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01/22/2003 03:28:50 PM · #1
I checked out the votes for the last challenge and it seems there are a half a dozen or so members who seem to think it's funny to vote down (one's two's and three's) on even the most impressive pictures.

That is so bloody juvenile, and I'm surprised their votes are even marked up.

Granted, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but this isn't an opinion, it's a deliberate attempt to bugger up the results.

What on Earth is going on?
01/22/2003 03:31:14 PM · #2
Originally posted by Marklane:

I checked out the votes for the last challenge and it seems there are a half a dozen or so members who seem to think it's funny to vote down (one's two's and three's) on even the most impressive pictures.

That is so bloody juvenile, and I'm surprised their votes are even marked up.

Granted, everyone is entitled to their own opinion but this isn't an opinion, it's a deliberate attempt to bugger up the results.

What on Earth is going on?


Mark,

Keep in mind all votes are monitored. Users whose voting patters show a clear attempt to manipulate the results are subject to having their votes ignored.

-Terry
01/22/2003 03:32:57 PM · #3
if they are doing that to everyone, it all evens out then, so the results don't change, they just get more depressing

01/22/2003 03:36:18 PM · #4

Mark,

Keep in mind all votes are monitored. Users whose voting patters show a clear attempt to manipulate the results are subject to having their votes ignored.

-Terry[/quote]

Just seems a bit weird, Tel, that some of the works of art that made up the Landscape challenge were given 2's, 3's or sometimes even 1's!

That's just bloody piss-taking and an insult to the photographer.


Just my view, mate.
01/22/2003 03:38:15 PM · #5
I agree with you.. and you echo what I and others have been saying from the get go. But, who am I?
01/22/2003 03:41:17 PM · #6
Karen
01/22/2003 03:43:19 PM · #7
Originally posted by Marklane:

Just seems a bit weird, Tel, that some of the works of art that made up the Landscape challenge were given 2's, 3's or sometimes even 1's!

That's just bloody piss-taking and an insult to the photographer.


Just my view, mate.


I agree that there's a problem. The question is, what can we do about it?

-Terry
01/22/2003 03:44:24 PM · #8
Plenty of winning pictures on this site have got very low scores from myself. Remember the tractor shot in the something old challenge, well I hated that shot and so I gave it a low score, not because I wanted to bugger up the voting but because I didn't like it. One mans treasure is another mans garbage and I really wish people like Mark and Karen would except that not everyone has the same tastes as them!!!
01/22/2003 03:46:24 PM · #9
Originally posted by Marklane:

...some of the works of art that made up the Landscape challenge were given 2's, 3's or sometimes even 1's!

That's just bloody piss-taking and an insult to the photographer.

Just my view, mate.

So it is, but then I consider the source and grant it little weight. I think it reflects on the voter, not the photographer.
01/22/2003 03:50:13 PM · #10
Originally posted by ClubJuggle:

Originally posted by Marklane:

Just seems a bit weird, Tel, that some of the works of art that made up the Landscape challenge were given 2's, 3's or sometimes even 1's!

That's just bloody piss-taking and an insult to the photographer.


Just my view, mate.


I agree that there's a problem. The question is, what can we do about it?

-Terry



Here's my suggestion: Can you tell who is giving these silly scores?

If so, send 'em packin'! This is a site for grown-ups, or at least it would be nice to think it is.



Message edited by author 2003-01-22 17:11:18.
01/22/2003 03:51:24 PM · #11
You never know, Konador. Maybe she is just pretending to be karen and has us all fooled!
01/22/2003 04:06:17 PM · #12
Martin,
Not sure which tractor shot you're referring to (there were two) but they were both worthy winners (IMO). You marked them down because you "didn't like them". Did you give a reason/comment when you scored low? I think a hit-and-run vote is a kick in the teeth.

You might not have liked the tractors, but the composition and actual photograph was near as dammit flawless and undeserving of a low vote from you or anyone else.

I don't like dogs, but I'd give someone between 7 and 10 if their picture of Fido was compositionally correct and basically a damn good picture.
01/22/2003 04:07:28 PM · #13
i agree with mark and karen. maybe one way to solve it is have the voter vote on 2 different aspects of it. one vote for technical and another for aesthetic. maybe then have the two scores averaged out? i don't know how hard this would be to code of if possible. but i think if we stick to only one vote, people should put a little more thought into voting besides: well i didn't like it, so i scored it low. there's a lot of artists (painters, film directors, musicians, etc) that personally i don't care for what they're doing. but i can see their technique and execution is good. there are lots of artists in the world that barely get mentioned but are some of the greatest creators.

then again, i haven't smoked any crack today, so i could be totally wrong on all this.

matt

Message edited by author 2003-01-22 16:12:10.
01/22/2003 04:20:22 PM · #14
Matt, I think thats a superb idea.
01/22/2003 04:25:07 PM · #15
If I see a picture I dont like, I will score it low. Obviously people dont have a problem doing the same to my entries. I'm not crying about it though. I thought my entry this week was worth a 7. It's at 5 right now. Oh well. I dont come in first place in a "FREE" challange. Everyone is entitled to their own opinions. ESPECIALLY with an OPEN challange.
01/22/2003 04:26:55 PM · #16
Why is everyone so opposed to freedom of expression? We have a scale of 1 - 10 and the freedom to use it as we see fit. I do not dictate to others what they may like or why, and I expect them to acknowledge my right to my opinion as well.
Remember that freedom is essentially the right of the minority to be free of the oppression of the majority. Granting them freedom does not obligate me to respect their opinion, merely their right to express it.
Would it make any difference if the scale went from 3-10? 5-10? How about 8-18 -- then even a mediocre photo can snag a 10!

First they came for the people who voted a 1, and I said nothing, for I never understood what they could possibly be seeing. Then they came for those who voted a 2, and I said nothing, because I usually disagreed with them anyway....and when they finally came for me, there was no one left to speak up at all...
--adapted from a "lefty" fable
01/22/2003 04:41:00 PM · #17
Amen to the General! I don't think I've given any of the winning photos a 1 -- but I wouldn't be surprised to find I'd voted some of them 4s and 5s. By the same token, I don't think I've given any bottom of the heap scores 10s, but I wouldn't be surprised to find I'd given them 7s and 6s.

In my case, when I see some of the winning shots I think, "How pedestrian." Just because they're technically sound (both in terms of camera use and composition) doesn't mean they do anything for ME. Others, however, disagree with my own personal taste, and vote the shot higher than I do.

There have also been times when I've given perfectly acceptable photos 1s because, quite simply, no matter how I looked at the photo I couldn't justify it in terms of the challenge. (And there have been plenty of arguments over this too....) What happens if I vote this photo a 1, but plenty of other people look past the challenge aspect and vote it a 10 because it's a simply amazing shot? It's happened before...

There are plenty of reasons past "trollish" behaviour for people voting outside the "norm" -- as long as they aren't doing it across the board (something the site has procedures for dealing with) let's just realize that it happens....
01/22/2003 04:48:01 PM · #18
Bravo again to the General! Freedom of expression in voting is a darned sight more important than whether the photographer gets upset.
01/22/2003 04:51:15 PM · #19
LOL@Konador..
Originally posted by Konador:

Karen
01/22/2003 04:54:56 PM · #20
I don't think we should tamper with the voting process either. I believe it would only affect the score averages very minimally and it would be a fairly equal adjustment across the board, which would have no real affect on the outcome.

I do agree that there are probalby people out there who attempt to maliciously sway the vote. Let them have their fun too. Don't worry about a few oddballs and keep making your best photographs :)

01/22/2003 04:59:25 PM · #21
Sounds good, John (ever the peacemaker).

Anyway, G'night, I'm off to bed (LOL). Great little discussion this one, no doubt will continue on thru the night (UK TIME) while I'm knocking out the zzzzz's!

Message edited by author 2003-01-22 17:14:07.
01/22/2003 05:18:22 PM · #22
Originally posted by jmsetzler:

I don't think we should tamper with the voting process either. I believe it would only affect the score averages very minimally and it would be a fairly equal adjustment across the board, which would have no real affect on the outcome.

I do agree that there are probalby people out there who attempt to maliciously sway the vote. Let them have their fun too. Don't worry about a few oddballs and keep making your best photographs :)


I agree, setz. I am no mathematician by any stretch, but it seems to me that it is happening consistently. Therefore, if it is consistent, it should be statistically sound. I agree, I have seen some awesome shots get what I think are undeserved ones. Likewise, I have seen shots that I didn't like/couldn't find merit in get 9's and 10's. So be it. For my entries, I have to say that I finished where I needed to relative to the other entries. yes, on occasion, I say "That beat mine????" but if I look at the comments and the pictures objectively, I usually end up agreeing.

It is a shame that there are people who say, "1, 1, 1, 2, ,3 1, 2, etc." but I can not think of a workable solution that allows each and every person to have input. All of the solutions I can think of limit access to the judging of the pictures. The one solution or change I think I could live with, and not find a great deal of fault with, is if my pictures are tagged with a special "vote this a 9 or 10 (I will allow for you not to like it, thus the 9)" button, and the rest have a 7 or below. We don't need 8. :-)
01/22/2003 05:21:38 PM · #23
Originally posted by karmat:

The one solution or change I think I could live with, and not find a great deal of fault with, is if my pictures are tagged with a special "vote this a 9 or 10 (I will allow for you not to like it, thus the 9)" button, and the rest have a 7 or below. We don't need 8. :-)

Why are you picking on my favorite number? Can't I have 8, so I can at least get the red ribbon?
01/22/2003 05:24:26 PM · #24
I have problems with almost anyone who gives out a 1... yes it's on the scale, that doesn't mean it should be used very often. It's a number that should be reserved only when you want to offend your parakeet by putting it on the bottom of the birdcage. I just don't see that many shots submitted on here that poor. It at least takes some effort to take the photo and submit it.

But I'm an overall positive person... many people on here are not it appears.
01/22/2003 05:29:47 PM · #25
I still believe that there should be a technical score and an aesthetics score. Each is a very different aspect of a photo and is the only fair way to critique it. Thus freedom to express your likes and dislikes is directed towards a specific aspect of a photo. A photo could be very beautiful aesthetically but terrible in technique and visa versa. If we are to learn from our peers (isnít that the purpose of this site?) then a two score based system is the only way photos should be critiqued.
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