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01/23/2003 08:14:14 AM · #51
that was the generic meaning of political
01/23/2003 09:49:04 AM · #52
Originally posted by Martin:

Plenty of winning pictures on this site have got very low scores from myself. Remember the tractor shot in the something old challenge, well I hated that shot and so I gave it a low score, not because I wanted to bugger up the voting but because I didn't like it. One mans treasure is another mans garbage and I really wish people like Mark and Karen would except that not everyone has the same tastes as them!!!


Accept, not except.
01/23/2003 10:06:14 AM · #53
Originally posted by paynekj:

What does intrigue me, however, is how you determine political bias? What photo are you seeing this bias in?


Please avoid public discussion of individual submissions while voting is in progress.

Thanks,
Terry
01/23/2003 10:08:11 AM · #54
Originally posted by David Ey:

If a photo shows obvious political bias, is it ok to vote accordingly?


Many artists try to convey a message (political or otherwise) with their art. To many, that is the very essence of art. When I see such a photograph I try (I'm not implying that I always succeed) to base my vote on how well the photographer conveyed their message rather than whether I agree with it. Of course, you are entitled to vote how you like.

-Terry
01/23/2003 10:16:07 AM · #55
Originally posted by Martin:

Plenty of winning pictures on this site have got very low scores from myself. Remember the tractor shot in the something old challenge, well I hated that shot and so I gave it a low score, not because I wanted to bugger up the voting but because I didn't like it. One mans treasure is another mans garbage and I really wish people like Mark and Karen would except that not everyone has the same tastes as them!!!


Hold on right there.
I accept there is a difference in taste. I am talking about a photo being rated as 1=VERY BAD. What is VERY BAD to you???
"I just don't like it", or,
"It isn't my style", or,
"It is another cliche.. because, after all, I am the Wealth of Knowledge and Experience incarnate", or
any other subjective reason?
So, you hate it subjectively, but it doesn't deserve a point or two or more technically?
I await your response.
01/23/2003 10:26:56 AM · #56
*In all areas of life, the people in the fat bit in the middle want the people on the ends to conform, and this site is no different.*

I love that, lisae. :-)
01/23/2003 10:39:45 AM · #57
To be honest, I'm lactose intolerant so I gave a 1 to all the Milk photos that gave me gas. I just think it was rude for them to have that effect on me.
01/23/2003 10:54:27 AM · #58
Originally posted by Karen Bryan:


Hold on right there.
I accept there . . .


thank you karen, that's exactly what i was trying to get at.
01/23/2003 10:57:29 AM · #59
a rating system that is really nice can be found at triggerstreet
01/23/2003 11:06:51 AM · #60
Originally posted by mbetea:

Originally posted by Karen Bryan:


Hold on right there.
I accept there . . .


thank you karen, that's exactly what i was trying to get at.


What does this mean?
01/23/2003 11:48:36 AM · #61
I think he loves you.
01/23/2003 11:57:03 AM · #62
Originally posted by Karen Bryan:

I accept there is a difference in taste. I am talking about a photo being rated as 1=VERY BAD. What is VERY BAD to you???


To me it is a photo that simply sucks. Bad/extremely boring/extremely common subject & bad composition & bad exposure & bad lighting & out of focus & sharpening bad & horrible post processing & no message at all. Photo's that are so bad that I am offended that somebody entered it and I had to look at it.
Pick 4 to 5 out of those and you'll probably receive a 1, 2 or 3.

1 This sucks and I am not going to tell you why. It is obvious that even the slightest study of tutorials, your manual and the challenge description could have made this better.
2 This sucks. Like 1, but accidentily there are some good elements in it that makes me not giving it a 1.
3 Way below average
4 is below average
5 is average
6 a little better as average
7 good but could be better with a little more attention to details
8 Good
9 Very Good
10 You are the winner

Usually I give like 1 or 2 tens, 1 to 5 nines, 5 to 20 eights, 15 to 35 sevens, a lot of sixes and fives, 10 to 20 fours, 2 to 10 three's, 0 to 10 two's and 0 to 3 ones.


01/23/2003 12:36:34 PM · #63
Originally posted by Azrifel:

... <badness vs goodness> ...


ditto
01/23/2003 12:51:53 PM · #64
Originally posted by Azrifel:

Originally posted by Karen Bryan:

I accept there is a difference in taste. I am talking about a photo being rated as 1=VERY BAD. What is VERY BAD to you???


To me it is a photo that simply sucks. Bad/extremely boring/extremely common subject & bad composition & bad exposure & bad lighting & out of focus & sharpening bad & horrible post processing & no message at all. Photo's that are so bad that I am offended that somebody entered it and I had to look at it.
Pick 4 to 5 out of those and you'll probably receive a 1, 2 or 3.

1 This sucks and I am not going to tell you why. It is obvious that even the slightest study of tutorials, your manual and the challenge description could have made this better.
2 This sucks. Like 1, but accidentily there are some good elements in it that makes me not giving it a 1.
3 Way below average
4 is below average
5 is average
6 a little better as average
7 good but could be better with a little more attention to details
8 Good
9 Very Good
10 You are the winner

Usually I give like 1 or 2 tens, 1 to 5 nines, 5 to 20 eights, 15 to 35 sevens, a lot of sixes and fives, 10 to 20 fours, 2 to 10 three's, 0 to 10 two's and 0 to 3 ones.


Thank you. This is what I am talking about. I agree totally with this. Now, I am not going to start another thread, or continue this one, on "what does each number in the scale mean to each person", but will comment on it as being reasonble.
For those who think this is foolish or like beating your heads against the wall, I am only trying to show how ludicrous it is to give a 1 to a photo that doesn't meet the above or similar description. Azrifel said it perfectly. Look at the top photos in each challenge, or even at those chosen for site favorites. Ask yourself as you peruse those given 1's and 2's. Do you honestly think it deserved that? If you were one of those that gave a 1 or 2, do you think it deserved that?
You might look at this as quibbling after not, but I am just trying to prove a point. If you are going to vote, at least vote fairly.
There are plenty of photos I don't like. But I rate them on their technical value. And there are plenty that are poorly executed, that I might give a bit of kudos on the idea or the subject.
I also don't wanna hear anymore about "conformity". Give me a break!
I am not looking for conformity. I am looking for people to be not just honest, but fair. Think of it more like Voting 101 rather than an effort to make you all the same. That is jibberish.
AND! Those that would call this petty are the first ones to jump on the band wagon when it happens to them. So, I am just asking that people think about it.
I think John's Critique Club will hopefully begin to take root in people's minds enough to make them think that way as they are voting. Even if you are not in the critique club, you must've rec'd a comment from a member of it by now. What does it say to you about how you look at things? If you are here to learn about photography, then learn about the many aspects of it - not just executing the shot, but analyzing it too.
This site is for fun and learning. What have you learned by slapping a 1 on a better deserving photo?
01/23/2003 12:59:08 PM · #65
Originally posted by Karen Bryan:

Originally posted by mbetea:

Originally posted by Karen Bryan:


Hold on right there.
I accept there . . .


thank you karen, that's exactly what i was trying to get at.


What does this mean?


what do you mean what does it mean?

i ment that, whether you personally like a submission or not, you should, as a voter, look at ALL aspects of the photo, then base your score on that. not just, "well i don't like it personally, so it's a crappy photo, lets give it a 2". so basically you said what i was wanting to.

or

if you ment why did i quote that part of your post, i didn't want to quote the whole thing and take up all that space, instead i used the first part of it, so people would know what post it was regarding.

01/23/2003 01:19:15 PM · #66
I have supported and will continue to support the idea of non-anonymous voting.

I have always felt that if I knew who was giving me my scores Icould better evaluate if their opinion was important enough to me to discuss their vote further, re-evaluate my approach to a subject or simply ignore them as too different from my view of photography to mean much to me.

I am not saying this apporach would eliminate 1,2 or 3 votes..but at least you could pick your battles better :-)
01/23/2003 01:29:48 PM · #67
Originally posted by Karen Bryan:


Hold on right there.
I accept there . . .


Originally posted by mbetea:


what do you mean what does it mean?

i ment that, whether you personally like a submission or not, you should, as a voter, look at ALL aspects of the photo, then base your score on that. not just, "well i don't like it personally, so it's a crappy photo, lets give it a 2". so basically you said what i was wanting to.



Okay. Just wanted to be sure. I make no assumptions. ;0)

Hokie: There is substance to that idea, and it is something I have pondered since I first heard you suggest it months ago.

Ben & Karmat: Things aren't always what they seem... LOL ..Your joke did not go unnoticed. ;0)
01/23/2003 01:36:48 PM · #68
I would love to see public voting also... probably just until my email box filled up tho...
01/23/2003 01:45:40 PM · #69
Originally posted by Karen Bryan:


I also don't wanna hear anymore about "conformity". Give me a break!
I am not looking for conformity. I am looking for people to be not just honest, but fair. Think of it more like Voting 101 rather than an effort to make you all the same. That is jibberish.


This is a very ironic paragraph! Asking people to stop talking about conformity means wanting them to conform to your view...

I know through a lot of experience that I'm an outlyer here. I give out higher scores than normal, but even on my elevated scale photos that rate in the top ten often seemed average to me, while photos I loved rank really low. There are many photos on this site where I am the only person who gave it a 9 or a 10. That's the reverse of the phenomenon we're talking about, but it has the same reason - I have a different point of view to most of the people on the site. I can easily understand a handful of people hating photos that most people like.

There isn't even much point saying you can be objective about the technical quality of a photo. Some people think if you follow all the "rules" technically, you're being boring and unimaginative. To them, photos that everyone else thinks are "good" objectively are really not good. I don't know how many people here are like that, but there are going to be a few, just because it's human nature.

Everyone has their own sense of what the voting scale means. The system is in place to average out all the various interpretations and tell us who was most popular. And it works! That's exactly the information we get, even with those few people who disagree entirely with the majority.
01/23/2003 02:05:28 PM · #70
Originally posted by mbete:

i ment that, whether you personally like a submission or not, you should, as a voter, look at ALL aspects of the photo, then base your score on that. not just, "well i don't like it personally, so it's a crappy photo, lets give it a 2".


I disagree with this entirely. The ONLY thing that matters -- to me -- is whether, as a voter, I like the image. Getting things "right" technically is certainly part of that but I simply detest some "technically perfect" shots and adore some that othgers would consider "technically imperfect", so clearly that is not all that matters.
01/23/2003 02:45:58 PM · #71
I don't want to defend every low score I give, so I don't want public voting. And when it is introduced, I wan't my PM to be turned off. I don't have time for discussion next to my work, my hobbies, the critique club, submitting, voting and other joys of life.
Don't expect an answer, my inbox is full enough without "why did you give a low score"-mail.


01/23/2003 03:02:33 PM · #72
Originally posted by lisae:

This is a very ironic paragraph! Asking people to stop talking about conformity means wanting them to conform to your view...


I knew this would happen. It is just taking away from the point to go on and on about grammer, syntax and hidden meanings.

This is just like playing an old Beatles record backwards to find out where they buried the "real Paul".

Apparently I have been unable to articulate my point well enough to put it across.

I will stop now.
01/23/2003 03:24:32 PM · #73
Take a really good image and none of this will matter. You will get into the top 10 no matter what. If your image scores low it probably didn't stack up against the competition. The quicker we all realize that the quicker we will become better photographers.

I have been here 3 weeks and have never heard so much complaining about the system. This is the best online comp out there. PERIOD. I have been to a lot of them. If you don't do good here, it is the images fault, not the vapor scorers or the borders, it is purely the images issue...

Flame me if you want, but stop the whining and complaining and grab your camera and take some darn images already. Stop blaming everything accept the obvious...

Dave
01/23/2003 03:27:13 PM · #74
Originally posted by Davenit:

Take a really good image and none of this will matter. You will get into the top 10 no matter what. If your image scores low it probably didn't stack up against the competition. The quicker we all realize that the quicker we will become better photographers.

I have been here 3 weeks and have never heard so much complaining about the system. This is the best online comp out there. PERIOD. I have been to a lot of them. If you don't do good here, it is the images fault, not the vapor scorers or the borders, it is purely the images issue...

Flame me if you want, but stop the whining and complaining and grab your camera and take some darn images already. Stop blaming everything accept the obvious...

Dave


*smooches dave*
01/23/2003 03:29:55 PM · #75
well said, Dave :)


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