on them?
This also brings up my next point. I think it would kick ass for us people without ribbons to have a challenge that ribbon winners can't enter! I believe this would kick ass because it gives people with less experience on this site a chance to ribbon. And as much as I think the current 'open' and 'member' challenges should remain exactly how they are, I wouldn't mind a challenge where I didn't have to 'beat' the sites best (could leave that to the master's challenge?)
That's about all :) |
But if you win a ribbon in the "unribboned" challenge, wouldn't that be like a minor league championship?? ...I want to beat the best!
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09/03/2004 03:05:25 PM · #4 |
Originally posted by lenkphotos:
Originally posted by magicshutter:
I think the master's challenge is a great idea because it gives the ribbon winners a chance to go against only each other. I wonder if we'll still get to view and vote on them?
This also brings up my next point. I think it would kick ass for us people without ribbons to have a challenge that ribbon winners can't enter! I believe this would kick ass because it gives people with less experience on this site a chance to ribbon. And as much as I think the current 'open' and 'member' challenges should remain exactly how they are, I wouldn't mind a challenge where I didn't have to 'beat' the sites best (could leave that to the master's challenge?)
That's about all :) |
But if you win a ribbon in the "unribboned" challenge, wouldn't that be like a minor league championship?? ...I want to beat the best! |
I see all sides. If you want to play with the big dogs, play. I never said it would be mandantory. I believe we should have the choice to play against big leage photographers. I find myself somewhere in the middle. I don't believe the shots I enter are judged on the quality of shot it is, I am seeing the stats reflect a comparisson. I'm not saying I should beat anyone, but my photos are worth more than a 4.6 or a 5.5. They stay low because people compare them because it's a COMPETITION (hence the ribbon). Nothing is judged individually, it's judged against the other entries.
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09/03/2004 03:07:46 PM · #5 |
| so then you make a challenge for non ribbon winners...and a challenge for 3 ribbons or more...then everyone with one or two ribbons are left out. How ya gonna please everyone? |
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09/03/2004 03:08:49 PM · #6 |
Originally posted by grigrigirl:
so then you make a challenge for non ribbon winners...and a challenge for 3 ribbons or more...then everyone with one or two ribbons are left out. How ya gonna please everyone? |
whew...that means I don't have to suffer the pressure of either competition, being a 2 ribboner! ;o)
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09/03/2004 03:09:09 PM · #7 |
Personally, I think that the Brown Ribbon should be a real ribbon, kinda like a 'E' for Effort? I can see it now, a new Icon, brown, ribbon shaped, but smeared downward, the DPC Symbol of Utter Crap...
However, I think it should be optional whether you accept such a dubious honor:)
I know I would...
Message edited by author 2004-09-03 15:10:02.
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09/03/2004 03:09:14 PM · #8 |
Originally posted by magicshutter:
I don't believe the shots I enter are judged on the quality of shot it is, I am seeing the stats reflect a comparisson. I'm not saying I should beat anyone, but my photos are worth more than a 4.6 or a 5.5. They stay low because people compare them because it's a COMPETITION (hence the ribbon). Nothing is judged individually, it's judged against the other entries. |
Just track your "relative" progress. You field of competition is fairly consistent in the number of top photographers, so if you see a trend from 4.8 to 5.1 you know you've improved a lot. Isn't the amount of improvement more significant than the raw number you get?
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09/03/2004 03:12:50 PM · #9 |
Originally posted by grigrigirl:
so then you make a challenge for non ribbon winners...and a challenge for 3 ribbons or more...then everyone with one or two ribbons are left out. How ya gonna please everyone? |
You can't please everyone. With my idea there would be four challenges, one for pretty much every level. You would have Novice for people new to the site, and new to the challenge part (having a time limit, executing themed ideas, etc. as not everyone is experienced with this) You would have your open challenge (open to anyone registered as it is now). you would have the member challenge (for people who have hung around, like the feel and competition) and you would have the masters challenge (obviously for the photographic royalty within the site that most of us can't hold a candle to on our best day and with our best photo). Now obviously it takes more than just my words on a post to make it work, and there will always be people who pick apart the idea and say it won't work, and it's not fair, but the fact is anything can work if people continue to make adjustments when problems arise as nothing is fool proof.
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09/03/2004 03:15:05 PM · #10 |
Originally posted by computerking:
Personally, I think that the Brown Ribbon should be a real ribbon, kinda like a 'E' for Effort? I can see it now, a new Icon, brown, ribbon shaped, but smeared downward, the DPC Symbol of Utter Crap...
However, I think it should be optional whether you accept such a dubious honor:)
I know I would... |
OK, alternate Idea: For every picture you vote 3, 2, or 1, it activates a check box, which you check if you want to recommend it for Brown Ribbon. That would stop people from submitting black photos. The SC's could recommend that you only check the box if the picture meets the Challenge...
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09/03/2004 03:21:18 PM · #11 |
No faiiiiirrrrrrr !!!!!!
Edit: :P
Message edited by author 2004-09-03 15:21:32.
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09/03/2004 03:28:30 PM · #12 |
I like the idea of a non-ribbon challenge, but for goodness sakes don't give the winner a dpc ribbon!
It really would be like getting the Stanley Cup for a minor hockey league championship!
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09/03/2004 03:37:52 PM · #13 |
For me at least, there is no value to winning a ribbon if the competition is removed. It's kind of like winning the gymnastics gold medal when all the best gymnasts have boycotted the games.
However, if it is so important to you, just look at the profiles of all the photos that beat you. If they all have ribbons, consider yourself a winner.
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09/03/2004 03:37:59 PM · #14 |
We have Master's for 3+ Ribbons (Which is a REALLY low number, IMO), we should have Journeyman for 1-2 Ribbons, and Novice for No ribbons, PLUS a Newbie Challenge (Anyone on the site less than 6 months) AND the Fresh Fish Special Challenge(People who have entered less than 6 Challenges)... That should cover everyone, AND give the new folks a couple of extra chances to learn by trying...
And Only the Novice, Master, and Journeyman would get DPC ribbons. Or Nobody gets any DPC ribbon.
Why all or nothing? Because the Journeyman and Master's competitions would lack the same level of competition that they have in a full challenge, because there IS the chance that a novice CAN take a better picture than them on at least one occasion.
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09/03/2004 03:40:45 PM · #15 |
Originally posted by computerking:
We have Master's for 3+ Ribbons (Which is a REALLY low number, IMO), we should have Journeyman for 1-2 Ribbons, and Novice for No ribbons, PLUS a Newbie Challenge (Anyone on the site less than 6 months) AND the Fresh Fish Special Challenge(People who have entered less than 6 Challenges)... That should cover everyone, AND give the new folks a couple of extra chances to learn by trying...
And Only the Novice, Master, and Journeyman would get DPC ribbons. Or Nobody gets any DPC ribbon.
Why all or nothing? Because the Journeyman and Master's competitions would lack the same level of competition that they have in a full challenge, because there IS the chance that a novice CAN take a better picture than them on at least one occasion. |
thats alot of challenges...
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09/03/2004 03:47:25 PM · #16 |
| Oh come on. I mean seriously? It's not like we're playing for money here. What use is there to split up the competition? Where's the challenge? It's not supposed to be easy. It's not supposed to be an equal playing field. We're signed up on a site where the object is competition. It's a given that different people are going to come in from different backgrounds. A lot of people who just sign up are going to be better than people who've been around for a while. It's just the way it goes. If I'm going to win, I'm going to win, not be handed something. It's about aspiring to something higher. Not settling for something less. |
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09/03/2004 03:50:43 PM · #17 |
Originally posted by magicshutter:
I think it would kick ass for us people without ribbons to have a challenge that ribbon winners can't enter! |
I don't see the point. If you win a ribbon in the non-ribbon challenge, does that somehow make you a "master"? Do you keep weeding out for subsequent non-ribbon challenges (to make it fair) until everybody gets one? It took me 32 challenges and a lot of effort to win a ribbon. Was I suddenly a "master" that day? I won two more in the next six challenges, and might have another coming up. NOW am I a master? I only reached this point by competing with the best. To water down the challenges by removing the toughest competitors makes it less of a challenge, and diminishes the sense of achievement when you finally do break through. I don't see any point to a masters challenge either. In every challenge, you'll see a lot of familiar names near the top, so the ribbon winners already compete against each other every week.
I think a brown ribbon is a really bad idea. Why reward the worst photographs? I can't imagine anyone who would want such an embarrassment highlighted next to their name. On the other hand, some people might actually enter bad pics to compete for the brown (this means you, Macro Doucette), resulting in a lower-quality group of pictures to vote on. |
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09/03/2004 03:51:51 PM · #18 |
Originally posted by hanlomba:
Oh come on. I mean seriously? It's not like we're playing for money here. What use is there to split up the competition? Where's the challenge? It's not supposed to be easy. It's not supposed to be an equal playing field. We're signed up on a site where the object is competition. It's a given that different people are going to come in from different backgrounds. A lot of people who just sign up are going to be better than people who've been around for a while. It's just the way it goes. If I'm going to win, I'm going to win, not be handed something. It's about aspiring to something higher. Not settling for something less. |
Hey, I wasn't the one who came up with the Master's Cup. The SC's made a special challenge for people with 3 or more ribbons. It would be fair if other levels of Photographic experience had their own special challenge. WHy not? As you said, It's not like we're playing for money.
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09/03/2004 03:53:40 PM · #19 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
Originally posted by magicshutter:
I think it would kick ass for us people without ribbons to have a challenge that ribbon winners can't enter! |
I don't see the point. If you win a ribbon in the non-ribbon challenge, does that somehow make you a "master"? Do you keep weeding out for subsequent non-ribbon challenges (to make it fair) until everybody gets one? It took me 32 challenges and a lot of effort to win a ribbon. Was I suddenly a "master" that day? I won two more in the next six challenges, and might have another coming up. NOW am I a master? I only reached this point by competing with the best. To water down the challenges by removing the toughest competitors makes it less of a challenge, and diminishes the sense of achievement when you finally do break through. I don't see any point to a masters challenge either. In every challenge, you'll see a lot of familiar names near the top, so the ribbon winners already compete against each other every week.
I think a brown ribbon is a really bad idea. Why reward the worst photographs? I can't imagine anyone who would want such an embarrassment highlighted next to their name. On the other hand, some people might actually enter bad pics to compete for the brown (this means you, Macro Doucette), resulting in a lower-quality group of pictures to vote on. |
Understandable. The Brown Ribbon was more or less a joke. However, you became a Master the moment you gained your third ribbon, as per the Master Challenge rules.
Message edited by author 2004-09-03 15:53:57.
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09/03/2004 04:01:59 PM · #20 |
Just for the record...
The Novice and Journeyman levels I mentioned earlier are taken from basic Craftsmanship competitions, such as Costume creation or Weaponsmithing competitions at Rennaissance fairs and Sci-Fi conventions... If you've never entered a competition before, You are in the Novice level. Once you win once in that level, you are a Journeyman. Once you score a win in Journeyman, You're considered a Master. It is a system designed to encourage new people to enter competition, as well as to reward those who have won before.
So the concept has solid roots outside of the DPC arena, and didn't just jump outta my ass.
Tier Level competitions are a REALLY old concept.
Message edited by author 2004-09-03 16:02:43.
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09/03/2004 04:02:12 PM · #21 |
I think the categories need to be for the VOTERS, not the submitters!
Have three like Moron, Jerk, and Will Give ME a Ten. (C:
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09/03/2004 04:05:11 PM · #22 |
Originally posted by scalvert:
I think a brown ribbon is a really bad idea. Why reward the worst photographs? I can't imagine anyone who would want such an embarrassment highlighted next to their name. On the other hand, some people might actually enter bad pics to compete for the brown (this means you, Macro Doucette), resulting in a lower-quality group of pictures to vote on. |
Hey, I have a lot more than he does ... and didn't have to try as hard to get them, either. : )
The very last in any series gets a little extra highlighting than those a couple of places away (c.f. the NFL draft) ... if it's going to get a lousy vote it's sort of better if it's completely last.
Maybe we should have a competition for winners of a Brown ribbon where the photo still got three or more votes of 10. |
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09/03/2004 04:12:45 PM · #23 |
Originally posted by computerking:
Personally, I think that the Brown Ribbon should be a real ribbon, kinda like a 'E' for Effort? I can see it now, a new Icon, brown, ribbon shaped, but smeared downward, the DPC Symbol of Utter Crap...
However, I think it should be optional whether you accept such a dubious honor:)
I know I would... |
What you say has some merit to it. Say perhaps, the brown ribbon is posted on top. It would give others the option to go and give it some criticism, how to improve the shot, etc. Who knows, you could jump from Brown to Blue in one challenge!
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09/03/2004 04:21:55 PM · #24 |
I've been trying to avoid getting into a post Argument here at DPC, and the topic of whether to have lower-tier only challenges is just enough to make me dispel that aversion. Which is not good for my blood pressure or general stress level. So, as I said in the original Master Challenge post, I'm going to stop reading the forums for a while. I hope magicshutter's idea wins out, and that someday they have Novice and Journeyman level challenges.
For now, I'll concentrate on my camera, instead of my keyboard. I'll see you in the Challenge Ranks, guys!
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